RedBeard

You have a nice Johnny. I'll have to eventually get some vids of myself too. The only thing I'll say is that he should have punished your jumpins a lot more than he was. I saw a lot of plain ol' airdashing after coins or whatnot which he should be anti-airing on reaction.

As far as this goes, I agree that he actually is underrepresented. As far as why I think he's a bad tournament character...He has a few bad matchups against faster characters/Slayer. He's pretty awful defensively, takes tons of damage, big fat hitbox, and once anyone in the game is rushing him down it's somewhat hard for him to get out of it and get proper spacing again. It's also no good that a lot of his mixups become really obvious when you have more experience against him, though he did gain good options in AC. And while he can be kind of annoying for higher tier characters, he's not annoying enough to actually have an advantage on them. Doesn't help that characters he gets owned by(Jam, Slayer) are overly played. Though what you said about this being a problem from XX and thus likely being more related to under rep rings true as well. Then again, a lot of Axl's core mechanics have stayed the same game to game. But again, that's just how I see it. Not saying that's how it is.

True, but to begin with I wasn't really counting SBO. Mostly because both Kakyuu and Shuuto hardly bagged any wins for their team from what I saw. Kakyuu beat Yukinose, and I can't remember clearly if Shuuto beat anybody? Perhaps Axl is underrepresented, but IMO he's just not a good tournament character, and I think out of the entire cast he's perhaps only above like ABA, Chipp, OS, and Potemkin(Pre-AC) for lack of tournament placement. But again this is only out of the tournaments I've read results for online and obviously doesn't cover everything so meh. Just my opinion, I can't remember seeing Axl win any singles tournies like ever. I saw Mochida(I think that was his name? He played yellow/purple Axl) win a few in Slash, and Kakyuu used to rape at the beginning of XX A-Cho tournies...but other than that, nothing really.

Like Mike Z said, Bridget with his 5P bug thing retains properties of what he was doing before he returns to a neutral state and taunts. So if you did a combo into a knockdown with OS and then threw Bridget during the taunt on his wakeup, the combo meter would not reset because of the 5P bug. Pretty sure Final Showdown has a combo vid on youtube where he shows this glitch to do an extended combo

I disagree. Balance wise: The games are pretty much equal. Almost everyone in Slash is competetive, and literally every character in AC is competetive. Sure, the top tier in AC has some retarded ass shit, but people often understate Ky/Sol's power in regards to the rest of the cast in Slash because they don't SEEM broken in the traditional sense, when in fact they were considerably more powerful than the rest of the cast. Design wise: Games are pretty much equal. Both of them fail for different reasons. Slash being boring/watered down/made the easiest characters the best so playing anything else is kinda pointless. AC being too much damage per combo, and a few too many stupid options with some characters. People seem to equate doing too much damage as a game being unbalanced. I don't know why, they have nothing to do with each other. The amount of damage you do has no bearing on balance. The amount of damage you do off of specific options in relation to the rest of the cast is. It just so happens that nearly everybody in AC has pretty good damage/options. I also don't recall Axl ever really having a good tournament placing record in any Guilty Gear game, ever. Not that he sucks but he seems like a bad tournament character to me(Much like ABA/Chipp/Potemkin(before AC) are bad tournament characters). Just my opinion though.

Basically for Counterhits... They cause extra "stun" meter for the dizzy guage. I forget the specific modifier. There is additional hit stun ONLY for the move, or part of that move, that connected as a CH. The amount of additional hitstun generally depends on the attack level of the move, though there are special exceptions noted in the framedata. As an example, if I CH you with the first hit of Axl's 2H, the second hit of it is completely unaffected by the CH properties of the first hit. Counterhits also increase hit stop by a certain number of frames, not sure if the exact amount, and I believe it's dependant on the attack level. I could have forgotten something, not sure.

Pretty much just more damage. If you're in range to do c.S instead of 5K in most situations, you should.

Just a small thing to note that I totally forgot to add Anji's Enkasu in the first part like a year ago. I completely forgot about it, though it's somewhat hard to do. Just a late jump j.P->j.P->j.P->j.D->Enkasu. No dash or anything necessary. Sorry about that.

Just to correct here, 6Ping Chipp is pretty much useless. If 6P doesn't clash with j.H, 6P loses. At least in my experience it almost never wins unless you time it frame perfect which just isn't worth the risk against Chipp. If 6P clashes his second hit is too fast for you to do anything but block anyways. Doing anything but early MF Upper LV1 is pretty much pointless against Chipp. The idea would be to get him to land in a position where you can stop him from jumping all over the place. Trying to fight him in the air or anti-air him is almost pointless outside of MF Uppers during frametraps and whatnot. Agreed. It might work really well for a while, but a blocked one is a free CH pretty much. Then again if you have 50% tension saved you can do some pretty serious damage to Chipp and if you repeatedly 2H him or reversal OD or something you can make him a little more cautious about going crazy with his extended strings. Nah most of that was right, though I don't think Johnny can 1 KO Chipp in AC very well. Generally takes 2-3 hits landed depending on if he bursts well and whatnot. It's hard to get Chipp to stand in place let alone build his guard meter when it's so easy for him to take to the air and GTFO of whatever you're doing, or reversal FRC etc. Chipp just owns your shit with his normals pretty much everywhere, so like 4r5 said you kinda need to lay back and make him come to you. You're not gonna catch a good Chipp, simple as that, and he'll beat you up pretty badly for trying. Build some tension via walking and wait for him to do something. Dodge with forward and back dashes until you get into a decent situation. Don't be afraid to just BLOCK Chipp, this is absolutely key. There are going to be many situations where your best option is to block him and punish his next move. Throwing out random pokes is useless, he will just kick your ass for doing it. Don't expect to hit with the majority of normals you toss out. MF Upper is decent anti-air but you should hold FD block every time you attempt it incase of a clash. The match is notoriously difficult to play because you HAVE to capitalize ALL of your hits and play a waiting game. Chipp controls the pace of the match completely, but that's kinda the key...Chipp can't fuck up his pace either or you punish him big time for it. He can't screw up or get predicted or he's going to get nailed. Even with how annoying it is to play, it's 6-4 at worst. There are times when you just won't catch a break and Chipp will just run all over you and make you feel like a scrub. It happens, and you might get the sense that the match is hopeless in that sense but it's really not, you just have to play it a lot different than most of Johnny's other matches.

It's GENERALLY easy because it doesn't give Zappa anything particularly devastating or difficult to deal with as far as Johnny goes, whereas the ghost and dog present far bigger problems due to zoning...which is generally what Johnny isn't good against. Sure, it's possible for Zappa to get all nasty with the Sword, but that's the case with anything. Sol can technically get all nasty on me without tension, but it doesn't mean it's a great situation for him. The sword has some decent mixups/damage/pokes, but as far as the 3 summons go it's most definitely his weakest against Johnny, because it forces him to pretty much poke and get close to Johnny and that's what Johnny WANTS to do. Whereas with the dog and ghosts he gets zoning, and projectiles, both of which Johnny is bad against. Maybe "stupid easy" is the wrong way to put it in terms of the match, but in regards to the other summons it really is. I'd moreso say the sword doesn't do anything particularly dangerous that isn't standard and it's pretty easy to trade with/get rid of, or even lock Zappa down while he has it. If he gets the dog or ghosts it becomes a lot more difficult to keep him in place, and they give Johnny much bigger problems in neutral situations as well. I'm open to hearing opinions on why the Sword should be considered more difficult, I've personally never had any problems with it, and in most matches I see it doesn't stay out that long against Johnny because it's too easy for Johnny to trade or even beat him up close with the Sword. Compared to the ghost/dog, it's pretty easy.

Hmm...actually, RK's f.S stuffs most of Johnny's pokes insanely well for some reason. Tossing out 6H with Johnny is risky, and will allow Robo to horsie him, or begin his air missile spam shit for free on whiff. 2K on RKs part also stops Johnny in his tracks pretty well in a lot of cases(kills his 5K in particular, and even most of his pokes because 2K is quick). The problem is that it's on Johnny to advance on Robo-Ky because Robo-Ky turtles better...and if RK is playing defensive, Johnny doesn't have that many great options to get in safely. I think turtling with Robo-Ky and aiming for a knockdown while tossing pads down is a generally good idea. While Johnny getting a level 2 does decent damage, it's nowhere near devastating anymore. Slayer can do just as hard hitting combos off of random hits. Johnny needs to waste damage by just coining them in order to achieve decent damage, putting you both back in a neutral situation after a successful mixup of some kind. Then he needs to somehow get in...again, and hit you with something to do some damage, and you need to not burst him at a bad time...all for him to do about 180 damage to Robo-Ky. Not fun. Edit) Guardian: You can combo RK after a 2D with a LV2 MF low. Just takes a slight delay. Only VE, MI, and SL cannot be combo'd after a 2D with LV2 MF Low

Saving this from pruning, though most of the information is outdated, there were some quality posts in this thread that still apply to AC somewhat...until we can determine what needs to be saved it shouldn't be pruned!

They'll generally drop like rocks after blocking any of your long range things in the air, but the important thing they achieve if blocked is wasting a hell of a lot of their tension(assuming they hit twice) and putting you back in a neutral situation, which in at least half of his matchups is good for Axl.

6H to bait fuujin is a bad idea, because like you said it has strike invul frames on startup(1-12F)...and 6H has a very short active window(2F). So the chances of you whiffing it and him wailing on you for it is somewhat decent. Problem being if he does nothing he has a fairly large window to punish you from 6H's recovery...and you have to pre-emptively use 6H before he even does anything for it to work. So while it's a good punish if you read the shit out of him, it's pretty risky. There are safer ways to bait/punish Fuujin. Poke->Coin is safe from H Fuujin. Kinda hard to punish on reaction, but at the very least you should be able to block. 2K(and actually a lot of different pokes) is actually an option select of sorts against a reversal happy Anji, because it only has a recovery of 4F(7F max if you hit on the first active frame). Fuujin takes 20F to even hit, so you should be safe to block it no matter what. But you can also throw him out of his strike invul frames after his wakeup throw invincibility wears off, or anytime between 9F-20F you're free to throw him and anytime between 13F-20F you're able to hit him.

Well, IMO, what it comes down to is... Train yourself to have impeccable offense/execution of your highest damage combos and tricky setups/basic mixup game, then play opponents who also do this and you will learn to defend against them. I think a big part of the problem with most people is they just get lazy and don't complete their training. If you're not FRCing like second nature, or you're not hitting your reversal safe okizeme 95% etc, you need to hit training mode more. The best way for both you and your friends to improve is to finish learning offense before you begin learning defense, which you will naturally pick up by playing other good players.

I didnt see this til now, kinda late but: DC didn't put the 5K in for 3 reasons. 1. Distancing, he didn't want more pushback in the corner, 2. Height. May is really light and hitting her too high with 5K 5H limits your combo options becaaauusee... 3. He didn't plan to jump install anything because he was going to do random air poke->falling D->rejump combo...or according to you just falling D in this case, so there was no point in him adding in the kick. Generally the rejump combos did slightly more damage than just jump installing as well.

C'mon man, you can't of seriously just said "not leave gaps in your pressure strings" as JOHNNY. Every time he tosses a poke and MCs it, it's a gap. Or a coin. Anything, and Axl can 623P it. Most of Johnny's lows have ass range except 236S. 214 counters aren't useless either. They're better for stopping air comeins if he doesn't have time to 2S. Axl is just a really shitty/annoying match, but at least when you hit him you're going to seriously mess him up. His long range turtling is really hard to get past, you basically have to make a guess and hope you're right. Go for knockdowns instead of huge damage because you don't want to get pushed back out.

Just to add to that...I found that back during late XX/early #R when I was missing DB it was from hitting characters too high with 5K. Make sure they drop as low as possible generally before you use it or the DB will whiff no matter how quickly you do it. It's also character specific. For example, hitting Sol with DBT->DB is far more precise and annoying...and you have to get a feel for your max distance on it too. I'd reccomend starting with easy characters like Dizzy, Slayer, and Chipp.

You're saying Zappa's 2S is a bad poke and is only good if he has you under immediate pressure, which is true, but I'm not sure why this would be a counterpoint against Zappa because it's unlikely he'll use 2S as a poke. I don't even see 2S used much anymore, he should generally start his repressure with punches and kicks. The problem is that unless you're a mind reader or the ONLY thing your opponent spams is f.S, you're not going to be 6Ping it with any consistency. It's not that I'm getting hit by Zappa's f.S during my 6P, it's that I'm not using it much period because unless I predict the shit out of him it's not really a good idea. Johnny's 6P beats tons of things, but the problem is that most of the time it requires you to A. be in a good spot and B. predict the opponent. Good spot is not likely when Zappa outranges you and zones you with ghosts. 6P stuffing f.S also only works if you get into Johnny's sweet spot which is not easy against Zappa. Also I have no idea what you mean about Zappa tossing a ghost being a bad idea at mid range. What reliable options does Johnny have against Zappa's 236S for example? It is slow. 5H comes out in 12F. MFL2 Mid and High come out in 10, and Low comes out in 11. That's a pretty slow counter to execute, unless you think 5H is a fast poke. Why in god's name would Zappa throw a ghost if he's being locked down in the corner while he has ghosts? OD, I could understand, or DAA, but ghosting in the middle is hella random. I think it's more likely that he would jump and j.H quickly as Johnny has very little that can stop that. Let alone him being locked down while he has ghosts in the corner is somewhat unlikely. The combo you listed isn't even optimal. That's 50% tension for damage you could have otherwise obtained for free and recoined in the process. Again, this argument is assuming you predict Zappa perfectly. It's not my preference because it's unreliable, especially so against Zappa. I would rather toss out level 2 when I'm sure it's going to connect than throw it out on a gamble.(Not to mention avoid Proration) Main problem being it doesn't really get you anywhere. You just kinda gain tension while he runs away and gets his ghost back, looking for an opportunity to rush in. It's a bad situation to be in, regardless. The point is that Zappa doesn't start his pressure with ghost moves. Ghost Projectile FRC->Dash->any punch or kick-> blah? My point is he has plenty of normals while in ghost mode that do not rely on the ghosts being there immediately. When I say Ghosts are a problem, I mean the Ghost summon in general, not just the Ghost pokes and projectiles. To each their own I guess! I play against a decent Zappa, and most of the things you describe to me would not work with any kind of consistency. I mean no offense by that. Which Zappa do you play against? On occaision and on a prediction? Sure, they're decent options if I happen to read my opponent, but generally I don't like relying on gambles(IE wasting level 2's, throwing out ODs at odd spots, Jackhounding from afar) because most of those options cost you a level 2 MF, or tension, both of which Johnny needs desperately for both mixups and his ASSURED options to do big damage in AC. Tossing out gambles means you're tossing your other options out the window, and if that gamble doesn't work it's an enormous waste. Zappa I play against never throws all the ghosts at once, it's wasteful.

^This. Anything you do is risky at the start so waiting for him to make a move is ideal. Reason being that a backdash may result in an HS IH waiting for you. Doing any poke can wind up with an S IH trade which is most definitely worse for you than it is for him because if you get knocked down, you're in for a world of shit. Without tension in a neutral situation, there isn't as much to fear from Eddie at match start...so I think it's best to be cautious.

Hmm ok well just some responses I have to that in general. 1.) I'm slightly confused by your statement here. Zappa shouldn't be trying low pokes at range anyways because he has no considerable low pokes with the ghost at range. Most of them are meant for close range abuse. 2.) While 6Ping a Ghost f.S is certainly an option, I wouldn't call it..super common or anything because you really have to predict it's coming and do it at the EXACT same time he does his f.S, and if you guess wrong you may eat a ghost projectile which is what puts Johnny in SUPER deep shit. I also wouldn't say this option even remotely shuts down Zappa's f.S, as it will beat pretty much every other poke Johnny has. 3.) I am generally against any kind of strategy involving LV2 eating through projectile based pressure, because it's unreliable(such as the argument of MFing Sol through Gunflames which is a huge gamble). MF, even level 2, isn't that fast where it's easy to LV2 projectiles on reaction, and this is certainly not an option while you're being pressured or while he's far away, it would only really work if you're in decent proximity to him and he tosses out a ghost. Another problem would but that unless you're near the corner, MF2Mid isn't netting you anything and MF2Low has somewhat short range/not good hitbox for beating projectiles. 4.) Which is true, and is generally what I do to gain tension, but you're also not gaining any kind of advantage by doing this except gaining tension. I also don't get the throw part. It's not like if you IB each ghost you get to throw him for free :p. In my experience, even when you get up to him you're not on any considerable advantage. 5.) His repressure works fine, not sure what you're talking about. His Ghost pressure, aside from like corner Dog pressure, is the tightest pressure he has. 6.) I never use level 3, ever personally. The only time I use it is when I accidentally get it via my opponent not blocking my coin pressure. Just preference though as I prefer my coins for other things instead of aiming for level 3.

Pretty much 5-5 unless Ruu is involved because he does especially badass runaway. Johnny=better damage, more dangerous ground game. Bridget=Runaway zoning stuff that Johnny can't really punish too well, crap damage, better pokes. 5.5-4.5 Bridget could be accurate I dunno, they both suck so it can be pretty even in AC. Just my opinion.

No, no, no...almost everything I read in this post is untrue. I played this matchup a real lot, and I can safely say nearly all of what you wrote is untrue. To try and be brief: 5H is a horrible poke for JO in most all cases. It comes out incredibly slow, formerly had 1 but now 2 active frames(so any move with even minor invincibility causes it to whiff), and it's GOD AWFUL on whiff. You have like a full half second to punish him. Pretty much all of Bridgets Slashes will own it. Bridget ouranges Johnny, not the other way around. 5H is for pressure like 90% of the time or baiting a CH, not outpoking someone. 6P debate is useless, Bridget is not doing any obvious 6Pable jumpins. Bridget is safe air to ground. You were too vague aboue air to air...pokewise Johnny's j.S kills almost everything Bridget has in the air but his manueverability just doesn't allow Johnny to really hit with it so meh. Johnny's j.H is perfectly anti-airable. Proper spacing is almost impossible to achieve in matchplay, especially so in Bridget's case because generally Bridget is controlling the spacing of the match due to superior zoning/range. No idea where you get this idea. It's a good air-ground move but it is certainly punishable. Chipp's j.H on the other hand is pretty much 100% impossible to beat at any range with standard anti-air. Johnny's is not. You're right I don't want to be zoned, but in fighting games it tends to be in favor of the ZONER and not the person being zoned. Johnny has very few options for dealing with zoning except superjumping and doing random air crap to try to get near you(DB, KJ). 5H MC or 5H->Coin does not shut Bridget down. It's not even that good. 6K is killed by most of Bridgets pokes/zoning. Not bad in pressure strings at all but pokewise on the ground, and even as anti-air, it's not very good.

Millia is and always has been Axl's worst match pretty much. Jam is pretty bad too. Hum, I don't see Baiken as a bad matchup though I've never had problems with her before. SHE has to be careful playing Axl because throwing out careless counters will wind up with HER being countered. There's also the fact that Axl's improved long range makes her need to be a lot more cautious when jumping from far away. You can pretty easily harrass her at long range and then just be ready to counter the superman. And again, for 25% tension Axl does TONS of damage to her and knocks down. The main reason Axl is bad against Jam is that she is excellent at getting past his long range game and she ruins his shit straight out once she's on him. Millia is Axl's worst nightmare because like Josh said, the pin kills everything Axl has. It comes out amazingly fast and stuffs like all of his long range. Just to shorten things, sorry if it's vague but: Millia kills Axl at long range Millia DESTROYS THE SHIT out of Axl up close, no contest Once Millia gets her mixups rolling it's next to impossible for Axl to really escape. Most all of her pressure is reversal safe and she can screw you for jumping or backdashing, all while mixing you up. Millia can FB Disc out of a LOT of Axl's pressure, and even if you wind up CHing her out of it she will probably wind up comboing you into knockdown. At the very best you block her FB disc and get forced into her pressure. I'm unsure if the projectile counter wins against the Disc since it hits twice, I doubt it. Millia does good damage vs. Axl and knocks back down off of all of her random mixups. The only real advantage for Axl in the matchup is that he does tons of damage to her for 25% tension, and will prolly knock her down. Then if he manages to mix her up again, then he wins the round. Still a horrid horrid match. The match is better in some ways in AC than it was in Slash or #R(Axl is a better character in AC), but it's worse in some ways also(Millia is better defensively making Axl's hope of actually starting an offense on her much harder whereas if he actually got lucky and knocked her down in #R/Slash he could get something going pretty easy and since Rensen added Guard Balance he could get her to flashing guage VERY fast.)

Millia is and always has been Axl's worst match pretty much. Jam is pretty bad too. Hum, I don't see Baiken as a bad matchup though I've never had problems with her before. SHE has to be careful playing Axl because throwing out careless counters will wind up with HER being countered. There's also the fact that Axl's improved long range makes her need to be a lot more cautious when jumping from far away. You can pretty easily harrass her at long range and then just be ready to counter the superman. And again, for 25% tension Axl does TONS of damage to her and knocks down. The main reason Axl is bad against Jam is that she is excellent at getting past his long range game and she ruins his shit straight out once she's on him. Millia is Axl's worst nightmare because like Josh said, the pin kills everything Axl has. It comes out amazingly fast and stuffs like all of his long range. Just to shorten things, sorry if it's vague but: Millia kills Axl at long range Millia DESTROYS THE SHIT out of Axl up close, no contest Once Millia gets her mixups rolling it's next to impossible for Axl to really escape. Most all of her pressure is reversal safe and she can screw you for jumping or backdashing, all while mixing you up. Millia can FB Disc out of a LOT of Axl's pressure, and even if you wind up CHing her out of it she will probably wind up comboing you into knockdown. At the very best you block her FB disc and get forced into her pressure. I'm unsure if the projectile counter wins against the Disc since it hits twice, I doubt it. Millia does good damage vs. Axl and knocks back down off of all of her random mixups. The only real advantage for Axl in the matchup is that he does tons of damage to her for 25% tension, and will prolly knock her down. Then if he manages to mix her up again, then he wins the round. Still a horrid horrid match. The match is better in some ways in AC than it was in Slash or #R(Axl is a better character in AC), but it's worse in some ways also(Millia is better defensively making Axl's hope of actually starting an offense on her much harder whereas if he actually got lucky and knocked her down in #R/Slash he could get something going pretty easy and since Rensen added Guard Balance he could get her to flashing guage VERY fast.)