Silius

Since you're asking about Tager specifically, maybe this should be moved to the Tager part of the forum? Anyways, you spammed certain moves too much, you lacked familiarity with your own moves and you did no combos. That's the gist of it. The others have covered the rest, so I can go a bit more indepth on the beginner tips. Gigantic Tager Driver (360 A & B grabs): 360A isn't invincible from the start and doesn't grab the opponent right away. But it is invincible up till the point the grab becomes active. If you delay the 360A by holding down the A button you won't be invincible during the delay. 360B is similar to 360A, except it has no invulnerability, but it's faster and deals more damage. It also grabs the opponent automatically when you delay it, unlike the 360A. Use your 360A & B intelligently, spamming them will usually lead into the opponent knocking you out of them and starting a combo. Use them for example when the opponent has done a move with long recovery or if you know that your grabs will come out faster than the opponents attack, alt. if you know the invulnerability from 360A will protect you. A common and basic trick is to make your opponent to block by say attacking them with 1-2 5A's and then doing a 360A or B, it is also often done after a blocked forward A. Try to spice it up by sometimes delaying your input (thus resulting in no purple !! coming up). I the opponent starts to try and escape the grabs by jumping, perform an Atomic Collider. Anti-air options: Tager has 3 ground-to-air options. The most common ones are his down C and Atomic Collider (both have some invulnerability versus air attacks), his 2A is tricky to use and is very situational, so I'll leave that out for now. Atomic Collider can't be blocked (since it's a grab) but it's slower than his down C and thus usually requires some forsight or very quick reactions. His down C has a good vertical hitbox, has to be barrier blocked in the air and can lead into solid combos, so it's usually the move you go to for anti-air. Keep in mind that if you miss with these attacks the opponent will have time to punish you, so don't spam them, use them when you feel that you know they'll hit. Sledge: Again, not a move to be spammed, but can be very handy if used properly. There are 2 versions of the Sledge, A and B. The one that sees the most use is Sledge B since it moves Tager a lot farther than the A version. The good thing about Sledge is that it goes through the opponents projectile attacks. Tager is however vulnerable during the end of the move if you miss your opponent with it, so refrain from doing it full-screen and at situations when the opponent can punish you for using it incorrectly. Gadget Finger: Usually a combo ender. Magnetises the opponent and drops them right in front of you (where you want them). Spark Bolt: A very handy move, it is a very fast projectile that goes through all other projectiles. It can be used to bring the opponent closer to you, start a combo from a move that wouldn't result in a strong (or any) combo and can be used to extend combos as well. The downside is that it requires a special meter to be filled to use. The meter fills over time but you can also use Voltic Charge (see below) to charge it up faster. Don't do what many many Tager players do, i.e. throw out the Spark Bolt as soon as you get it. It is very predictable and sensible opponents will become more careful when your Spark Bolt is charged, meaning it is often blocked and basically wasted. Save it to punish something the opponents does from a distance, to start a combo from attacks that wouldn't lead into combos or to extend your combos. Voltic Charge: While Tagers charges (you can extend the charge by holding down B), when you release you will recieve the energy you charged. While charging you automatically block high and body attacks, but you are vulnerable to grabs and low attacks. Magna Tech Wheel: When Tager spins he will automatically block any move, for that reason it is often used as a punish. It is also used to add extra damage to a combo (often after a Spark Bolt). It is not safe on block or on whiff, so use it with care. Genesic Emerald Tager Buster (720): Very strong command grab that is fully invulnerable up till the point of the grab. Not safe on whiff. Please refer to the specific thread about this move on the Tager part of the forum. Beginner Tager combos: neutral grab (B+C)>Atomic Collider>Sledge B>Gadget Finger 360A>3C 360B>5B>4D 360B>Gadget Finger 5A>5B>3C>Gadget Finger 2B>2C>Atomic Collider>Sledge B>Gadget Finger ...(Atomic Collider>)Spark Bolt>2C or 5C>Atomic Collider ...(Atomic Collider>)Spark Bolt>Magna Tech Wheel>Terra Break Here's the toughest combo so far, but still tweaked so it's easier than other Fatal Counter Hit combos. Fatal Counterhit 2C>5C>Atomic Collider>jump forward>jumping C (in midair, it moves you closer to your opponent)>jumping 2C (press it slightly before Tager is about to land on the ground)>5B>5C>6C>5D

It can. Also, from j.B+C. From 3C From airgrab

It's to stop people from jumping out, not in, that many characters 5B and 5C have become air-unblockable.

236236B is basically the same, but it's use will be more limited. No more double 236236B combos. I also assume that if you want to repeat your chains after say 236236B you're gonna have to do 5D~A, 6D~A... against some characters instead, since D's of the same direction have same move proration.

I'm not going to judge CS2 Hazama based on some leaked info. But, from what I'm seeing it looks like Hazama might get more interesting to play. This time it looks like he'll have more than 1 BnB. And if it's true that you can deal 3500 meterless damage from a CH 3C or 236D then that hints at his combo damage probably not being as terrible as some people feared. But it seems that chain rep combos are dead.

copypaste from here

Depends, the initial hit from b+c wasn't difficult, it was getting the proper amount of chain repetitions. But making things easier is never a bad thing. Why do you come here and whine about something that is out of anyones hands? Why do you vent your frustration on others on a forum? That isn't mature behaviour and it doesn't help you one bit, it's simply a waste of time. People get annoyed over a myriad of different things, your frustration is nothing special. Learn some restraint. Unless your goal is to annoy other people and waste your own time.

BBCS2 is released in japanese arcades on Dec. 9 (in 2 days). That's all we know.

It's just a roundabout way of doing things. Also, I doubt learning another game and character, in addition to finding competent people to play against in said game will help you more than if you spent all that time practicing on what you lacked in BB. Learning how to space with Ryu won't help you space better with Ragna, you will only get used to spacing, since you're focusing on spacing with Ryu... but you could've just as well focused on spacing with Ragna instead. Heck, the easiest way to learn something like blocking well or spacing is to simply focus on doing just that instead when you play your matches, don't care about winning. Focus on blocking everything the opponent throws at you if you're for example fighting a rushdown character. Same with IB training. Same with spacing training. It's all about doing it until it comes naturally. Your goal should be to be so comfortable with your character and the game that you only need to focus on the psychology of your opponent. So long story short, becoming familiar with another game and character isn't exactly detrimental, but it's not optimal either.

You don't play other games to get better at BB, you play BB to get better at BB. One thing you must always remember is to improve upon the things you're not good at, not sitting in training trying to learn a meaty new combo all the time. What good are combos if you never land them? Not good at spacing? Practice that. Not good at hit-confirming? Practice that. Not good at blocking? Practice that.

That entirely depends on the setup or combo. Sure in certain combos the prorate would seriously start to kick in after a while, but in some cases like with say magnetised 360B - 5B - they don't tech - AC - etc. Some people won't tech for fear of it being a tech trap, when it really isn't, resulting in you dealing 1k+ extra damage because they don't tech. Not the best example, but the least complex one. If you fight a no-techer and you're in a gimmicky mood...

If they're afraid of teching, then just blue beat them to death. There are tons of gimmicky stuff you can use against people that never tech.

Wouldn't happen very often. It'd basically have to be a situation where you would be forced to either die from getting guard crushed and then finished off, or die from a 236236B trade (meaning you would have to be low on health and guard primers). Otherwise you'd normally go for a 236236B punish, if you are able. But if you can't do that yet, then a CA could serve as a move to give you some breathing room.

Seems pointless to discuss that any further. I say we wait until the actual BBCS2 info gets released until we post in this thread any further. Discussing what might be in when we're only a few days away seems a tad meaningless.

To clarify, compared to say Bang, Litchi, Ragna, Lambda and so forth. He's no Rachel, but saying that he's popular would be the overstatement of the month. I've run into more Tager than Hazama players. But if you've come across a bunch of Hazama players, then good for you.

If he becomes difficult to play and isn't even mid-tier then I'd say the chances are pretty high that a bunch of the current Hazama mainers will drop him (which is a shame, since there aren't exactly tons of people playing him right now). But maybe this time it's Tsubaki's time to shine and we'll finally see some people play her.

What are you trying to say? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Or are you trying to tell me how to IB 720 punish? If so, there is no need. I already know how to do it and you probably missed it and my real point in my previous post. I apologize if I were unclear.

Who said anything about tick:ing the 720? And I'd say that it's much more difficult to IB 720 someones pressure with BM Tager than if you did it normally, it's not as if the 720 motion is what's hard, it's knowing when you can do it and then doing it that is. The charged up Distortion meter and Barrier is what makes it more annoying to successfully do. If your opponent can IB 720 punish with BM Tager, then you should be thankful he's playing BM Tager. With all this talk about BM, I'm getting interested to see a tournament where experienced players play with BM only, just for fun. Kind of like those Unlimited mode tournaments.

Don't get why people say that standing 720 is what makes BM Tager a bit of an issue, it's telegraphed way in advance and you could always just do a 5A buffer into 720 and that would already be better than BM 720. If the meter didn't show then it might've been a slight issue, but as it stands BM Tager is way worse than vanilla Tager.

Allowing BM in regular tournaments isn't a problem at all, since it severely limits that players options. But people shouldn't really enter tournaments with BM, since it pretty much guarantees a loss against (most) experienced players. But a BM tournament could potentially be a good idea.

Of course I know it and I know it's hard as hell. Spacing isn't the same as pace. "Mastery of 720" means that you can IB 720, know what and where you can punish with a 720 and then doing it. Call me lazy. I'm not saying he played poorly, I'm stating what he could improve upon that would make this matchup easier. Sometimes it's enough if the opponent *knows* you can do it. Sometimes, taking risks is worth it. I brought up elements you could improved upon, I didn't rack on your inability to block IAD overheads or calling you slow. I learned that the hard way, learning to deal with Bang and Litchi was a grueling nightmare (mind you, it still isn't "even"). You missed a few spots where you could've caught Litchi in a 720. And don't forget about quick rise and that you cancel it into an offensive move (like a 360) or BB. At 1:15 I wouldn't call it legit and you could've used QR etcetera. This could easily turn into a rant that wouldn't really serve you, because in this matchup quick reactions, experience and studying habits etcetera is what really helps and that isn't something I can just tell you to do or learn, especially when your game wasn't really that flawed, you played well. But it's pointless to stare yourself blind at specific spots in a match, my point was that there are spots where you could've thrown out a 720 with a high or guaranteed chance or catching Litchi. I can't accuretely judge or give you specific tips if I don't watch a bunch of your matches versus said Litchi player, so feel free to post more matches. I've played Tager for about little over one and a half year and I'm faily good with him, but I'm infamous for sucking at giving tips, which is why I mostly lurk. I only tend to confuse people. Never understood why people are in the habit of calling people "new" or noobs.

You miss recoveries (blue beat). You miss several moments where you could've catched Litchi in a 720, like for example at 1:15. You often fall for IAD jump ins, maybe practice on doing a 623C/2C on reaction to that or block high. Try not to let the opponent control the pace, too often you simply remain passive and wait for the opponent to come to you. Break their flow. Rest is mostly just practice and experience. But mastery of the 720 makes this matchup less painful.