someonewhodied

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php/topic/6973-cp-nu-vs-bang/#entry924840 Heres a quick rundown of the nu vs bang matchup right now and how bang should play it. As long as the its not netplay and the bang knows what hes doing, theres no reason he should lose the matchup. Annnnnywayyyyyyyssssss. For gameplay. Relius confirmed most Unga? OD Combo>2363214C(Restand)>236236D(Minimum Hitstun on individual hits)>ABCD for triple super ender? ooorrrrrr koko: reverse icegun(bullet whiff, Ice gives bonus prorate)>66OD>superball>launch>superball>launch>ABCD? Superball+launch is like 900 damage each in OD or tager magnatech wheel>followup>abcd? so many high damage possibilities.

I'll use this post to describe in CPE why this matchup is shit and theres almost nothing nu can do. I've played both sides of this matchup constantly. Normals: If you are close enough to use normals, that means you probably have already gotten a combo once, or the bang isn't that good, or really impatient. Drives: You have to be ready to act parser at any point if you see one get guardpointed. The most obvious point to be guardpointed is a 4DD>5D gatling or a 4DD>Sickle You shouldn't be catching a good bang player on hit or block with air drives or a 6D or 2D except at the start. If you get a hit, cool, but if its blocked, bang can j.D between different drives on IB. Be ready to act parser. This unfortunately only puts you in neutral, you gain no advantage from this. Now for specials. First of all, bang can punish sickle on REACTION with 6D>teleport>Counterhit>4 seals combo. You can't use it in mixup because you can't gravity cancel it on block/guardpoint. Spike chaser can be used to force him to jump, guardpoint, or block. You can use this to bait guardpoints and grab him out of them or force him to block for a quick mixup or jump. The best thing [D] or DC sickles can be used for is to bait mashed drive guardpoints but if the bang player is reacting to your 5Ds and sickles, its not a great option because you get punished hard with a bang 6D counterhit. Gravity should always be held since you use it to act parser away (gravity>act parser) when he tries to approach you. The most important tool in this matchup. On the bang side: look for a 4DD>5D gatling. Buffer your 6D to guardpoint the 5D when its travelled about one third the screen. Don't mash drive, you'll get rekt, Look for the 5D to guardpoint. While nu can act parser away to avoid a C teleport, you can do an A teleport instead to bait that. 6D counter is 4 seals midscreen. 236D, DC, and [D]: Look at nu for the visual cue for this attack. a frame 1 guardpoint 236DC where it appears right on you will still guardpoint the other two types of sickles (Should probably still avoid guardpointing [D] version) so you only need to learn the timing for this. If you are closer and nu does reverse sickle, she can block in time. Charge sickle at further away can also have nu blocking 6D after so you can just TK D Nails then IAD for a punish here, or TK A nail to poison her. 214D series: One of nu's best options in this match. You can throw an A nail to cancel it out otherwise you limit your options. I suggest always budgeting 4-5 nails per match just for this. If you see the animation, you can iad poison nail>3C to get a free fatal. But its not always a punish situation. Gravity: Not much you can do here. You should just watch for moves to guardpoint and teleport. There are some you can react to. Block otherwise. Supra: Frame 1 or 2 head invul now. Can be used as a dp vs antiairs and is just as unsafe on block. Just be careful of this if you want to play impatient. Can also be used to OS j.4B crossups with the nu inputting 421ABC Just don't use that crossup too much. Key situations: Nu oki does not work on bang at all other than an OD setup which is generally once per match but the OD is usually saved as a burst or unblockable setup. You can neutral tech her j.214[D] air oki and it will completely whiff leaving her free to be punished. Spike chaser oki can be used to bait drives and you can get grabbed out of them so if you want to guardpoint those be sure to switch up your teleport buttons sometimes. The nu will have a 1/3 chance of punishing based on distance and you can vary your timing too. Off of your first and next 2-3 knockdowns or throws, SET UP YOUR TK BUMPERS! They are the god in this match because you, unlike other characters, don't have to commit to any movement. Like. "I'll just IAD. Oh look theres a 6D, nvm i'll go to the ground instead and just 3C her" or "Oh hey theres a 5D. JUMP BUMPERDASH free j.B" so long as you aren't randomly throwing moves out you can react to those drives and use bumpers to make them miss and then punish. j.214A, B, and D are for use midscreen, use j214C for the corner oki bumper. You don't even have to mix nu up since if she tries to attack you there are points where you can do unavoidable punishes. All you need to do is land 2K+ damage, block all drives (Nu caps out at ~2000 damage chip per match if the max possible attacks thrown out are blocked and you haven't used barrier), hold 50 heat to counter assault the unblockable, and thats game. On netplay obviously nu mixup is way stronger but offline its way reactable. Also that cmnd grab super can be used on reaction to any thrown drive. Online losing with bang is forgivable in this matchup but if you lose offline as bang against nu, you have no excuses at all. (except maybe execution errors because that happens every now and then)

You obviously won't counterpick using a character you are unfamiliar with. And just because you play multiple characters doesn't make them any worse than anyone else's single character. Even if they know a matchup, that doesn't mean you don't. You still have the advantage, it just isn't free in that scenario.

Valk vs Terumi is fine as a matchup. Its not GOOD for terumi, but its playable. There is nothing Nu can do to Bang since he can react to and punish most things. Other things are no threat to him. If you think you can beat a good bang player as nu by all means try to. I can just play a matchup that actually resembles a playable game state for me. Theres a few unwinnable matchups in BB.

You only need 3 to 4 characters to have a counterpick for everyone. Like i have Nu, bang, koko. My only remaining bad matchus would be covered by izayoi or litchi. Theres no need to learn half the cast to counterpick everyone. Just a few characters. Also if you dedicate yourself to counterpicking and an opponent only has one "good" character and one shoddy sub, even if they counterpick you with their sub your character is probably better in that situation.

I'm actually blind, someone else pointed out to me that its actually a move that was set up before, like a mu12 stein. Thats cool.

The extent of the info we have now is: 3rd drive followup, can go at the same time as an act parser.

Loketest on July 19th and 20th.

Ragna is fast and gets the reward he needs off of his pokes. He also has access to a fast DP so he can OS crossups with a 421ABC input so we have less options to open him up. And CS during OD raid is good. Its definitely a boring matchup that tests the patience of both players though.

Nu main knowledge bomb lesgo. Worst matchups right now according to most nu's: Hazama / Bang Tager Litchi/Lambda Ragna Worst ones IMO: Hazama/Bang Lambda Kokonoe Tao in that order. Hazama and Bang do not need to commit to any movement. They are also anti-zoner just by design. Before hazama chains outranged nu swords. Now they have the same range and speed. But Hazama can move when his drives whiff. Nu can't. Tager IMO isn't even all that bad but people insist its in his favor, like really in his favor. Litchi i never had an issue with but based on other people its in her favor. Lambda only has the advantage because her specials start at lv2 projectiles while nu's dont and her drives stay in lv2 much longer than nu's. You can punish nu drives on reaction with lambda. Ragna has a slightly above even matchup vs Nu apparently. N-O himself has chosen ragna as his character for Rachel's bad MUs(AKA most of the cast) and has said its easy for ragna. Kokonoe can teleport between 4DD>5DD and can punish you if she has a graviton on the other side of the screen with that teleport. She also has the ability to keep nu locked down forever off of any knockdown. Tao is just tao. Fuck tao. Her voice is a 10-0 matchup against me. Annoying. Now the problem we're talking about. Nu vs Hakumen This matchup is complete shit for hakumen. He can not do shit about nu's oki. Like Hakumen can not counter projectiles for a free meter and he can't grab you if he counters a projectile. All nu has to do is 3C knockdown into reverse sickle oki and laugh as hakumen cries every time. As for neutral, nu drive speedup and 2D shrinking her vertically even further than before, IADs are bad in this matchup. Nu's drives pierce now so the orb doesn't do shit. Hakumen doesn't get a large reward off of his main 3C counter combo anymore so that doesn't help at all.

I am so upset i might actually not be able to play in this. Theres an offline meetup that day here and we almost never get these meetups anymore :|

If he thinks azrael "high/low" mixup is cheap show him the 7frame crossup phanlax into super for ez 2K or show him valk/rachel/bang(with bumpers)/izayoi(gain arte+transam)

5B: .89 6B: .89 3C: .89 2C: .89 5C: .89 j.2C: .89 236[D]: .92 214D series: .94 j214Ds: .89 other 236Ds: .89 623C: .79 j623C: .89 if anyone needs this. OD>6CFC>214D66>CT>214DC~214A>6A>2147D44>j.214[D]>236[D]~214A>5DD>6D>2DD>236236D>66DD>2DD>6D>2D>632146D 8 0 0 0 D A M A G E B O Y S

There are rare situations but they do come up. Kokonoe throws out superball. Platinum throws out bomb later. Kokonoe 5C counters platinum. Jump cancels to block bomb. Counter assault from bomb blockstun to hit platinum into falling superball. Follow up combo after. Thats like a one in a million situation but believe it or not, i've had it happen in matches twice.

what did the patch just now fix? oh. Update breaks replay data. Hakumen Meter Bug Fixed Network Stability.

236D after a crescent is just asking to be fatalled. There is zero risk to that. IMO the best oki is just 2147D ender>2B the 2B catches everything unless they neutral tech and if the combo was longer, the 2B won't bluebeat on nontech. Then you can just block or backdash if they neutral tech.

i wonder if thats why everyone hates playing me. Unless its a tourney setting or a money match, i have one purpose. Style on you as hard as possible, even at the cost of the match. I will go for some gimmick routes that lose 2K damage just to look cool.

Not quite. 5C>5D>5C is strong because if you do a super against it, they can see the superflash during the stein recovery and cancel it into DP immediately, putting you out 50 heat and in a bad situation again. 5C>6D>5C or 5C>4D>5C is a lot safer against people without their 50 heat though since you can cancel 4D/6D a lot earlier (3 to 6 frames earlier it looks like). You can get supered doing that while already in 5C animation though.

A lot of (okay not a lot but i still see some) advanced players i see still freeze up and drop stuff in situations where they are able to pick up at least a proper early ender if spacing isn't desirable.

Hmm things have been kinda slow around here. Gonna post something possibly controversial but should be a nice, interesting discussion topic. =============== You know, i hate the mentality of most FG players when it comes to combos. Everyone thinks that they should learn entire combos for just a few confirms and stick with those same routes off of every confirm. It makes it a lot harder to play a character when you only know how to do a combo a specific way or confirm a move a specific way. I feel like its really causing players to not be very good at closing out matches or putting themselves in good situations at the end of a combo. It is especially bad when a route you've learned doesn't work at a specific distance or height. I feel like the best way to learn a character is actually to learn combos by sections. If you know that one move can go into another move and at the end of one section of a combo, you position the opponent in a way that another combo section can continue, then you will be able to can easily just put together combos on the fly for whatever situation you are in when you get a confirm. Also if you miss a cue for a move in a link, and you notice that, you can just do something else that works in that situation instead of just dropping the combo because you don't know how to pick up a combo in that situation. Another issue with combos i see is that most combos that are learned go directly from the first hit into the combo itself. While that's good for punish combos and its optimal, most players won't be able to confirm a hit that quickly in other situations. Combos should have the first 2 or 3 hits be the same as if they were blockstrings. This will give time to actually confirm that you got a hit and let you have time to prepare a specific route you have in mind instead of dying because you expected something to hit, did a blockstring that ended you in a punishable state, and getting combo'd, or doing a blockstring, landing a stray move in it, and go into a slower attack that usually combos too slowly and dropping it. what do you guys think? also i swear i just wanted to discuss this, i'm not under the influence or anything right now.

off of the corner oki i posted in gameplay discussion: 2B>6A> forward roll: 214A>6C>236A~236C>214D>665B>6A>2147D backroll/Quick tech: 5C>236B>2B>6A>6C>236C>214D>5B>6A>2147D Nontech: [2147D>2B>6A>] xN edit: better oki setup: X>236B>2B>6A>6C>236C>214D>214A>5B>6A>2147D same oki after but they won't get out of the corner at all with this downside? you need some form of gravity use to deal with forward rolls. edit 2: looks like if 5B>6A>tk crescent hits low enough, 2B won't bluebeat even on nontech. Godlike.

haven't done much but heres a better corner route: X>236B>662B>6A>6C>236C>214D>5B>6A>2147D>2B if they don't tech, off of the 2B bluebeat just do 2B>6A>TK214D again after like 3 times if they still don't tech the 2B will start a new combo. the 2B catches other tech options and gives you time to 2A meaty neutral tech or block DPs.

yo did carl 236B lose projectile invul or mid invul?

5CCH Touch of death ~50% health, need ~80% heat to start the combo 5CCH>jODC>2C>5C>3C>9D>236B>22B>236[D]>Golden Tager Charge>]D[>]C[ up to 11K

623C(AA)>662DD>214D~C>5DD>6D>2DD>236D~C~214C>5B>6A>6C>236[D] 3292 Damage