Killey

Once Nu get's her zoning game you have to be patient and block her strings (IB them is preferred but scrap that if you have any input delays in an online match). Patience is a real virtue in this match and you can just rush wildly against a new player that really knows what they are doing. They will smash most of your attempts at getting in close so you have to find your openings or force them to go on the offensive when they realize their block strings don't work. I cannot stress how important it is to exercise patience in this match up and knowing how to block her strings. Worst part about Nu is that her block strings/combos generate good Heat for her so even if you do pressure her with block strings she can expend 50% heat on a dead angle to push you away and then reapply her zoning and gain that meter back. With my experiences with the match up it seems oki games plays a big role in dealing with Nu. While guessing right in an oki game helps in all matches with Nu it seems to be the best way to guarantee getting in close and dealing some good damage off of a tech recovery relaunch.

You do realize your opponent can tech out of the throw ending your combo string and since the throws are in a combo they have plenty of time to tech out of them. Jin would be the most broken character in the game if he got away with untechable throw combos.

Depends on the timing of their back dash and the character they are using. Tager's back dash is pretty godly and the air dash j.B will whiff through his back dash and you'll eat a 360 counter throw. The "air-to-air" pressure will only occur if you are using the air dash j.B, j.C or j.B immediately after whiff j.A but it removes some follow up pressures that Jin has if they were to block on the ground. Personally, it seems like a better defensive option for your opponent as he/she can just avoid the low mix up altogether and potentially land a CH on you whne you whiff the 2B and worst case scenario they're blocking in the air. Depending on the character they may have good escape options at that point.

j.A cancels can be implemented anytime you can combo an opponent with 5C, j.B off of a freeze. It can be incorporated into a block string as well but the opponent just needs to block low to avoid the early j.B. In those options you could also remove the air dash and just go straight into another j.B or simply land and throw. That's the beauty of the mix up game/reset you get from j.A cancel. They block low they eat the overhead right away and get setup for another 3k combo. If you opt to land into 2B instead of j.B or air dash j.B they eat the low and you get a high damage corner combo with knock down and oki options. It's a bit of risk to do the j.A cancel though as you are sacrificing the rest of your freeze combo for a potential reset. If your opponent anticipates the j.A cancel they can jump block out or just back dash screwing over any high/low/throw mix ups you had in mind.

What do you guys think about the application of using j.A (whiff) as a means to cancel the recovery time on j.B I'm calling this j.A cancels/cancelling. Buppa has been using j.A cancels as resets but I'm trying to find more applications to it. It has been mentioned briefly before but nobody has really explored it here. For those of you who don't know what this is you basically use j.A immediately after j.B to cancel the recovery of j.B which basically resets Jin's air options. I've been testing this out in training mode for a variety of applications and think it's a wonderful tool to use in Jin's pressure game. You can nail an airborne opponent with j.B, j.A cancel, j.B, jc, j.B, j.C, j.D, 214B or adjust the combo depending on the height of you and your opponent when you land the first j.B. I don't recommend using this as part of his standard air combos as you scale the damage and probably screw the spacing of j.D. Best used for those air-to-air situations. Keep your opponent honest with an early j.B, j.A cancel, j.B or mix it up by forcing your opponent to block the j.A (it is an overhead after all) do another j.B or j.C or jump cancel after j.A in an attempt to cross up with a late j.B. You could simply land after the j.A cancel and do 2B for a low mix up. You can air dash right after j.A cancelling so you can force your opponent in a 50/50 situation where they have to block high to avoid an air dash overhead of j.B, j.C, land 5C, 6C->BnB for high damage or block low to avoid 2B, 5C->combos. Biggest weakness to j.A cancels is that your opponent can back dash or do a top invicible move to either dodge or counter your pressures altogether provided they are quick enough or anticipate it. I think it's a pretty useful tool in block strings but anyone else experiment with this in detail?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByVkICct-vc Ren vs Buppa starts at 8:10. Recent match of Buppa vs Ren. First to 2 and Ren takes both rounds but Buppa puts up an amazing fight. I have to say Ren has upped his game significantly as the last match I saw between the 2 Ren was outclassed by Buppa. Overall, it seems Buppa is taking more risks and attempts to do resets in the middle of his combo strings with j.A whiff cancels and it's not paying off this time. A lot of risky moves by Buppa and it got him punished multiple times ultimately costing him the match at least in my opinion. Far be it from me to question Buppa's plays as we would all cheer him on if he landed those risks. Nothing new in Jin tactics just Ren played a solid defensive Jin against Buppa's aggressive Jin and came out on top.

Ah thanks for the corrections I'll edit my post here. Good stuff with the j.2C counter I thought for sure you had to IB that and I don't bother trying to IB stuff online due to lag/delay issues but if I can just C Fubuki it on anticipation that would be even better. Wouldn't the CH 2C combo be dependant on where you get hit? I can see her getting a combo off if she CH me on the ground but if she uses 2C as a CH anti-air I don't see her being able to combo off of it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Okay here is my match up experience with Rachel. Her 6A is incredibly good. It's got so many good properties to it. It's her best anti-air, can OTG, and has super armor to it. It cleanly beats out Jin's j.B so do not use it for rush down/zoning tactics. It has 13 frame startup and has 5 active frames and takes 13 frames to recover from so it can be punished if baited. Just don't try to counter it on reaction as it does have armor properties wait until the attack comes out and then punish. It eats projectiles but just 1 so 236D will still go through. 6B is one of Rachel's better pokes and she will use this to fish for counter hits. On counter hit from midscreen can lead to her corner combo that will deal around 50% of your health. It has long recovery so can be punished if whiffed but good Rachel players will have Pumpkin/Frog/Bat Poles as means to keep her safe. j.C is a good juggle for Rachel so if you get jump/air tech happy she can keep you juggled with this move. j.2C is the spike drop overhead that is commonly used in her rush downs in conjunction with her Drive. It can be normal cancelled to kill the recovery of the landing allowing Rachel to resume her rush. You don't have to be too concerned if the frog is out as part of the Rush uses her Drive which pushes you far away from the frog. The pumpkin on the other hand keeps her safe (the rush in general is safe). This rush down uses a lot of hi/low mixups but is easy to predict as j.2C is the only overhead in the rush so you can block low and when you see her jump block high. Granted, it's a really low jump and comes out fast due to the use of her Drive but can't be predicted. You can C Fubuki her or barrier guard to try to reset the distance and pacing. 2C is the Cat Chair and has armor properties. It's a bad move overall but is good to get her out of over committed rush downs. She can combo if she nails a CH on you with this so be aware. It's got horrible recovery and can be baited on people who spam this with some dash cancelling. Rachel crumbles when pressured so just like any zoning character you want to get close. Jin has a better poking game then Rachel within 5C range so within that distance standard pokes are good. Anything farther from that range and Rachel has the advantage since she can set up Bat Poles/Frog/Pumpkin to prevent you from getting close. Her ground Bat Pole launch has bad recovery to it so if you can anticipate on the trajectory and landing of the Bat Pole you can Ice Car your way in. If you screw up you will get nailed by the Bat Pole and can eat the 22A follow up or her DD follow up. Don't try to outzone Rachel from full screen away as she can simply out do you in projectiles. Ice Wave Super is good to punish Bat Pole launches. The Frog is a pain in the ass and you need to keep an eye on it once it's out. As mentioned before it takes 700dmg to kill it. 2B to smack it on the ground. 5D to kill it if it jumps at you. You can simply avoid it but the Rachel wants you to do that so she can set up her games and eventually force you into a position where you are eating the frog hits or blocking it. Aerial 236A/B/D can kill the frog as well. I will somtime use those as a last resort if I feel I need to make a last minute dodge as it will push me back. You may be able to catch the Rachel player by surprise if they try to push towards the frog. If Rachel is hit the Frog dissapears so when possible get in close to Rachel to land a hit but if that Frog is closing in on you and Rachel is on the defensive its best to backwards air dash away then continuing to apply pressure. The Pumpkin can only be used as an offensive tool with Rachel's Drive. Floating by itself it doesn't do anything. Good Rachel players use the Pumpkin as part of her mixup, start to her rush, or means to keep her safe. It is rarely used as an offensive tool by itself as it wastes her Drive guage that is necessary to her rushes/pressure games. Pumpkin will dissapear if Rachel is hit. If Rachel has Bat Poles, Frog, and Pumpkin on screen then it's best to go on the defensive as Bat Poles stuff your attempts to getting in close. With the frog on the field you will always be keeping an eye on its position and you are bound to make a mistake which will lead to Rachel dealing big damage on you. On top of that the Pumpkin is keeping her safe as well as being a zoning tool. There is too many things to keep track of for Jin to launch a successful counter attack once she has all the traps laid. It's best to play defensively and try to bait out something punishable. You'll want to kill the Frog first but don't commit to that strategy as that's exactly what the Rachel player wants you to do. Essentially, she has divided your attention and can catch you with a mix up game while you are not paying enough attention to her. If she follows up the bat poles with 22A then you have some breathing room and now have a better means to get in close.

5D's get stuffed by Haku-men's Drive so don't throw it out too often or get predictable with it otherwise you will get punished. It's also incredibly easy to IB and with Haku's range will get you punished. Throw it a few times to stop his IAD shennanigans but keep in mind that Haku can IAD j.D and counter it. All of Haku's D moves are 1F start ups and has 7 active frames except jD which has 9 active frames, which is reliable enough to stuff 5D with its 20 frame start up and 8 active frames. Ice Wave Super to stuff IAD happy Haku-men's. Can't believe how many people fall for it. Especially, after they get you on the defensive. Don't use 236C for corner oki as Haku can neutral tech and use 2D, 6D to counter it immediately. Just like any other match up though read your opponent and see if they will fall for 236C oki. Rely on 5B/2B for oki games if they are 2.D/6.D your 236C's after a 3C. Haku-men's got a big weakness to Jin's j.B and doesn't have many answers to it, however, do not get predictable with your j.B's as you can be air thrown from it. Getting stuck in the corner with Haku-men blows and if he has enough stars can start doing his hi/low game. Learn to block/counter them as a single corner combo from Haku-men is enough to turn the tide of the match to his favor. Haku's 6A stuffs Jin's IAD j.B. Otherwise apply pressure on Haku up close and he'll crumble.

I've been wondering how the barrier burst guard break works myself. I've had it happen to me once or twice but I don't understand it. Also, wtf! How the hell did Bang survive that combo after the barrier burst guard break? That combo deals a solid 2.3+k damage. There was no way he would survived that and it should have not prorated the damage to that degree.

It's a 6-4 in Jin's favor. Bang's drives have armor properties so they can absorb hits and keep going. At the opening of the match you can play it safe and jump back to see what they do if they try to air dash in you can do j.D to freeze and punish with a BnB. If they throw the nails block and prepare for their rush down. Doing a dash cancel Fubuki at the beginning is stupid as good Bang players have good punishes for this. Bang doesn't have many overheads so block low for his combos and look for opportunities to punish. Alternatively, 6B is useful to throw out as it will go over his low moves and land a counter hit into BnB. 5D beats TK Nails. B Nail and Running Super will beat out Jin's Ice Swords so don't throw these out too often as it will lead into a favorable position for Bang. Don't over commit in your rush downs as he can punish it with his Drives. Learn to block his mix up games and zone him properly. Once you get in close the match is pretty much yours provided you keep a look out for his Drives.

I recommend 2 things to deal with pressure. First, use every character in the game and identify generally how their normal works and how they can gatling together. Figure out what are their overhead options and what leads into that overhead. Second, read up the 101 guides in each character forum here. Everyone has been kind enough to create an in depth tutorial on how each character works what their best options are and what can kind of mix up game they have. Doing that alone has single handedly saved me in several match ups. The Litchi match up in particular was easier to handle once I understood how to tech recover against her mix ups and what to keep a look out for.

Thanks for the advice early on I've now played multiple Rachel players and have been succesful in handling all of them.

j.B is your friend against Tager as he doesn't have many options against it other than trying to back dash and use the invincibility frames to nail a throw counter but those can be avoided altogether. In this match up you want to be all in up Tager's face as in a distance game Tager can outpoke you and has several means to get you in close if you are on the defensive. Spamming projectiles from a distance is stupid as he can punish with the gravity projectile that will bring you in for his BnB. IB his drive moves is pretty key and leads to a lot of punishes. They're pretty slow as well so it should be easy to get the timing down with some practice in training mode. Just always be ready to tech throw against him. Tager has 2 ways to punish over committed and predictable rush ins. Throw Counter with command grab/super grab or regular throw, which can be assisted with a back dash to avoid attacks or his electric spin super which can be RC'd to command grab so if you block be on the look out for that.

What's the match up statistics? Is it 6-4 Jin's favor? Here's all the info I can dig up in regards to Noel's game and some stuff that gets you punished when facing Noel. As mentioned her 6A and 6C are incredibly fast and can stuff your j.B's on reaction which will lead into 6C loop to BnB's for big damage. I got punished a lot because I got predictable with my j.B's and ate a 6A/6C BnB. j.B in general seems really unsafe to do in this match up even for zoning/lock down purposes as she's got 2 anti-airs (6A and 6C) into BnB's and 2 air-to-air moves (j.C and J.B) that will beat it into a simple combo. Her 5A is incredbily fast (5f as mentioned) and is very safe for her to do. It will beat out everything Jin has up close as I think the fatest move has a 7f startup. 5A can be hit confirmed into 6A into her BnB so not something you want to get nailed with. Noel's distance game is incredibly weak and she has no way of zoning you from a far. She doesn't have many good pokes and her Optic Barrel special is pretty easy to avoid but be warned that it can be hit confirmed into her BnB. Jin should have the advantage in the poking game but it really doesn't feel that way to me when Noel can properly distance herself and find ways to counter the pokes altogether. 5D is a good poke if she is air dashing at you but otherwise it feels unsafe in the match as her 3C will go under it (if timed at the same time or earlier then when you do 5D) and nail you for a CH into BnB. She can air dash higher than your 5D and nail you for a CH j.B/j.C into a BnB. The stupid bitch is fast and has a lot of hi/low mix up games that makes blocking her offense tough and most of the block string can be hit confirmed into her BnB. Her 6B overhead is slow but can be chained to 5c/6c,2c,3c so you need to change your block quickly or be quick with the counter hit on her 6B. Blocking her D Spam really shouldn't be an option as you don't want her pushing the guard libra in her favor and it seems like a waste to Barrier Block it when you have counter options. Expert Noel players now have this trick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZN9bRvw7uE) up their sleave. Basically, they can cancel the recovery on her jump drive into her regular drive moves without actually having to go through the animations of initiating her Drive. This is something you have to worry about on really high level play and will be annoying to deal with.This means blocking her j.C on the ground no longer leads to punishes as she can Jump Drive Cancel into the shoulder tackle for cross ups or drive cancel into other options (2,6 D) that can be hit confirmed into her BnB. This adds a lot more to her mix up games making her deadly when you are forced on the defensive. That being said Noel has to get in close to deal the brunt of her damage and really relies on doing set ups to land that BnB. Once again Fubuki's seem to be your friend in this match up as it's a faster Anti-Air tactic then 5D and C/D Fubuki's can punish over committed rush ins. Noel's Alpha Counter is useful as it will put her behind you and can be used to hit confirm into 6A BnB. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7a5GUQe6pI Even Buppa had a lot of difficulties handling Noel and while this match is old it shows a lot of tactics he used for Noel. He totally changed up his gameplay by the 2nd/3rd match and it saw more success. Poking with 5C->5D and in general he was trying to out zone her but Noel had a lot of means of getting in close to apply her game. The hi/low/throw mix ups are particularly tough to deal with and he got man handled by them in the final round but did make a nice come back. R-1 used Noel's Drive to counter Buppa's late burst and it nailed him the victory. Overall, it seems Buppa used IB to punish Noel's rush ins but not all of us can IB like Buppa so I'm hoping for other options. I don't know what else to do against a top notch Noel player.

Hmm...I might to have test how good 2B is against that 3C. 2B hits behind Jin so it's quite possible to tag Arakune while he's trying to teleport behind you much like someone trying to tech roll behind you but seems a lot more risky plus I don't think high level Arakune players use 3C that often if at all.

Er...I recall the tutorial video on the Blu-ray saying that A/B Fubuki had invincibility frames later on in the move. I'll have to review to see if I was just imagining things. Yeah, I noticed that you could combo 5C without dashing much later after that post. EDIT: Just rewatched it and yea they were talking about B Fubuki. My bad...

Late j.B's also work as a cross up if you are close to the opponent. Timing is pretty important but it's not a tactic I would use a lot.

If you watch the combo counter he loses it at 5C. It's quite possible his opponent broke out out of the Freeze just in time to eat 5C. I wouldn't rely on that for a reset as it could have been blocked. Worst case scenario you combo the 5C and go into one of Jin's other combos.

Honestly, go read up Litchi's game in the Litchi forum half the battle is always knowing what the character is capable of. You need to know what options she has with and without the staff so you can understand what your opponent is likely to do and how to react accordingly. Buppa and Nisepachi made some errors in their plays leading to Litchi getting back into her groove and nail those counter hit combos that ultimately cost them the match. In a poking war Litchi with the staff has the advantage and trying to out poke with 5D is highly unsafe considering it's start up frames vs Litchi's 6C or jC. Granted, Manako is one of the better Litchi players and knows that her close game with staff is weak and was preventing the 2 from getting in close when possible and worst case scenario she DP her way out for free and punish with BnB leading into her mix ups. Nise Pachi made that error when he landeded a knock and ran towards her for oki. She DP'd Nise and punished for the victory. The worst part about fighting Litchi, imo, is her mix up game after she lands a BnB on you as you have no real safe options for recovery. Tech rolling will get you out in the right scenarios and as you saw in the video if they weren't in the corner they would eat the staff retrieval hit and then tech roll out. Litchi's mix up games after landing a BnB that forces you into the corner usually starts off by recalling her staff with D or Shishin. Tech rolling forwards/backwards in this scenario means you'll eat the hit and possible be relaunched into a new combo for 3k+ damage and even worse if you've bursted already. Netural teching is the preferred thing to do but still unfavorable as you are forced to block the staff and now are in a guessing game of hi/low/throw with Litchi. Barrier Guard appropriately and be ready to buffer in a throw tech. If you are able to guard appropiately it leaves Litchi open for punishment and you'll deal damage equal to what she dealt on you if not greater.

You wasted a lot of damage potential by ending your combos on crouching opponents with 2C, 214B when you should have followed the 5c with a 6c into one of Jin's many combos. That would have ended match 2 with Haku-men at 1:44. A lot of Haku-mens IAD should have been stuffed with an early 5D. Not sure why you just stand over your opponent on knockdown. You should be setting up your Oki games with a 5B, or a dash 6A to name a few options. You have some of the fundamentals of Jin down but you are not capitalizing on the opportunities and instead go with a standard safe combo. You had counter hit Haku-men a couple of times and ended with a 5C, 2C, 214B. On crouching you should have done a 6C dash cancel 5C aerial combo or alternatively 6C, 2D, dash 5C, jb, jc, jd, 214B. On a standing opponent you could have dashed in with 5b (2hits), 5c, jb, jc, jd, dash 5C, jb, jc, jd, 214B or launched them with 6C after the freeze into an air combo for more damage but I prefer a knock down for oki games. Keep in mind though that there are specific characters that these combos don't work for like Arakune. I've posted some match up advice against Arakune in the Jin vs Arakune thread. You showed some good patience when getting cursed but you were a bit hasty on some attempts and you ended up getting cursed/re-cursed.

A lot of common mistakes in this match up is the IAD tactics that Ragna uses. You will eat Jin's 5D or 2D (if timed right) if you are rushing in like that. You could potentially eat a CH C Fubuki as well. Bait that out and IB and punish afterwards. In close Ragna's 2a (among other things) has better priority then Jin's moves just don't spam 2a too much otherwise Jin can 6B counter hit into combo for big damage. Jin only has 1 grounded overhead (6A) and can only be chained with a 5a, 2a so if Jin is starting out his pressure with 5b or anything else then just block low. If he takes to the air you can bet he'll be doing jB, jC so block high (unless there is a suitable counter for this) and keep the defense on until you can muster up an offensive.The startup animation for 6A is incredibly long and easy to counter. 6B is not an overhead so don't let the animation fool you to block high but you could if you want, hell you could IB and punish afterwards. If you get caught in a block string then block low to avoid Jin's 3C knock down, otherwise you'll get caught in his pressure game. Barrier guard his rush downs to push him back and make an attempt to reclaim the pacing of the match. Jin's 5b is a frame trap so barrier guard to push your way out. If you get caught in this frame trap then you could eat a CH into big damage or get thrown. 5B sucks you in for perfect throw distance so if you aren't barrier guarding or IB then be prepared to tech a throw. In the corner Jin can pressure with 5c, 5d's so even if you block one Wolf Head a second one can easily come out and punish a rush attempt.

Oh didn't notice the typo thanks for pointing that out. Fixed now. shtkn: Thanks for the strats and advice. I didn't know pumpkin and frog die when Rachel is forced to block. Good stuff. I think I should be able to put up a better fight against that Rachel player next time I play. Just didn't understand the match up and limited experience against Rachel wasn't going to prep me for that.

Nice, for once I've got a usuable top tier character that doesn't require negative edging and 9999x complicated stuff.

So in other words I need to stop rushing in like an idiot and try to bait counters. Thanks. I'll be incorporating that into my game for sure tonight.