Celerity

5BB > Sweep is also rather height dependent if you're doing it from an AA starter, so you should get used to doing it from her ground routes (like corner throw, 236A > OMC, etc.) first to get the timing down.

The j.C(w) means it's a whiffed normal, although in this case, you're just using it to get a fastfall after j.2B. If you don't input anything after j.2B, Marie will finish the animation and spend a lot of time bouncing backwards. It's not supposed to come out fully. The second combo looks like a typo, should be 2C > 5B, sorry.

No, it's actually better. The D-Pad is very precise compared to DS2/DS3, especially the diagonals. Personally, I can't use it because the weird shape hurts my hands, but it is very good if you can get past that.

When you extend the combo too much and get them higher with extra jump cancels, they recover way too early, so it doesn't work for oki at all. If you're doing the oki properly, it beats late tech because the third arrow will hit meaty.

You're right, it connects with 2B, but it's still only 2848 damage. I don't know where you're getting 3150 from. 5AA > 2B > 5C > 2AB > 236A > OMC > 5B > 5C > 2C > 5B > j.B > j.2B is 2875

Not sure about that. You need to be RIGHT in the corner for this to work, and I don't think you can connect 2B at all if you dash before 2AB. Secondly, your damage is off, it's actually 4166. Don't use weather buffs to pad your numbers. I'll include it because it's more optimal, but I wouldn't recommend the massive increase in difficulty for an extra ~70 damage. j.B whiffs. Also the damage on this combo (yellow beated) is 2852. You must have been doing it from a raw B starter or something.

Anything(2) means the second hit. It's a combo specifically for when they block the first hit of 236A and get hit by the overhead part, although you can use it off of a full 236A as well.

Yeah, if Strike Fall is only cancelable when you reach the ground (I haven't seen otherwise?), then some kind of landing recovery would be implied. I think this is quietly a nerf to strike fall oki, but a buff to AA confirms/stock usage/overall damage.

It's definitely after the ground bounce, because in longer combos the sweep won't connect as they ground tech from 5BB immediately. And delaying the 2nd part of 5BB does seem to make the timing slightly more lenient, or at least it doesn't hurt.

The difference in timing between IAD j.2B and land 5A is very large, ~10F at least, so you can fuzzy it by blocking high for a bit and then blocking low or throwing out any poke. In Yukari's case, it would be 2A. I mean, it's not a real pressure reset, it's just a random IAD in neutral. Yukari's tools aren't so bad that she can't deal with this.

In the corner maybe, but back jump j.2B is Yukari's typical response to stuff like this, and I'm pretty sure it beats anything Marie can do in that spot aside from a yomi card toss. Also, empty jump low is so slow from the IAD that you can likely just block high and throw out a 2A to option select both halves of the "mixup".

First of all, I hope you all already know, but just to clarify, that combo is from an AA 2B. For any of the AA combos, 5BB can be done as quickly as possible. I only delay the second 2B enough to get them at the proper height for 5BB > 2AB to work. Delaying the 2nd hit in 5BB might give you a little bit of extra time to combo the sweep because it delays the ground slam, but it also makes your descent slower, so I'm not really sure what is easier. You'll have to decide on the timing that's easiest for you. Just remember you need to be doing these combos off of a (sometimes very) high/close AA confirm, and the height/distance is character specific, so you should probably practice on a big character like Yu until you understand the range and can contrast it with other characters. Also, that's the reason why I added an AA route that works from low 2B > 5C > 2C confirms, so you can go into that one if you think they're too low for the better combo to work.

I think he's just saying it that way because fuzzies are so incredibly common in P4AU compared to other games. Basically every character has a fuzzy, so it's not even a matchup-specific thing.

Depending on which parts you use, old-style American sticks are known for having the linear button layout, concave buttons, and bat top sticks.

Bright Arrow yes, it's amazing, you can set it after any sweep midscreen or 2C in the corner. It's going to take some experimentation to figure out the optimal setup, but in the corner you can definitely do (combo) > 2C > 214214C, then 66 5C~AA > 5B~C~B~D > 2B to meaty 5A their wakeup and start the arrows flying to cover the gap from jump canceling 2B. It gives you two free mixups, but I feel like there should be potential for more. Midscreen you need to meaty with 5B instead, so it's a little harder, I just mash 5CCD after the super and take what I can get from it. With her persona broken, Marie is better off than most characters, since she still has decent normals, and she can always end combos with sweep into gift. 5BB > 2B routes still work on crouching/AA, and AA 5BB > 2AB > 236B routes still work on everyone. If you're hard pressed for damage, you can do something like this: 5AA > 5B > 2B > 2AB > 236A > RC > (66 if you want side switch) 5BB > 2AB > 236B > delayed airdash > j.B > j.2B > j.236B for 2975. If your persona recovers in mid-combo, you should be able to end that with the j.C(w) fastfall > land 5AAAA > 236236C also.

At worst, you might need to make a NA PSN account to enter the code, but after that you'll be able to use it on any account you want, as long as it's with the NA version of the game.

My apologies, I will need to overhaul this thread for 1.1 after I finish with all the Marie/Rise stuff. SKD's thread is great but it only covers normal mode. As for the question at hand, the reason you don't see Izayoi OD combos is because Izayoi's OD doesn't add significant damage or shorten the recovery of her moves in any meaningful way. You can throw it in after a 2C in order to gain some extra stocks and ~200 more damage from a 236236C ender, but that's about it, from what I've tested.

You should be fine as long as you start charging immediately, but if it helps, you can use the game's input buffer and do it like: [3]4[1]B > 8B, only going to 4 for a brief moment. Buffer the CS early (you have a long time to do this), then buffer the 66 while she's still in the CS animation, then you just have to time j.C as late as possible to continue with land > j.9A > standard route. BTW, how are you doing all of her negative edging on pad without remapping your buttons? I can't physically do anything that requires pressing square+circle or X+triangle at the same time, so I had to remap C to a shoulder button. You must be a god.

5C(2) > 22A does work on Labrys, and 5C(1) > 22B works on her if you do it as quickly as possible. They have to be right in the corner, though. Try to time the 22A so it hits right after the 5C(2) does. It's similar timing to a midscreen 5C(2) > 214B combo.

Why would they not just 2B you on reaction in this situation? I think resetting pressure this way is way too slow/risky since you have no options for baiting their best answer. Also, 236A > airdash j.B whiffs on crouchers, you would need to do j.2B instead.

I'm still playing her pretty defensively for the most part. It's definitely not optimal in every situation, but I think it's kind of important to see what you can get away with on a new character, and her zoning really isn't that bad. 214C/D is highly underrated(?) right now, I feel. It's the gateway to all of your other traps, especially cloud, which is kind of difficult to find the time to set up otherwise. You can throw out a 214C and utilize your pokes behind it, maybe throw in a j.D or 236CD, summon a cloud when the eye is about to detonate, then repeat the process and go for chocolate. Eventually they will either get hit by something or eat a ton of blockstun (chocolate, eye, or a D normal) which gives you the opportunity to go in. The zoning approach doesn't work so well against characters like Mitsuru and Ken, and Marie seems to be a very matchup-driven character, so you're going to have to make a lot of adjustments based on that. My issue with being too aggressive with her is that if you don't have the opponent locked down properly, you're not accomplishing much, and you don't exactly have the best options to reset your pressure without spending meter. I usually default to the mindset of keeping a safe advantage with space and traps, rather than risking my position with mediocre pressure that often just puts me back at neutral, or worse. Marie's oki and damage in the corner is really good, though, so if you get them into the corner you should definitely try to keep them there as long as possible, especially with 214AB under cloudy weather, or Bright Arrow in awakening. I find that critique threads usually die out pretty quickly, and I want to promote moving a lot of that type of discussion into the matchup threads where it will be better organized. Your questions are also just fine for general gameplay discussion, but I'll start a critique thread if there's demand for it.

Thank you for compiling this. The difficult part for me to understand from Maven's frame data was the difference between all the variations of 214X and 214X~C and feinting, etc., which I don't see listed in your spreadsheet. More specifically, I would like to know the total recovery for: -214A~X as fast as possible (52F?) -214B~X as fast as possible (52F?) -214X~C as fast as possible (startup+recovery both needed) -214A~D as fast as possible -214A/B max time with no other inputs

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