Yohosie

Haha, yeah, probably. I think we both get the idea. I should have clarified on MTW. MTW beats everything, move is the god if you know they're going to throw out a button. Hm. j.B safejump works off basic 5D > B Sledge, but 5A looks like it only works when it's done meaty. When done off GF oki Reversal super beats you out of it. If Tager's blocking hitbox is any indication, timing 5a for first frame will get you hit out of it, looks like you need to throw it out so it pokes v13 on active frames 2-3. But, yeah, in terms of 2D/5D, I was having not much issue reacting to a local Nu's standing Ds. Every time I saw her hand move I would crouch while walking and it seemed to be working out pretty well, but I almost always didn't land my first real hit until 30-40 seconds. It's a pretty shitty situation no matter which way you slice it. There's also the disrespectful route of just going ham. full screen sledge B, random s.j C's, fullscreen 2Ds. Doesn't hurt to get explosive every ounce in a while. fuck this matchup Was playing around in training mode. If you voltic charge you can cancel it into A.Hammer when they do the 236D low to attempt to punish you. You recover in time to block, and you projectile invincibility through the low so essentially free voltic charge if they don't have the 50 meter to RC/fullscreen super. Can punish 5D/6D > 66 > 2B this way too. At max distance you can cancel the voltic charge after the 2nd 5D and recover in time to block the 236D, 2D, or 66 followup.

Hm. Guess I'm wrong. You totally can, though the link is very tight. Can make it easier though. Walk forward and dash forward have the same, or nearly the same frame data to get in range of Tager. Azrael can walk forward for 2 frames then input 214B. It makes it so Tager has to actually walk backwards to bait DP. If you crouch block Azrael is in range to Growler you, and if you 5A you still get smacked. Even if you mistime it and step froward for 3-4 frames you just get instant block. why would i post this

Whoops, I meant B sledge. It's crap in most situations because she can just jump cancel 5D and do tk 214D (and maybe harder punishes I don't nkow about). A sledging 5D is still a risk. If you A sledge the first 5D, she can just follow up with another 5D and punish. If you A sledge the 2nd 5D, she can in some situations 2D you can punish you. Of course, the real punishes aren't the damage. Damage doesn't matter, it's that she can combo into 236D and make you lose all the ground you fought to gain. You have to throw out your sledges selectively, I never said not to use them at all. Any move that makes you immune to projectiles will have use against a zoner. The reason behind normal jump is it forces a guessing game with the Nu. She has to either 6D or 5D, and whiffing a D in CP has a lot of recovery frames and lets you gain a lot of ground. Sledging obviously adds another layer to it, but you can't abuse it. Gotta keep it in your pocket and pull it out when you can. Also worth mentioning that v13's 5C is a projectile. 2C and 6C are not. Edit: was in the lab. Wakeup super totally beats all of those options. You can 720 after superflash, though, but it's still a hard bait. Further Edit: Apparently if you're stand blocking during Calamity Sword superflash, you can beat it with B sledge or 720 during superflash. If you're crouch blocking, the hitbox works out where you can backdash and punish with fatal 6C. get wrecked

2C catches it ridiculously free. There's like.... Maybe a 15 frame window. Atomic Collider works too, and arguably works better at the very max range. Edit: Just to check I went into training mode. You can actually get hit by 5C, Ragna can cancel the hit 5C into Blood Scythe, and you can still punish with 2C. You shouldn't really allow Ragna to throw out Bloodscythes in this MU. Edit #2: you can also backdash it for free. It's ridiculously bad in this matchup.

5A. forward dash only has 4 frames of invulnerability, it just smacks him out of it. If that doesn't beat it, I'm sure 5A > 2A does. I don't have training mode on-hand to test but I'm 99% sure forward dash growler isn't free.

Forward dash Growler loses to a lot of things. The real answer is that Growler beats any button and has to be hard baited. You can't RC it for a free get off me, but it's still a get off me. They won't use it as often on wakeup because backdash is just so ridiculous after GF, but that doesn't make wakeup growler bad. It makes it risky, and there's a difference. It's like throwing out a shoryuken in SF4 without the meter to FADC it. You're not looking for a free out, you're looking to make a point: I play Azrael and am manly as fuck. I know you have to guess hard after GF, well here, now guess harder.

He doesn't really need godlike pokes. He needs good pokes, and he has them. 5D when they're magnetized is incredible. besides you only need 1 solid confirm in neutral to bring them close to you so you can just grab them and fuck them

Thoughts on 1.1 changes: 5A nerf is really rough. It makes our confirms more difficult (read: not braindead) and forces us to take really unintuitive/sloppy feeling combos. I really hate the "feel" of this change. That said, it's not all bad news. Less damage sucks, less reward sucks, but it just means we have to be tighter with our resets and know how to convert 5A into a reset situation or better oki. Backdash nerf is crap. Instead of being a solid reversal option, it's basically more of a hard read option now. Used to bait DPs, full-screen rekka type moves, supers, things like that. All characters can option select Tager's pathetically long backdash now, and in the scramble situations where you might be able to get away with it often the animation is long enough for your opponent to 5A punish you anyways. This is probably his worst change. GF meter nerf is, well, also crap. It means we get to do less gimmicks off GF and are required to make more hard reads. This is especially bad in the matchups where GF oki isn't great, but bad in every matchup really. Less meter, less shinanigans, less damage. j.2C buff was necessary and should have been in the game to begin with. Makes confirms more braindead and, well, better. Good, necessary change. 2D buff helps a lot. Makes us able to move forward without being punished for free, but we need to be careful with it still. Makes some new combos possible. 3C change isn't a real buff Overall Tager is worse in 1.1. Some other character changes helped Tager (mainly Kokonoe is now a decent matchup in 1.1), but he still is fundamentally flawed.

Block. Let Ragna poke and walk him to the corner. Counterpoke when possible. 2A/2B's hitbox is surprisingly good for counterpoking 5B. 5C and 5D, like usual, are also good pokes. You can theoretically punish Ragna with IB720 every time he throws out 5C, but in practice it's a bit more difficult. Look below, I made a list!!!! I know IB 720 isn't the easiest punish in the world, but considering how you're walking forward/dancing back and forth a lot of the time, you get IB consistently anyways, so it's just about having the confidence to spin the stick afterwards. Same with IB'ing 6B/Gauntlet Hades, whenever I block an overhead I return the stick to neutral and then tap back as a basic habit so I get IB anyways. And if you fuck it up and gt 5C/2C? You're Tager, you have mad health and you can afford to make some mistakes. Don't s.J in in this matchup, no real point. Backdashing ID is usually a bad idea and unnecessary risk because they can adjust the timing of their DP. If you can make it work, great, but I prefer OD baiting it or just blocking. Let them spend the 50 meter, it's 50 meter they ain't getting back. This matchup is a nightmare online, but when you play offline Ragna's it's fair. 5B uncanceled can be punished with IB 720 5C can be punished with IB 720 5C uncanceled can be punished with raw 720 2C uncanceled can be punished with raw 720 2D can be punished with IB 720 2D can be punished with raw 720 6B can be punished with IB 720 Blood Scythe (grounded) can be punished with 2C on reaction (before hit) Blood Scythe (air) can be punished with 360B/720C. Or 5B. Hell's Fang can be punished with IB 720 Hell's Fang can be "punished" with 5A (not a real punish, but free pressure, except Inferno Divider) Hell's Fang can be punished with a preemptive backdash (early, too late and they recover) Gauntlet Hades (1 hit) can be punished with raw 360B/720C Gauntlet Hades (2 hit) can be punished with like, anything

No. Tager is not A tier at all. (Personal opinion. I'm a midish mid-high level player who is much better at Persona than Blazblue, so take this with a grain of salt) Tager is overall a bad character. He has glaring weaknesses in his gameplan, and ultimately it comes down to him being very inconsistent in a game where all of the top tiers are highly consistent (talking about Oki, but applies to other things as well). What Tager does have is a lot of health and good punishes, so it relies a lot on blocking enough to where your opponent takes an unnecessary risk, or returns to neutral. And Tager's neutral isn't horrible against some character. His pokes are pretty solid and his ground game is definitely respectable. 5A/2A, 5C, 5D, and improved 2D are great. A/B Sledge are surprisingly effective in neutral in a lot of matchups. Games where he can poke/counterpoke to establish his ground game are often 5-5, 6-4, or 4-6 depending on other particulars. Problem is is that a lot of zoners destroy him because of his lack of mobility and he doesn't really have an answer. You know it's a rough situation when most Tager v v13/mu matches almost always end in "Tager wins, or opponent wins by timeout". Arakune and Amane pose issues where Tager is forced to block, but blocking inevitably leads to free damage, forcing us to take risks. Tager v Rachel is insanely difficult because of our large hitbox and lack of a real DP. Chances are if you're losing with Tager it's your fault, but in a tournament setting I really recommend having a basic sub to deal with our bad matchups. Just a Ragna/Jin. ...Or play better, whichever. You can win with any character, it just takes more to win with Tager. If you're an online warrior, I don't recommend Tager. People say Tager is god tier online but try walking forward against 14 frame 1/3rd screen normals in 5 frames of lag. He's a scrub killer, big difference.

Anti-Tager Round Starter Dicks Combo CH 3C > ODC > (walk forward) 6C > j.2C > (walk forward) 5B > 6A > A Sledge > (walk forward) 5A > j.A > j.B > j.5C > j.A > j.B >j.5C > GP (3963 | 28 meter) Anti-Most Character Round Starter Dicks Combo CH 5C > ODC > 5D > 5A > neutral j.A > j.C > j.D > 6C > j.2C > 5B > j.A >j.B >j.5C > GP (3857 | 27 meter | a lot of magnetism) ^This works well against Kagura since I believe he's the only character with a slower poke than ours for roundstart.

I'll get the ball rolling with some 5A's 5A Grounded Non-Magnetized 5A > 5B > 4D (1088 | 7 meter) 5A > 2B > 3C > GF (1235 | 13 meter) 5A > 5B > 2B > 3C > GF (1425 | 14 meter) 5A > 5B > 5C > 3C > GF (1594 | 15 meter) close range on crouching 5A > 5B > 2B > 3C > A Sledge > Hammer (2009 | 14 meter) 5A > 3C > Spark Bolt > 6B > j.2C > GF (2096 | 19 meter) 5A > 5B > 3C > Spark Bolt > 6B > 2C > AC (2465 | 17 meter) 5A > 5B > 2B > 3C > Spark Bolt > 6B > A Sledge > hammer (2439 | 17 meter) 5A > 3C > ODC > 5C > MTW > TB > GF (5121 | 1 meter) 5A > 5B > 3C > MTW > TB (4128 | 0 meter) 5A Grounded Magnetized Note: 5A can be replaced with 2A at start for less damage. 2B can be replaced with 5B at start for less damage. 5A > 2B > 3C > AC (whiff) > 6A > 2C > AC (2281 | 16 meter) 5A > 2B > 3C > AC (whiff) > 6A > 2C > GF (1929 | 18 meter) 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > j.B > j.C > GP (2134 | 15 meter) 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC (2450 | 17 meter) Only works at far ranges 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > 2C > AC > DP Sparkbolt > GP (2751 | 19 meter) 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > 6B > AC > DP Sparkbolt > GP (2774 | 19 meter) 5A > 2B > 3C > AC (whiff) > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > DP Sparkbolt > ODC > MTW > TB > GF (4986 | 1 meter) (Gains 17 meter before MTW > TB. Universal) 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > DP Sparkbolt > ODC > MTW > TB > GF (5218 | 1 meter) (Gains 19 meter before MTW > TB. 5A must hit at far range) 5A Air Non-Magnetized 5A > j.A > j.B > j.C > GP (2035 | 14 meter) CH 5A > j.C > j.D > GP (2122 | 15 meter) CH 5A > sj.B > j.C > j.D > GP (2340 | 16 meter) CH 5A > j.2C > 5B > DP Spark Bolt > 6C > j.2C > GF (2743 | 24 meter) CH 5A > 5D > Spark Bolt > 6C > j.2C > GF (2288 | 20 meter) CH 5A > 6A > 2C > AC > DP Spark Bolt > GP (2901 | 20 meter) CH 5A > j.2C > 5B > Spark Bolt > 6B > 2C > AC (2822 | 20 meter) CH 5A > j.2C > 5B > DP Spark Bolt > 6C > A Sledge > Hammer (2902 | 20 meter) CH 5A > 6A > 2C > AC > DP Spark bolt > ODC > MTW > TB > GF (5253 | 1 meter) Corner only CH 5A > j.C > j.D > 5D (1891 | 13 meter) CH 5A > j.C > j.D > j.2C > GF (2025 | 18 meter) CH 5A > j.C > j.D > j.C > GP (2460 | 17 meter) CH 5A > j.C > j.D > MTW > TB > GF (4496 | 1 meter) 5A Air Magnetized CH 5A > 6A > 2C > AC > GF (2132 | 19 meter) There's more I'm sure but these were the ones I could think of that were useful. Also I don't watch videos much, there may be better alternatives out there. But someone needs to get this rollin'. I bold the ones I consider BnBs. Also unsure how to treat 5B/2B vs 5A/2A, so I just put in the higher damage alternatives. Similar thing with OD. If people want to know how much damage combos do without ODC they can go test it themselves!

Growler DP is perfectly fine in this matchup. All DPs are by nature high risk low reward (except Inferno Divider in Corner, Ragna you bitch). The value of his DP isn't the DP itself but the threat of it. If he shows he's willing to use it it means we're forced to bait it as an option, and give up valuable Oki. And, considering how he has like 4 different options and we need 4 different answers, adding in another answer/option just pushes the guessing game further in his favor. Great Azraels DP great Tagers fairly often. (or just don't GF in this matchup without 50 meter to do some gimmicks)

The Punishes 3C can be punished with IB 720C Clean 3C can be punished with IB 360B if not canceled into A Bunker 3C can be punished with IB 360A if canceled into A bunker (do yourself a favor and just IB 720C and make it easier on yourself) 2B (2 hits) > 5C can be punished with IB A Sledge (doesn't counterhit) 2B (1 hit) > 5C can be punished with raw A Sledge (doesn't counterhit) 6B can be punished with raw 720C at all ranges 6B can be punished with raw 360B at mid - close ranges 6B can be punished with IB 360B at far ranges when magnetized 5C can be punished with IB 720C at all ranges 5C can be punished with raw 720C at close range The 2nd hit of 3C isn't a low, so it's much easier to IB 720 than normal. GF Oki How-To 5D beats Backdash and Teleport if delayed by ~2 frames. Loses to Mashing and jumpout 5A. A sledge > 360B/720C beats both Super Ball and Backdash ("eh" punish for backdash). Loses to Teleport and mashing B sledge beats Super Ball, and leads to a crazy good CH combo, but allows Kokonoe to spend 50 meter to be safe. 5C will beat backdash. Will "Lose" to Teleport, but put us at -5 so technically not punishable, we just get to eat pressure. Loses to mashing and jumpout j.5A. 5A will beat some timings of Backdash, Teleport, and Jumpouts. 360[A] beats Teleport. Loses to Backdash. Can beat Mashing if your reactions are on point. 720[C] beats Backdash, Mashing. Loses to Teleport GF [charge for a few frames] Catches backdash and beats Teleport. Punish Teleport with 5A, GF whiff interacts super weirdly with what side Kokonoe ends up on Delayed 5D and 5A are my usual oki options in the matchup, but I'll use all options (except maybe 360[A]). GF is OK in theory but in practice is hard to make effective. A sledge is surprisingly great once Kokonoe has 50 meter, especially if it's first round. I'm not as big a fan as B sledge, only because if you 5A sledge with 50 meter you can punish Super Ball with 720C or if they backdash you can do a decent 3k A Sledge > RC nonsense combo. I haven't found any option selects. Voltic Charge is really bad in this matchup. Kokonoe's ridiculous runspeed and 3C startup destroys it. Don't charge it for long, but it's OK in short bursts. Kokonoe's j.5A is kind of ridiculous with our huge hitbox, and our anti-airs don't really deal with it that well. 2A is worse than usual, makes 2C the only anti-air I feel like I can use with any consistency.

Played more Arakunes, IB Barrier helps a lot. Thankya!

Really your best option against Nu is to block. Her full-screen mixup isn't strong, and you'll slowly walk her to the corner. You have to choose when to block and when to attack, but for the most part your best option for 90% of this match is to do nothing. Voltic Charge sometimes, block often, throw out pokes rarely and selectively, normal jumping forward is a fine option. This match is crap, but press less buttons and you'll have a lot more luck. Sledge is more often than not an unnecessary risk that should be thrown out when pick & choosed. Oh. And if you're feeling Saucy, 236B beats reversal super for an extremely hard CH punish. Better off blocking, but if you've got them on tilt it's a solid thing to keep in your pocket.

Random tip: I see a lot of Tagers try to punish Azrael backdash with 360[A] after GF. Because GF against Azrael requires you to make hard as hell reads, you might as well go all the way and do optimal punishes. Backdash gets beaten by GF whiff > 360B for more damage, or 6C > 236A > 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > Etc for way more damage than 360A. In addition, the 6C route allows you to end with GP, which is generally better oki against Azrael (ugh). In general, GF oki in this matchup is a total guessing game. Azrael can DP, jump, block, forward dash, or backdash, and for the most part each option requires a different guess from Tager. It's a guess not in your favor whatsoever. Meanwhile when he knocks us down it's almost free pressure. That's what makes the matchup pretty painful. use GP when you can, and when you do GF (unavoidable in some routes) make good as hell reads and punish him the best you can.

Posted this on Twitter but I can't deal with j.4B pressure at all. Aside from being seemingly safe on landing, it's impossible to react to with an anti-air so you have to guess during his blockstrings when he's going to throw it out, and his approach varies enough where 2A timing changes each time. 2C didn't work from 5A/5B > j.4B presssure, AC is a garbage anti-air so it didn't work. Is there another option I'm missing? Normally my primary anti-air as Tager is to block, but against j.4B that's a bad idea.

Hakumen v Tager neutral game is still a struggle for Tager. You're forced to play patiently in the matchup. Voltic Charge is cool but you're giving up space control for a smidgen of Spark Bolt meter, while conversely Hakumen is just playing his poking game to gain meter. Definitely a difficult matchup, but absolutely winnable.

Anyone know of a solid combo off of 2C > OD meterless? I have a crossup 2C shinanigan and currently I'm doing this: 2C > ODC > (jumpback) j.C > j.D > 6C > j.2C > 5B > 5A > 236A > 3C > AC (whiff) > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > Sparkbolt > GP (4579) or, for consistency, 2C > ODC > j.B > j.D etc etc etc etc same combo slightly less damage (4341) (and because sharing is caring, here's the shinanigan https://vine.co/v/Mw9dTMi6rVq/ ) Combo For Dicks: FC j.2C > j.B > j.C > j.A > j.B > j.C > j.A > j.B > j.C > j.A > j.B > j.C > j.A > j.B > j.C > GP > RC > 5B

Any advice for this matchup. I just get blown up, and since I haven't played BB since CT I'm extremely unfamiliar with the matchup. Do we have ways to deal with his pressure? his block strings seem tight, even on IB, until 236D ~ A or 236D ~ C, where I'm pretty sure both are + on block but can 360A through them? Can we do anything about 236236B with an OS on GF oki or do we just have to hard read a Hazama with 50 meter

Because grabbing Amane on GF oki is impossible I was having a lot of difficulty in the matchup because of it so I took some notes. Here's what I got. May be some things I missed. A lot of the piano/backdash options apply to other characters as well. Tager v Amane GF Oki: 5A > 5B > 5D -Piano slowly 5A > 5B >5D, if backdash 5A (WHiff) 5D comes out, on block or hit 5A > 5B comes out -Beats jumpout, confirm into 5A > 5B > 3C > AC (whiff) > 6A > 2C > xx -Beats 6B. But MUST confirm. Confirm into 5A > 5B > j.5A > j.5B > j.5C > GP -Puts into blockstring if Backdashed. Sometimes punishes if they do something dumb (double backdash, backdash > normal) 360A/360B -don't do it in this matchup lmao you fuckin idiot -360A charge doesn't even beat Backdash 5A > 2C > 5D Plink 5A 2C, piano 5D -punishes 6B really hard -Can confirm 5A > 2C into 4D/Sledge for continued pressure if they block, or AC for combo. -On backdash, 5D comes out -On non-CH, whiffed 2C means you get punished hard. -a pretty good option 5A > Spark Bolt > xx -punishes 6B without needing to confirm -punishes jumpout without needing to confirm -trades with mash 5A (non-IB) in your favor -loses to mash 5A (IB) -Puts in blockstun on Backdash, or punishes (depending on post-backdash option) -A Great Option, but uses valuable resources. Best used at end of round. 3C -Punishes any timing Backdash very hard -Leads into 3.5K damage combo (with GP, 3.2k with Atomic Collider oki) -Loses to 6B -Is punishable on jumpout by j.5B/j.2B -Loses to Mashing -is OK on block -If you want to make a hard read, use 3C, because Command Grab is super bad in this matchup Jump forward j.B (air to ground) or j.A (air to air) -OK option but not great. Amane can anti-air on reaction if he's on point. -Main advantage is it beats Reversal Super (Read below) 5B -Beats jumpout, but so does 5A -Leads to 3.5kish damage if they jumpout and don't barrier, but is a hard read -Loses to mashing -Loses to first-frame Backdash (beats mistimed backdashes) Gadget Finger -Catches Backdash -Catches jumpout -Loses to 6B -Loses to Mashing OPTIONS AGAINST REVERSAL DP any normal/special loses clean (duh) Jump Backwards land 5B -Wins Cleanly, and leads to a solid 3.5k punish. If they don't reversal DP you're left floundering and lost all your oki, so it's a hard read -j.5B near landing makes 5B punish easier, but isn't necessary Jump Fowards Spark Bolt -Wins Cleanly but uses resources. If they don't DP you can continue pressure. A Great Option -shows you're a smart cookie who knows how to play this game Block -Wins. Obviously -They can RC to make it safe Voltic Charge -Wins, builds a shitload of meter -Can 720C, 360B after a full charge -looks hella rad and sweet -Risky but dawg you look so smart

Wowowowow that GP crossup and RC 5A reset, so smart

Oh, definitely, but it's a nice braindead confirm off of 2C when you're not sure if it'll counterhit or not, and at what height they'll get smacked at. If I'm not confident in the height for 2C>(delay)236A and I have the meter I'll go for AC>RC>4D. I'm sure as hell not going to sneeze at 4.4k

It's fancy looking, but RC 4D is much more consistent and gets the same results. RC 360A is pretty tight on timing. Also, I was under the impression that AC>sjC whiff>jB>5B was only optimal if they weren't magnetized? Am I doing a wrong combo, or is it just used more often because of corner push? I'm only curious because I have a 4.4k midscreen combo I'm using magnetized of 2C>AC>RC>4D whiff>5C>6[A]>2C>GF whiff>5A>5B>5C>6[A]>2C>GF whiff 5A>5B>j.A>j.B>j.C>GP. I'm sure it can be optimized more, but I'm really terrible at optimizing combos.