Kane-Z

Ok. I just finished. It took me a while because I was double checking the combos along with the dmg. The majority of the combos (85%) were from the jpn wiki but I also added a few that we have been discussing and that I have seen Ogawa use in matches. Please feel free to correct me if you see anything wrong. I also added a couple of my own notes. Because the template for the combo thread still hasn't been decided the order is still pretty much all over the place but I think that could be easily fixed later. Excuse me for any grammatical mistakes. Most of the combos were tested on Sol. I'll just leave this here for now: http://pastebin.com/ms8EYrL9 EDIT: Forgot to write one more setup. Fixed.

A few more Ogawa matches from a couple of days ago: 12/27/14 Ogawa (ZT) vs Sanma (VE) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgsEjmTw_fI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OlvGmIHiKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeTHPsMv0UU Ogawa (ZT) vs Nage (FA) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=becyTejAfOM Ogawa (ZT) vs Roi (SO) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAnfOWikJsM Ogawa (ZT) vs Umecha (Ram) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YRPpcn3xKU Ogawa (ZT) vs JUN (MI) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrcK0x7bTvQ Ogawa (ZT) vs OsakaB (FA) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Y_wxGWeOc

The standard wallstick setup is basically the second combo in my video above. Just replace the Shadow Gallery with another Mawaru to make it a bit easier. Our goal right now is to consistently get the Ogawa 1 hit SG combo for a hard knockdown instead of just an air combo after the unblockable.

The timing for the -D > dash HS (3) > HS Drill ub seems to be a bit finicky as well when compared to the standard wallstick setup. I guess we can still go into the wallstick setup with a low number of SG loop reps.

Damage seems to be pretty much the same. It's just another way to go into Shadow Gallery loop. Feels a bit more practical since it starts from our mix up and we don't need to burn meter.

A practical way to go into the SG loop from a Mawaru mix up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM0gFS1t1Jk Sorry if I mistimed the first unblockable. I was in a bit of a hurry to upload.

New Ogawa matches (12/27/14): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_-UoHeOR5E

That setup is actually valid. It's pretty standard by now (assuming you mean 6P > 2HS > S Drill > ub). Nice video JG. EDIT: Actually, I just tested after I noticed he did 3 reps of the shadow gallery loop and the dummy indeed techs after the S drill. In order to work we should use eitherwhat thegame4ever suggested or only 2 reps of the SG loop.

I was thinking about creating a combo thread by translating the combos from the jpn wiki. Their wiki page is actually fairly complete right now and even ranks Zato's combos in terms of usefulness. However, I'm not sure if Biscuits has anything else planned for it but at least we would get some kinda of discussion going.

I can confirm this. I bought the jpn version and after the patch I been getting 12 frames delays even with other players from the West Coast here in NA. Hopefully this issue will be solved soon.

Gotcha, I guess I was overthinking. As long as we have the opponent in some kinda of blockstun it should usually be safe to unsummon and continue our pressure. Nice unblockable route.

Well, actually that drill is supposed to put the opponent in blockstun (I forgot to add but the drill is released with a Nobiru). I might have to modify that blockstring a bit but I could end with HS drill as well (if I let all the hits from f.S hit). The YRC just makes the unsummon safer but it's probably unnecessary. My friend seems to have some experience with playing against Eddies back in Reload so he often blocks the high/low mix up after the Mawaru. I'm just wondering whats the best way to safely unsummon and restart the pressure again. I guess it really depends on the matchup but some general tips on how to safely unsummon would be nice.

Another question for more experienced Zato players. What do you guys usually do if the opponent blocks our first mixup? I assume its better not to use Mawaru again since the Eddie gauge is past the halfway point and just unsummon Eddie right away and start again? Like I been working on this string but I'm not sure how honest it is: Knockdown > summon > -K > dash > j.LK > dj.LK-HS or dj.S-HS (opponent blocks right here) > -S > land > 2P > 2K > f.S > 2S > S Drill > unsummon > YRC > summon Nobiru from the drill puddle > dash 2K > -K > Start mix up again. Of course I would insert a -P > cmd grab now and then after the first mixup gets blocked. Do I have the right idea or would most experienced players easily escape? Basically, how do I make them respect our blockstrings and stop the mashing? I would like to ask that question as well. I'm guessing we just summon Nobiru from the puddle under the opponent but we have to be careful not to become too predictable. If they wake up pressing any buttons it should be a free counter hit. I'm trying to capitalize more on CH Nobirus from mid screen as well.

Yeah, both ub setups that Mr.Biscuits and president posted are working fairly well for me. Ogawa seems to be using that 6P setup as well. As a new Zato player I have a few questions about his neutral game. I believe Nobiru is his best AA when he already has the Shadow out? Sometimes I see players jumping straight at me but I don't have enough time to summon and release S in time. The startup seems a bit too slow. Should I just use 2H or 6P instead or just work on my reactions? For summoning the Shadow Mr.Biscuit already mentioned in his video that we should establish a knockdown first but are there certain circumstances that we can summon safely during blockstrings? For example, using something like this: 2P > 2K > f.S > 2S > Summon > -P Also, usually if I land a mawaru and I'm too far from the corner I just try to go for a simple knockdown > meaty drill > resummon. Like this: Mawaru hits > P > [K] > S > -K > P > 2D > unsummon > meaty S drill > resummon Is that fine or should I go for a nobiru juggle for better corner carry at the sacrifice of the guaranteed knockdown? Some tips with dealing with upclose pressure? Thanks.

Awesome, that makes sense. I was probably releasing Nobiru either way too early or late. I'm going to mess around with the timing a bit more. Thanks a lot.

Hello everyone, I have a small question about Shadow Gallery. What are the requirements to make the SG > Nobiru wall stick and untechable in the corner? Is it a matter of air height or is a matter of being in the correct distance? Thanks.

Hello there, this is Kane. Yeah, a friend of mine has the same problem (hence why I uploaded that video). Just start buffering the super jump as soon as you hit boost (during the first IAD j.A > j.D) and hit J.A or you way up. The air combo for his standard setup is hj.ABABAB air dash AB (or AD). For more information make sure to check the Kenshiro wiki translated by our fellow poster Mashu: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Kenshiro

A good CS > VO combo you could use mid screen is this: 5B > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236+A > 66C > 236+C > CS > VO > 214+C > 623+B > 41236+D In the corner its a bit more annoying to set it up because we need the right spacing for the VO activation to whiff. You could do a variation like in the video: BnB ending with 236+A > jump back j.[C] > land > 236+C > CS > VO > 41236+D When you jump back with j.[C] it puts him in the right position for the VO activation to whiff. Honestly, I haven't been very sucessful with this setup because if you are late the 236+C completely whiffs. So you have to jump back and land that j.[C] pretty late in order to connect that 236+C wheel. If anybody has better alternatives please share.

I think hit & confirming 22C from 22A/B is not a bad but the damage is kinda low if you are planning to burn meter. Best I could get is around 2900-3000 by doing 3 specials (236+B > 623+B 2x). If you choose to settle 2 puddles + 623+B the damage is around 2900. Getting concentration and GRD is always good though. On the other hand with 214+C you can get 3200 if you choose to just end with 3B > 2C for the oki and you could always cancel that last 2C into 22C/236+C/ 623+C for the kill. Also, the combo itself corner carries as well and we all know how much Carmine loves that corner. For 236+C I think its fine for the corner but the wheel often misses at max range from mid screen like Magaki already mentioned. Good idea about CS canceling the spikes during our blockstrings. So far I have been CS canceling 214+A/B on block but 22A could be a better option.

Well, this might seem a bit obvious but if they are outside the 2C range you could always CS the 22A/B and dash forward with 2C > 6B > 2C....etc. Another alternative would be canceling the 22A into 214+C and going for a bnb.

I was actually having the same problem. I think it has to do with how close to the opponent Carmine is before the 3B > 2C > 623+A/B > 66C (or 2C > 623+A/B) ender. This is especially a problem for corner combos. For example, this corner combo: (Blood puddle ON) 5A > 5B > 2C > 236A > 66C > 236B > J.[C] > j.B > 2C > 623A > 66C I usually have to neutral jump my j.[C] in order to be in the right distance to land 66C. You can also try delaying 623+A a bit but if you are too close Carmine will dash under. Also, I'm not sure if he tends to go under certain opponents more often than others. Magaki: Excellent write up Magaki. Your post was very helpful. Thank you. About another use for 63214+C. I often see Note go for that during blockstrings after a cancelled upclose 236+A (ex: 5A > 5B > 236+A > 63214+C). Not sure how safe that is but I think its fine to throw it out now and then to open people up. I'm definitively not using this move as often as I should.

A good mid screen 100 VO combo I been using is this: 5B > 2C > J6B > 2C > 236A > CS > VO(Whiff) > 214C > 623B > 5B > j.A > j.B > j.C > 3B > 6C > 41236D If you don't feel confident in landing this online you can also simplify and skip the 5B > air combo part and go straight to 41236D from 623B for around 100 less. Also, a good corner carry combo i noticed Note sometimes go for is: 5B > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 66C > 214+[A] > 5B > release A > J.[C] > j.B > 2C > Ender Magaki, Is it fine to end blockstrings with 214+[A] to initiate the wheel pressure or should I stick with 22A just to be safe? After a few days in the lab, I jumped online for the first time yesterday and I had the worst time against characters like Linne and Seth with strong up close pressure. What do you think it should be the general strategy against those characters? Should we zone and usually stay around the max range of pokes such as 5B, 5C, and 2C? What are some good frame traps / blockstrings we should definitively keep in mind (besides 236+A > 214+[A] > release A or 22A > 623+B) Basically, what is the best wait to initiate our blood pressure? Thanks.

Transcript http://in-birth.wikia.com/wiki/Carmine_(Gameplay) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ixpyawNbg For visual reference.

I know its been almost an year since somebody last posted in this topic but I might as well ask. Can anyone provide some solid advice/guidelines for the Bulleta vs Zabel matchup? Thanks

I'll be there today for AE practice and I might bring a setup with Savior, GGAC+R, and Jojo for anybody that wants to play.