Manta

What Tager therefore needs is moves that a strong on a Yomi layer (To say that rude word) that's above what new players operate on. Heck, it'd probably be better if all of his strengths were anti-airs and his ground to ground play sucked. But that's a little extreme.

Every move has a fixed time where if it hits you whilst you're airborne, you can't recover. This time gets shorter slightly as the combo prorates more and more. The advance input feature of BB lets you input a tech up to 5 frames sooner than you can if you are still holding down the button when you can tech. So rhythmic mashing can actually work most of the time. The real issue is more that trying to tech asap every time will just get you destroyed by experienced players who will know when you can recover and be waiting with a throw or some other well timed move to pressure you further (Or with Tager, a complete unblockable). Mix it up, and learn which moves are desirable for teching and which are not and when.

It's not double (210 against 275), but it still makes a difference.

Glad to help, next thing you need to learn is to hitconfirm into your combos.

It's an odd one really. 360A compared to 360B does less damage, has way more recovery, starts up slower and doesn't auto grab and you seldom use the suck in effect. You're trading in all of that for a 3~11 invulnerability. Is that ultimately worth it? I can't honestly say, because I think I use 360A way more than B, but not sure if I should. Incidentally, I DO use the magnetism on 720C to great effect at some outrageous ranges, Few people expect a throw at half a screen's width and can throw out some very unsafe moves. (E.g. Makoto trying to use breakshot) EDIT: 360A apparently has better reach than, 360B. That explains a lot. Thanks arcsys for clear animations on that matter.

Random shit happens, like if someone lands in front of you and tries to jump out of a throw. A quick throw might catch them whilst they're still in landing recovery.

It's less likely to be jumped out of/Reversaled. But that doesn't mean I justify it.

Try not to think that moving towards your opponents and throwing out random attacks is the way to accomplish anything. In order to get in on an opponent, you first must make him respect you. Act like you're trying to approach and bait his counters to that. For example jump at them and airdash away. If he does his DP then punish it. Then he'll learn not to do that so much. Then you can actually use that as an approach method. Once he's blocking your stuff, then you can try to crack his defense with mixups and frametraps. Also, Jin has a few tricks for approaching. Chasing a 236C or 236D will force your opponent to block before you start attacking, and you can use that cover to go for some mixup. Jin's high low game is pretty poor, but he can cross up well. Again, conditioning works well here. Once they see the 236C coming you'll at first condition them to block (Because they were getting hit trying to stuff your dash in), then you can do outrageous stuff like running ahead of the sword and then doing a throw. This is mostly based on what Jin players have done to me, and I'm sure there's a lot more to it.

Here's an interesting idea for Tager regarding his mobility (Shamelessly stolen from victor in Vampire savior): a 2-3F startup command jump that puts him in the air just long enough to get a j.D out. Basically gives him a low/throw invulnerability move. Using it with j.B would basically be megafist. Using it as an empty jump would be some kind of throw tic.

You're quite right, was typing that inbetween rounds on netplay. Editing original post.

Double post, but here's a nice 4D CH combo for you: 4D CH 6B > 2C > AC x2 6B > 2C > AC, 4D > 22D Gotta like the 4D pulldown. First 6B 2C can be replaced with 5C > 6A which is easier but sliiightly less damage/

It's quite deliberately not the case though. Don't you think it's odd that the untech time of 5B is ONE FRAME shorter than the startup of 5C? Equally, 6C starts up 2 frames slower than 5C's untech. It's like they were designing FC combos into Tager just to taunt him.

It would also mean ...3C, 5B > 5C > 6A > 623C... would be legit without an FC.

Would make some decent oki though if we just let them drop and either 5B them near the floor or just let them fall.

It just occurs to me how else we got screwed in the CS2 patch: Where the hell's our wallbound arcsys? Having it on forward throw or air hit 5/4/2D would've been kinda nice.

I didn't think you could do 22D unless they've been knocked down at some point in the combo, and if they have, I'd like so see how you'd make 5D stagger someone without a GF RC

5A can still be cancelled into normal throw according to frame data. It's.... something I guess. On another note, has anyone had a loot at the possibility of .... 5D (RC) > 360B to catch the stagger recovery sweet spot?

Surely you'd just go for the B Driver if you were going to do that, Normal throw's for the unsure.

You have 4 frames of purple throw after they land from GF, meaning an ASAP 360B will purple even now (as does 720, duh). 360A would never purple unless you RC'd. Does mean if you want a reasonably safe followup to GF, try B+C. If they jump out, it's recovered too quick for them to react to (unlike 360B), if they push buttons, you get a throwcounter and if they just tech the purple throw, then you're just back to neutral. Am I right in thinking that the throw tech distance you get is good for a 5D poke after? Haven't really tried.

Or you could do what I often do and replace GF in combos with 5B > 4D because eh.

But cancelling 5A into itself would mean you strike them right as they recover and get a very strange reset, assuming they don't block.

Poke them in the eye with 5A and force them to stand.

So okay, let's have a discussion about something that currently exists rather than dreaming of the next incarnation. Say I've got my back to the wall and somehow I squeeze in a 360A in their pressure. Is GF even a good followup in such a situation or should I just get out of the corner whilst I can?

Nubbiest tech trap yet, surprised it's not listed: Midscreen: ...AC, 2D, 5D (whiff), (Insert Gadget finger-esque mixup) Only works if they neutral tech, if they don't then the 5D will whiff and you're not really any worse off. EDIT: Double nubby trap: Starting with: 5D/4D (ch) or spark bolt 5C > 6A > 2C > 623[C] Loses only to a well timed tech and quick air move, all other times you either get the collider reset or just bluebeat them for decent damage.

And then what? They're usually airdashing at that height meaning that by the time we finish backdashing, we're at a disadvantage and they can poke as they fall down.