Sol Badguy Z AC

Ryyudo Sorry man. It works pretty well for me. I'll try to summarize more than piece-by-piece. It’s more my posting style and how the interface works. When quoting, I can’t simply highlight and press the quote button and label it as “this user said this”, and there’s a bunch of glitches where I can’t press enter to go to the next line, can’t bold, can’t unbold, can’t type before it, can’t type after it (sometimes the red line with the arrow that you have to click on to go to the next line doesn’t show), etc. Since I stopped using the quote system, I've saved massive amounts of time. Yes, I'm not disagreeing he GETS shenanigans off his Drill Cancel, I'm more on the point of once he gets to a safe point of using it, he gets 1 or 2, MAYBE 3, chances at, possibly disrespect-able, mix ups. That’s quite a bit, even for this low damage output you faust players claim he has. If you don't WANT to block, that's your prerogative and your playstyle. That's fine. Just consider that you're taking away one of the game's options for you to use, instead of directly blaming the character for clashing directly with your playstyle. The only reason I can think of Faust players keeping other players locking the corner for "longer" is because Faust needs that many more combos/opportunities to kill. Okay, let me clear that up. I mean I don’t want to continuously sit there blocking his shit. As one once said about how to fight Sol in a youtube video, the longer they get away with their bullshit, the worse it’s going to be for you. So regardless of his bad damage output, he’s definitely going to get it what with his ability to keep you in the corner far longer than say, anyone other than Zato and Elphelt. I see a lot of "deserve buttwhooping" and "getting full punish". I don't believe that's the proper way to handle Faust; Faust is just not that kind of character. He's a character who focuses on control (over the screen, locking down, etc.) Hitting him proper, even if it's not a full punish, is taking that control away. Your taking Faust's strongest and major gameplan away from him and it becomes easier to run ship on him. Once you start running ship too, it's harder for him to get out. Faust doesn't have as mashable moves during gaps, so it requires good defense and decision making to get out instead of using a 3-4f jab to abuse gaps. Things such as Dust (YRC) (still don't agree this is an "anti-air" as it doesn't discourage someone from being in the air, but that's just semantics at this point as I see where you're coming from now), particular pokes in response to jumps or IBing into a quick poke, etc. all require a level of precision and thus difficulty. It's not free outs or easy, they're just options that are good in particular situations, just like the rest of his moveset. I still say his defense is weaker, not just because of his defense/guts level, but because it requires blocking and knowing options/spacing to get out of a bad situation. A bad situation that could lead to some hiiiigh damage against Faust. Well then you and me need to trade video suggestions then. I don’t particularly seek out Nage faust videos, but his ass always seems to be the one in every video I’m watching. I currently watch Acho, Goldenrody, and Mikado for GGXrd matches. I’ve recently watched a Karinchu get bodied a few times against Faust, and see that it seems a little unfair that Karinchu’s Johnny was down by half life after less than 10 seconds into a particular round. This seems to be a common trend in most Faust’s matchups - that he eats away at the opponent's lifebar little by little, but still fairly quickly - but I haven’t seen a matchup chart anywhere to find ANY of his elusive (to me) bad matchups. So help me out with some Faust vids, will ya? I want to see him take flak as much as you say he does (or can). Don’t get me wrong, I never thought he was the best character in the game, I simply think he’s full of shit. Especially because of things like meteor, bomb and little faust. The first two gives him the damage he’s looking for and Mini-me gives him almost endless command throw setups as long as he’s trotting along. You're right about his items: The good outweigh the bad. Otherwise this move wouldn't be useful (of course). And yes, his moves are meant to keep you in the zones of the items while he stays away safely. Still, it seems like the issue here is respecting Faust's abilities. You dislike how he can punish people jumping in. Just like in Street Fighter: don't jump. Especially since this game has a lot more movement options than SF: running with FD braking, FD blocking in air if you think the Faust will try to AA, divekicking an AA attempt, heck even moves that move you forward with a low-profile like Grand Viper or the Ky Slip 'N Slide (glad you like this name :>) makes Faust have to react or guess to what you're doing. Faust still has a game to play out, it's not JUST willy-nilly "whatever just throw out this move because it's awesome." And that’s the problem. His item toss is less of a gamble than what you make it out to be. And with all manner of fuckery on the ground to obscure you, telling someone not to jump is almost akin to saying “lols, don’t fight back :P “. At some point it’s a necessity. You'd be correct in "honest" means "not full of bullshit". Because he's not. He has tricks and everything, but he doesn't net ridiculous damage from a single mistake, his moves are straightforward for the most part and often can be handled one-at-a-time (more pokes, less up-close pressure), little in the way of ridiculous mixups or truly forcing an opponent to block (Zato/Millia). Hard to see != forced to respect, especially in the same way you would for Zato/Millia/Elphelt's (for some characters). Just as every Faust poke is used to counter something, each poke has its own shortcomings that can be countered too. Of course, it's not easy (that's the point), but a mistake with a small punish usually turns into a lack of control for Faust. That's where other characters really do a lot more of what they want, but they still gotta do it well or intelligently. Knockdown, like pretty much all characters in this game, is where Faust's game of control really starts. Okay okay…. Hmmm. Though I don’t think I’ll ever see him as not full of shit. I was okay with him back in the early GG days all the way up to Slash, and then AC seems to be where I think I started hating him more. Before AC, I’m pretty sure his damage output was better back then, but then again, everyone’s was, so I didn’t care. (btw, 2P, 2D doesn't combo, even on CH. Don't fear it super badly from max range, it's a tool to keep opponents in check and to keep them out quickly, not just to combo even if it can from close range. Otherwise it's just a frame trap/a way for Faust to get his control game started as 2D is jump and special cancel-able) Good to know, thanks. Also, without going too much into it as you're not sure of the version; it sounds like you're talking about BlazBlue Continuum Shift where Rachel did jack for damage but still had decent wind gimmicks. It was definitely one of the Chrono Phantasma’s (since balance patches come out now, I kinda refer to them as reiterations or stand alone games despite the fact that they’re not). Ragna takes at least 3 and a ½ (maybe) combos to kill most characters in that game, and despite having a higher damage output than her, she ran train on him with her instant overhead bullshit and her 93 chances at rushdown where no answer he had was safe for dealing with her. It was a massacre worse than the Texas Chainsaw.

Kinda busy today guys, but I'll address stuff eventually.

He wanted it to be a combo ender that knocks opponents down, but he never said what it would do if it hit someone in any other circumstance.

Oh I've seen it. Of course not in person. We did so much dumb shit in the early 2000s I can't remember it all. He lost my money at Evo 2015, and now I'm having him watch 10 Blazblue combo videos as punishment.

Uh, if you haven't taken the time to read the frame data and don't know anything about attack levels (a set of categories for attacks that determine things like hitstun, blockstun, and hitstop; that's been used in pretty much every ArcSys fighter), then yes, I would very much say that you lack an understanding of the mechanics of the game. Knowing how to play and seeing things happen in videos, you may very well learn what works, but without researching anything about attack properties and frames, you won't be able to determine why it works; and balance changes affect what works by directly changing the why. Suggesting changes on attack and character attributes without knowing anything about actual current state and values is akin to rolling dice with balance. Well, it's the first time I've ever heard of a fighting game resorting to a sort of table for all attacks. I guess I don't know shit then. LOL :V Ouch. But fine, I get you, I get you. ****************************************************** Well then, from here on out, shall we speak of low tier characters who need buffs? I'd like to know more about what that guy Naka was talking about. I know they nerfed Ram, and buffed Pot, but apparently they're still ass. Can we point out what problems they have now how they can possibly be addressed?

See this kinda helps. If this is a rule in guilty gear, then okay, I didn't know that. I normally tend to think of this stuff in coding terms, where all values are determined separately (yeah, I fux with mugen - not that this feature is a staple only to mugen, know this).

DaiAndOh Hey man, I was infected with Steve's constant complaining. What can I say? He only ever does it around me for whatever reason, maintaining a quiet more laid back demeanor around everyone else when playing. And no, I don't play in Xanadu tournaments. I have financial instability, so I can only ever afford to play online or on house visits. I also got no ride. Maybe some time in the near future. greatfernmanI just think you were being dumb by suggesting balance without understanding the game. All you guys have proven is that I don't know guilty gear related terms and am probably iffy on some of the terms that I do bring up. That does NOT justify such an incredibly broad statement as my not understanding the game. I watch more matches than I actually play, and hell, I even complain in place of the player who was bullshitted. I'll admit I made a few dumb mistakes jumping into thread creation without testing stuff before making suggestions for buffing Sol. Though we didn't really go through the entire cast yet, and I like buffing everyone up, normally.

It's more that you think that I think I'm high level. I believe I've referred many times to other "better" Sols/players throughout the thread.

mAc Chaos Yes, if someone doesn't know the info they're basing their suggestions on then chances are their suggestions won't make sense. I see them mostly picking at the fact that I don't know the jargon, which isn't a necessity to know what's going on, nor do you need to know frame data to know when something's abuseable when you see it whored out in every match of top players. Nage isn't the only Faust. Instead of taking offense from people pointing out learning those things you should embrace it. I think I'm good on the whole frame data thing. I've played the game for 15 years without knowing it and still manage to be good at it. I've also gotten this far without the terminology too. Especially if you want them to take your attitude seriously. What attitude? I understand how they see me, and they choose to be asses about it. Regardless of whatever I say, I don't have control over them, they are free to scoff at me, and I'm free to dismiss their scoffing. And beating you or you beating them wouldn't prove your suggestion is right anyway. Don't fall for the bait dude. Overwhelmed with replies, I decided to play around too. Speaking of attitude, drop the whole "I'm laughing at you" "No I'm laughing at you" stuff. I don't want to lock the thread, but I will if it continues. That goes for everyone else too. I'm only returning what I'm being given. If I'm going to be punished for constantly telling them that they don't affect me as much as they think they do, then so be it. Should I apologize for having a lack of shame? You have a thread here for potentially constructive discussion about balance, use it for that. I'll delete and/or infract if it's just useless driveby trolling. Yeah, and it'd be nice for people to acknowledge what's being stated about certain subjects without them strawmaning the holy hell out of me. I was not aware that Sol was near top, though I did know he was pretty high in this game. I did hear that Zato, Faust, and Elphelt were top three (which may mean that my knowledge may be dated, the way they're reacting). @Naka I really want to read a topic full of information and analyzing about characters that REALLY need a tweak. We stuck nearly 6 pages adressed the 2 already good balanced characters that won't need any change until the whole game evolve into a different meta than now and try to lecture(somewhat) a guy who insist on demanding overwhelming buff/neff on both char. I repeat myself, I really want to know your thought about Potemkin and Ramlethal. On the last page Flick posted some interesting contents about Potemkin. I'm waiting to see some discussion here since someone finally light thing up on this topic. And this is what I'm talking about. We've already been over why my buffs to Sol are bad, this is no longer an issue. We've already been over the context of what I meant when referring to the entire list of nerfs I would've given to Faust, yet the only two serious nerfs I suggested have yet to be shot down objectively. Now the topic seems to be shifting towards "How big is your wallet that you can suggest anything?", which is kind of a fallacious statement akin to "you can't draw, so you can't critique". What's wrong with discussing why changes are bad? Do I need to be somebody to complain about stuff I don't like in a fighting game? If you're going to bring up a counterpoint, do it, otherwise I will still find the changes viable.

You guys seem to think that because someone complains a lot, doesn't know GG related jargin, doesn't look up frame data and doesn't know what an attack level is, that they're not qualified to suggest anything. Well, here's another person who doesn't know any of that shit. Feel you can beat him? Feel you can beat me?

Over the phone with me while I was composing the list.

Mai-ahIn that retort, we ignore the difference between in game reference and stuff coined by the FGC. So you're saying I have to REFERENCE a keypad, right? So what happens when you use a calculator on your job often that has the numbers reversed? EDIT: Also, I'm going to keep beating the hell out of this until someone says something. Fuck this shit, Steve H gets away with a lot of bullshit in game, I'll be damned if he does it in real life too. STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC. WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS?

Anyway, I'll probably be online sometime soon. Get reckt if you like - you all know where to bring it. EDIT: Also, I'm going to keep beating the hell out of this until someone says something. Fuck this shit, Steve H gets away with a lot of bullshit in game, I'll be damned if he does it in real life too. STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC. WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS?

I also said I don't use terminology that needs a point of reference either. But you conveniently missed that point, didn't you? How am I supposed to know what 4676845k is again?

I'm curious what responses I missed. I've read all of your posts since the one I originally responded to and I don't see you acknowledging the things you say you are. You made claims on the page 4 of the thread about Faust's 'awesome recovery' and 'all the benefits of a character who can reach across the entire screen with very little of the drawbacks' but I didn't see you saying 'oh, I see there are ways around Faust's ranged game' or anything like that, which is why I responded to that point. Someone other than me responded earlier about Faust bullshit and I haven't seen a need to provide input. I believe some of you simply downplayed his statements, and therefore I thought okay, no point going any further with that. Probably faust bias :P The hurtbox thing is what it is. Lots of weird character-specific combos is a guilty gear thing in general and applies to everybody. If hurtboxes (during combos) were more standardized (though character weight and stuff matters too), it might actually help Faust. As a Faust player, I have combos that only work (or are far more consistent on) other Fausts. I looked at the first page of the Pot combo thread, and there are a bunch of combos that only work on Faust and only a handful of others. No character in any of the guilty gears has had a hurtbox like XRD Faust where he can reach lower to attack than he can get punished. You guys keep bringing this shit up about other character's hitboxes, and I refuse to acknowledge the strawman. Where as changing your combo to deal with specific character's weights and etc is one thing, characters missing combos from anti airs because his big bendy ass contracts upward into nothing is another. He's the only character in the game that does that. You call using his drill his 'shorthop' OMFG. Seriously? Seriously? I've refered to his drill as a drillkick, or a divekick. I refered to 'that other thing' - which you should know what I'm talking about as a "faust player" - as a shorthop. Hell, even Chipp can only stop his air momentum and fall back down. Faust legitimately has a shorthop that can be used as an option select theoretically.