Sol Badguy Z AC

Ryyudo Sorry man. It works pretty well for me. I'll try to summarize more than piece-by-piece. It’s more my posting style and how the interface works. When quoting, I can’t simply highlight and press the quote button and label it as “this user said this”, and there’s a bunch of glitches where I can’t press enter to go to the next line, can’t bold, can’t unbold, can’t type before it, can’t type after it (sometimes the red line with the arrow that you have to click on to go to the next line doesn’t show), etc. Since I stopped using the quote system, I've saved massive amounts of time. Yes, I'm not disagreeing he GETS shenanigans off his Drill Cancel, I'm more on the point of once he gets to a safe point of using it, he gets 1 or 2, MAYBE 3, chances at, possibly disrespect-able, mix ups. That’s quite a bit, even for this low damage output you faust players claim he has. If you don't WANT to block, that's your prerogative and your playstyle. That's fine. Just consider that you're taking away one of the game's options for you to use, instead of directly blaming the character for clashing directly with your playstyle. The only reason I can think of Faust players keeping other players locking the corner for "longer" is because Faust needs that many more combos/opportunities to kill. Okay, let me clear that up. I mean I don’t want to continuously sit there blocking his shit. As one once said about how to fight Sol in a youtube video, the longer they get away with their bullshit, the worse it’s going to be for you. So regardless of his bad damage output, he’s definitely going to get it what with his ability to keep you in the corner far longer than say, anyone other than Zato and Elphelt. I see a lot of "deserve buttwhooping" and "getting full punish". I don't believe that's the proper way to handle Faust; Faust is just not that kind of character. He's a character who focuses on control (over the screen, locking down, etc.) Hitting him proper, even if it's not a full punish, is taking that control away. Your taking Faust's strongest and major gameplan away from him and it becomes easier to run ship on him. Once you start running ship too, it's harder for him to get out. Faust doesn't have as mashable moves during gaps, so it requires good defense and decision making to get out instead of using a 3-4f jab to abuse gaps. Things such as Dust (YRC) (still don't agree this is an "anti-air" as it doesn't discourage someone from being in the air, but that's just semantics at this point as I see where you're coming from now), particular pokes in response to jumps or IBing into a quick poke, etc. all require a level of precision and thus difficulty. It's not free outs or easy, they're just options that are good in particular situations, just like the rest of his moveset. I still say his defense is weaker, not just because of his defense/guts level, but because it requires blocking and knowing options/spacing to get out of a bad situation. A bad situation that could lead to some hiiiigh damage against Faust. Well then you and me need to trade video suggestions then. I don’t particularly seek out Nage faust videos, but his ass always seems to be the one in every video I’m watching. I currently watch Acho, Goldenrody, and Mikado for GGXrd matches. I’ve recently watched a Karinchu get bodied a few times against Faust, and see that it seems a little unfair that Karinchu’s Johnny was down by half life after less than 10 seconds into a particular round. This seems to be a common trend in most Faust’s matchups - that he eats away at the opponent's lifebar little by little, but still fairly quickly - but I haven’t seen a matchup chart anywhere to find ANY of his elusive (to me) bad matchups. So help me out with some Faust vids, will ya? I want to see him take flak as much as you say he does (or can). Don’t get me wrong, I never thought he was the best character in the game, I simply think he’s full of shit. Especially because of things like meteor, bomb and little faust. The first two gives him the damage he’s looking for and Mini-me gives him almost endless command throw setups as long as he’s trotting along. You're right about his items: The good outweigh the bad. Otherwise this move wouldn't be useful (of course). And yes, his moves are meant to keep you in the zones of the items while he stays away safely. Still, it seems like the issue here is respecting Faust's abilities. You dislike how he can punish people jumping in. Just like in Street Fighter: don't jump. Especially since this game has a lot more movement options than SF: running with FD braking, FD blocking in air if you think the Faust will try to AA, divekicking an AA attempt, heck even moves that move you forward with a low-profile like Grand Viper or the Ky Slip 'N Slide (glad you like this name :>) makes Faust have to react or guess to what you're doing. Faust still has a game to play out, it's not JUST willy-nilly "whatever just throw out this move because it's awesome." And that’s the problem. His item toss is less of a gamble than what you make it out to be. And with all manner of fuckery on the ground to obscure you, telling someone not to jump is almost akin to saying “lols, don’t fight back :P “. At some point it’s a necessity. You'd be correct in "honest" means "not full of bullshit". Because he's not. He has tricks and everything, but he doesn't net ridiculous damage from a single mistake, his moves are straightforward for the most part and often can be handled one-at-a-time (more pokes, less up-close pressure), little in the way of ridiculous mixups or truly forcing an opponent to block (Zato/Millia). Hard to see != forced to respect, especially in the same way you would for Zato/Millia/Elphelt's (for some characters). Just as every Faust poke is used to counter something, each poke has its own shortcomings that can be countered too. Of course, it's not easy (that's the point), but a mistake with a small punish usually turns into a lack of control for Faust. That's where other characters really do a lot more of what they want, but they still gotta do it well or intelligently. Knockdown, like pretty much all characters in this game, is where Faust's game of control really starts. Okay okay…. Hmmm. Though I don’t think I’ll ever see him as not full of shit. I was okay with him back in the early GG days all the way up to Slash, and then AC seems to be where I think I started hating him more. Before AC, I’m pretty sure his damage output was better back then, but then again, everyone’s was, so I didn’t care. (btw, 2P, 2D doesn't combo, even on CH. Don't fear it super badly from max range, it's a tool to keep opponents in check and to keep them out quickly, not just to combo even if it can from close range. Otherwise it's just a frame trap/a way for Faust to get his control game started as 2D is jump and special cancel-able) Good to know, thanks. Also, without going too much into it as you're not sure of the version; it sounds like you're talking about BlazBlue Continuum Shift where Rachel did jack for damage but still had decent wind gimmicks. It was definitely one of the Chrono Phantasma’s (since balance patches come out now, I kinda refer to them as reiterations or stand alone games despite the fact that they’re not). Ragna takes at least 3 and a ½ (maybe) combos to kill most characters in that game, and despite having a higher damage output than her, she ran train on him with her instant overhead bullshit and her 93 chances at rushdown where no answer he had was safe for dealing with her. It was a massacre worse than the Texas Chainsaw.

Kinda busy today guys, but I'll address stuff eventually.

He wanted it to be a combo ender that knocks opponents down, but he never said what it would do if it hit someone in any other circumstance.

Oh I've seen it. Of course not in person. We did so much dumb shit in the early 2000s I can't remember it all. He lost my money at Evo 2015, and now I'm having him watch 10 Blazblue combo videos as punishment.

Uh, if you haven't taken the time to read the frame data and don't know anything about attack levels (a set of categories for attacks that determine things like hitstun, blockstun, and hitstop; that's been used in pretty much every ArcSys fighter), then yes, I would very much say that you lack an understanding of the mechanics of the game. Knowing how to play and seeing things happen in videos, you may very well learn what works, but without researching anything about attack properties and frames, you won't be able to determine why it works; and balance changes affect what works by directly changing the why. Suggesting changes on attack and character attributes without knowing anything about actual current state and values is akin to rolling dice with balance. Well, it's the first time I've ever heard of a fighting game resorting to a sort of table for all attacks. I guess I don't know shit then. LOL :V Ouch. But fine, I get you, I get you. ****************************************************** Well then, from here on out, shall we speak of low tier characters who need buffs? I'd like to know more about what that guy Naka was talking about. I know they nerfed Ram, and buffed Pot, but apparently they're still ass. Can we point out what problems they have now how they can possibly be addressed?

See this kinda helps. If this is a rule in guilty gear, then okay, I didn't know that. I normally tend to think of this stuff in coding terms, where all values are determined separately (yeah, I fux with mugen - not that this feature is a staple only to mugen, know this).

DaiAndOh Hey man, I was infected with Steve's constant complaining. What can I say? He only ever does it around me for whatever reason, maintaining a quiet more laid back demeanor around everyone else when playing. And no, I don't play in Xanadu tournaments. I have financial instability, so I can only ever afford to play online or on house visits. I also got no ride. Maybe some time in the near future. greatfernmanI just think you were being dumb by suggesting balance without understanding the game. All you guys have proven is that I don't know guilty gear related terms and am probably iffy on some of the terms that I do bring up. That does NOT justify such an incredibly broad statement as my not understanding the game. I watch more matches than I actually play, and hell, I even complain in place of the player who was bullshitted. I'll admit I made a few dumb mistakes jumping into thread creation without testing stuff before making suggestions for buffing Sol. Though we didn't really go through the entire cast yet, and I like buffing everyone up, normally.

It's more that you think that I think I'm high level. I believe I've referred many times to other "better" Sols/players throughout the thread.

mAc Chaos Yes, if someone doesn't know the info they're basing their suggestions on then chances are their suggestions won't make sense. I see them mostly picking at the fact that I don't know the jargon, which isn't a necessity to know what's going on, nor do you need to know frame data to know when something's abuseable when you see it whored out in every match of top players. Nage isn't the only Faust. Instead of taking offense from people pointing out learning those things you should embrace it. I think I'm good on the whole frame data thing. I've played the game for 15 years without knowing it and still manage to be good at it. I've also gotten this far without the terminology too. Especially if you want them to take your attitude seriously. What attitude? I understand how they see me, and they choose to be asses about it. Regardless of whatever I say, I don't have control over them, they are free to scoff at me, and I'm free to dismiss their scoffing. And beating you or you beating them wouldn't prove your suggestion is right anyway. Don't fall for the bait dude. Overwhelmed with replies, I decided to play around too. Speaking of attitude, drop the whole "I'm laughing at you" "No I'm laughing at you" stuff. I don't want to lock the thread, but I will if it continues. That goes for everyone else too. I'm only returning what I'm being given. If I'm going to be punished for constantly telling them that they don't affect me as much as they think they do, then so be it. Should I apologize for having a lack of shame? You have a thread here for potentially constructive discussion about balance, use it for that. I'll delete and/or infract if it's just useless driveby trolling. Yeah, and it'd be nice for people to acknowledge what's being stated about certain subjects without them strawmaning the holy hell out of me. I was not aware that Sol was near top, though I did know he was pretty high in this game. I did hear that Zato, Faust, and Elphelt were top three (which may mean that my knowledge may be dated, the way they're reacting). @Naka I really want to read a topic full of information and analyzing about characters that REALLY need a tweak. We stuck nearly 6 pages adressed the 2 already good balanced characters that won't need any change until the whole game evolve into a different meta than now and try to lecture(somewhat) a guy who insist on demanding overwhelming buff/neff on both char. I repeat myself, I really want to know your thought about Potemkin and Ramlethal. On the last page Flick posted some interesting contents about Potemkin. I'm waiting to see some discussion here since someone finally light thing up on this topic. And this is what I'm talking about. We've already been over why my buffs to Sol are bad, this is no longer an issue. We've already been over the context of what I meant when referring to the entire list of nerfs I would've given to Faust, yet the only two serious nerfs I suggested have yet to be shot down objectively. Now the topic seems to be shifting towards "How big is your wallet that you can suggest anything?", which is kind of a fallacious statement akin to "you can't draw, so you can't critique". What's wrong with discussing why changes are bad? Do I need to be somebody to complain about stuff I don't like in a fighting game? If you're going to bring up a counterpoint, do it, otherwise I will still find the changes viable.

You guys seem to think that because someone complains a lot, doesn't know GG related jargin, doesn't look up frame data and doesn't know what an attack level is, that they're not qualified to suggest anything. Well, here's another person who doesn't know any of that shit. Feel you can beat him? Feel you can beat me?

Over the phone with me while I was composing the list.

Mai-ahIn that retort, we ignore the difference between in game reference and stuff coined by the FGC. So you're saying I have to REFERENCE a keypad, right? So what happens when you use a calculator on your job often that has the numbers reversed? EDIT: Also, I'm going to keep beating the hell out of this until someone says something. Fuck this shit, Steve H gets away with a lot of bullshit in game, I'll be damned if he does it in real life too. STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC. WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS?

Anyway, I'll probably be online sometime soon. Get reckt if you like - you all know where to bring it. EDIT: Also, I'm going to keep beating the hell out of this until someone says something. Fuck this shit, Steve H gets away with a lot of bullshit in game, I'll be damned if he does it in real life too. STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC. WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS?

I also said I don't use terminology that needs a point of reference either. But you conveniently missed that point, didn't you? How am I supposed to know what 4676845k is again?

I'm curious what responses I missed. I've read all of your posts since the one I originally responded to and I don't see you acknowledging the things you say you are. You made claims on the page 4 of the thread about Faust's 'awesome recovery' and 'all the benefits of a character who can reach across the entire screen with very little of the drawbacks' but I didn't see you saying 'oh, I see there are ways around Faust's ranged game' or anything like that, which is why I responded to that point. Someone other than me responded earlier about Faust bullshit and I haven't seen a need to provide input. I believe some of you simply downplayed his statements, and therefore I thought okay, no point going any further with that. Probably faust bias :P The hurtbox thing is what it is. Lots of weird character-specific combos is a guilty gear thing in general and applies to everybody. If hurtboxes (during combos) were more standardized (though character weight and stuff matters too), it might actually help Faust. As a Faust player, I have combos that only work (or are far more consistent on) other Fausts. I looked at the first page of the Pot combo thread, and there are a bunch of combos that only work on Faust and only a handful of others. No character in any of the guilty gears has had a hurtbox like XRD Faust where he can reach lower to attack than he can get punished. You guys keep bringing this shit up about other character's hitboxes, and I refuse to acknowledge the strawman. Where as changing your combo to deal with specific character's weights and etc is one thing, characters missing combos from anti airs because his big bendy ass contracts upward into nothing is another. He's the only character in the game that does that. You call using his drill his 'shorthop' OMFG. Seriously? Seriously? I've refered to his drill as a drillkick, or a divekick. I refered to 'that other thing' - which you should know what I'm talking about as a "faust player" - as a shorthop. Hell, even Chipp can only stop his air momentum and fall back down. Faust legitimately has a shorthop that can be used as an option select theoretically.

greatfernman Firstly: I edited to explain my definition of rushdown. Rushdown legitimately does not keep you locked down. But it is, granted, a definition thing, so I was thinking maybe you think pressure is part of rushdown, so I wanted to know. But sure, if you want to dismiss it go ahead. Okay, you're coming at me with this half baked definition, and you're getting on MY case about how I state or define things? I think it's a fairly simplistic thing, and I guess you may be right, I may be confusing the official terms of pressure and rushdown, but so far as I understand, rushdown are the strings you put together to stay in. Lockdown is an extreme example of rushdown, where the opponent has pretty much been either outread the entire time, or forced into a defensive for a long amount of time due to bullshit. Secondly: if you don't know game specific terminology and design then how do you think you can suggest changes for the actual game??? Do you not understand how ridiculously stupid that makes you sound To a fool of an idiot, I would sound ridiculously stupid - in which case, I have nothing to worry about. There are universal fighting game terms that apply to everything if you didn't notice. Not knowing something doesn't make anyone stupid, and at best makes them sound ignorant. Know the difference. KuuhakuMore like if you're having issues dealing with certain situations, did it ever occur to you that lack of knowledge (IE: What's going on which can be answered by knowing how to read frame data and knowing what things like Attack levels are) might be why? Instead of dismissing it, if you truly don't know it would be to your benefit to learn. I just go into training mode and see when I can attack, and how fast they can block after doing X. I still assert that you're making assumptions by the way I sound talking about this stuff. Again, I complain a lot. I'm not making this about learning terms. That's irrelevant. HollysmokeRushdown = Player X is constantly chasing down Player Y. The strategy here is you essentially want to eliminate space. IE Chipp Lockdown = Player X is preventing Player Y from moving. The strategy here is to prevent Player Y from doing anything. IE Axl If you think these two are the same you should probably step back and reassess your analysis. Term confusion means I should reassess everything I stated? Despite the fact that it still applies? This makes sense to you?

KuuhakuWell that seems to be what you beleive about me based on how you're reading this or if I poorly worded something. I have an easier time dealing with Zato, Millia, and Venom pressure than I do bedman or faust. Perhaps it's best not to make assumptions about my skill based on your understanding of what I'm saying? Or are you the type of person who thinks that one cannot theorize correctly if they don't play as well - kinda like saying I can't judge artwork if I can't draw. Instead of getting defensive, it might be a good idea to actually read people's posts and ask questions if they say things you don't get. It would probably help you more than anything. Getting defensive? Once it's been shown that they're willing to just jump into the thread and state things that have already been addressed or object but don't explain themselves, I think it's fair for me to dismiss them - at this point I've revealed a prime example of how to troll me in this thread, so it's best if I don't bite. I'm considering them as trolls as that point. EDIT: I find it highly telling just how funny Karma is regarding Steve H, as nobody has addressed the changes he proposed for Ky, despite being one of the best Ky's on the east coast. You'd think he was a scrubby too if you heard the way he talks shit about his own character. "WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME" according to him. EDIT2: I appreciate the advice. But don't assume. I probably complain more than I should.

greatfernmanYou should explain your definition of rushdown because we don't seem to agree on it. Deadass, rushdown doesn't keep you stuck No, I'm sick of these halfassed hit and run replies, so it's high time I started resorting to it myself. Also I dont think safer on whiff j.d is that much of a problem, I'm just saying if higher attack level j.d is unwarranted why give him something that gives almost everything higher attack level gives and more? I don't know what the hell a higher attack level is. I only use universal or intuitive fighting game terms, not something that's game specific. If I have to read a definition on it, or use something as a point of reference, then I'm probably not going to do it. Ever notice I never use that stupid number pad notation? Where as more float stun makes new more damaging combos possible, I don't see how recovery, with the same a mount of float stun, will do the same. It'll make things derpier, of course, but not by much. It wouldn't take a lot to make a dust loop combo easier without making it unfair.

greatfernmanRushdown doesn't keep you stuck. :/ Okay. Also j.D having having less recovery is worse (edit: oh worse as in worse a change because it buffs him more, so better depending on your pov) than more untech time. Higher attack level makes it safer on block and more combo potential/easier to combo. Less recovery does all that and makes it safer on whiff. Is that the only issue? That he might be able to be more safe with a faster recovery j.D? It's already not something that's really punishable in the first place, how is this worse? It'll still have the tripguard too, which is one of the worst problems that that move has. Without a clear example of how it affects combo potential either, there seems to be no problem. zissouSeriously, dude, read my responses to other people regarding my nerf list for Faust. The only nerfs I really want him to have is a bigger hurt box on his float stun and something to be done about that shorthop nonsense. All the other stuff has been addressed. And as far as his ranged game, welp.... Count the number of times it goes punished in high level matches and the number of times it's actually been the final hit of the match. Then come back to me with that expected look of amazement.

@Naka "The feeling are mutual and we here, 3 people laugh our ass off with 100% of your posts. So I'm not offended, you too, please don't be." You can keep laughing, I don't give a shit. What I meant to say last night before crashing was that the trend seems to be that every time you seem to speak from your high horse scoffingly, you tend post illegible tripe, or irrelevant stuff. Stay focused for goodness sakes. Though I do find it hilariously ironic that you would tell me not to get offended while constantly bringing up the fact that you're laughing at me I guess it's a good thing that I'm not anybody else, or I would be. @mAceOfHearts Seriously though, as hilarious as this thread is, I don't really see the point of it. What were you trying to accomplish when you made the OP, SBZ? If you were trying to start a discussion about character balancing, this was a terrible way of going about it. Yeah, character balancing was the idea. I may have underestimated the abilities of the design crew at Arc. I should've tested a little more before offering some of these suggestions, but this has been addressed already. The thread's topic has now taken on a slightly different approach, and anyone keeping up with it should be able to see that, else they (or you) are simply drive by shitposting. I mean fuck, I get it now, shit. How long do we want to continue beating the dead horse? You can keep on if you like, but don't expect me to join you in entertaining the subject. I guess I'd rather Sol play akin to how I'd want him to play, as I'm sick of running wild with risky behaviors. I'd rather Sol played safer, with guaranteed combos. If to balance Sol out, I'd have to give him an overall damage reduction, then so be it. Pot, meet Kettle. Before making a statement like this, perhaps you should see if the logic follows. The only thing close to antagonizing that I've done here was say that only scrubs complain about Sol's moves - as if they're absolutely the best or some shit. He's got noticeable gaps in pressure that all good players exploit the living hell out of. My sentences are well, if not decently, structured, since you know, I speak English. I might not be getting my full intent across, but it's still discernible. @zissou Closing note- you specifically reference Faust being able to “rank so high in tiers” when he’s considered to be the same tier as Sol by many strong players. Why do you accept the tier list as proof of Faust’s strength yet completely ignore it when asking for Sol buffs? I think I can dismiss the majority of your posts not only because the things you've mentioned have already been addressed, but because you clearly aren't keeping up with the thread if you think I'm still on the Sol stuff. 90% of that stuff has been proven to be too much for him to have, and that I'm fine with, if someone has a good argument. The fact that he has 5 .... 6 now.... anti airs does NOT mean he has to use them ALL in specific situations, but that he has more than one option to use in specific cases. Mostly, it seems that a few of the other anti airs can be used in place of forward punch depending on HOW he wants to react to that situation, where as standing kick seems to be the only thing with a specific use..... maybe forward hardslash too, since his head now count's as a friggin hitbox for some reason. @CWheezy While most of his changed were wrong, the sol jump D change is on the right track. Instead of untech time, I think you just want to change the recovery of it by a few frames less. You have to dustloop to play sol, it makes no sense as to why that combo is so hard You know, you're probably right. I might have suggested a change on the wrong parameters of that move. @greatfernman >keeping someone stuck in a single spot is rushdown >let's not confuse rushdown for lockdown Read as "I want to hold all tones/lines of the conversation in the same context". Rushdown and lockdown both keep you stuck but there's an OBVIOUS difference. Perhaps I should start doing the same thing as you guys who are ridiculing me - just reply to point out something wrong but not explain a damned thing. So I won't explain the difference. You'll still be laughing, but it'll be out of ignorance... which in turn, would cause me to be the one entertained. *shrug*

You were being so antagonizing that 2/3rds of what you said made absolutely no sense. We addressed all the Sol "buffs" I proposed. 90% of them were shot down objectively. I'm okay with that. I'm talking Faust in general if you forgot, not in terms of how Sol fights him. Really, don't listen to Blade. I might not play other characters, but I do recognize what's going on when I see the majority of the cast getting reckt by Faust. To sum up my reply to you in one word..... What?

@ COFEELING I'm really amused by a Sol player complaining about Faust's defense. You say Faust has that ability. Let's see what he can do: Please bring up something worth my while to address. "5P becomes active on the 6th frame, slow jump startup. The rest are basic universal mechanics like pushblock and dead angle that anyone can do. Now, Sol? 5K is active on the 3rd frame, full extension on the 5th, Sol has a DP. Both 5P and 2P are 4f startup." What's your point? Sol's normals also have pretty poor hurtboxes and leave him open. The first hit of his standing k, the part which has the 3 frame startup, has piss poor range, and the second hit I'm not even sure what the frame on that is. The problem isn't how fast he can get them out, but more of other reasons as explained above. "Someone also has not looked at the frame data at all. You say Faust's recovery is short on his normals thanks to item toss. Newsflash: The only moves whose recovery canceling into item toss shortens are 2H (not appreciably, by 2f or so) and 6H, where canceling actually cuts it in half, but we're talking about 6H here. You can see and react to the startup because it's so slow and 6H xx item is still -13 or something - you have ample time to defend whatever shenanigans Faust decides to try next." You're correct. I haven't seen the frame data. But I've addressed this in a previous post, and hell no, I don't WANT to block any more shit from Faust. I want to get to the point where I actually get back to attacking too. Everyone does. I'm not asking for it to be dumb simple, but I damn sure don't expect to have to risk receiving even 30% damage just to get put back into the situation again Nage uses 2S xx item often. Safe? Fuck no. 2S alone is -7 on block and canceling into item makes it -18. I don't know about that. I haven't seem him do it much in the matches I've seen him play. That is what Naka meant when he says that stuff works because they're Nage and Kiisha. The opponent has no objective reason to respect any of that, they do it because they're scared or just can't react to it. Faust's pressure works because of the player, it's not objectively hard to challenge, let alone defend. You want to see pressure that's just objectively hard to get out of, see Sol, Elphelt and Zato. You want okizeme that's objectively hard to get out of, see Zato, Elphelt, Millia. And I'm telling you that that argument is horrible garbage, as it's fallacious. It has absolutely nothing to do with Faust the character, and assumes that everyone that plays those players are aware they're playing those players and are scared of them, for whatever reason. Faust's pressure works because it's something the character himself can get away with with little risk of taking an ass whooping. I see people jumping out of Sol pressure all the time, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Too many gaps in his offense for you to claim there's nothing you can do about it. Zato and Elphelt, I can agree with you on. This message took about 10 minutes to type. Considerable difference. Would've taken less if my computer wasn't so slow at dealing with this sites interface....

You're either forgetting how much shenanegans he gets off of shorthops, air drills and low altitude GMW, or you're thinking about the way YOU play him. I don't want to sit there blocking all day, nor do I think blitzing is all that safe an option - you see, gaps in pressure aren't necessarily a bad thing, they're definitely not a concern when your character leaves very little room between gaps to attack them effectively. Damn near every Faust player I've ever seen keeps their opponent cornered far longer than any expert Sol player - and keeping someone stuck in a single spot for a quite a while is something I consider rushdown. Let us not confuse rushdown for lockdown, something Zato is known for. Also, don't forget that he's got a command grab, one that I don't want to see the results of with a high or maxed out risc meter. And why can't I? The fact is, that he gets anywhere from 8 - 15 item tosses per round if he's playing effectively, and throwing out the items when properly spaced or using enough variations in his attacks to deter punish attempts sees that he's very safe and involves little risk when on the offensive. While I agree with you that certain items can totally screw him up as much as they do his opponents, he's got more useful items than he does trashy, counterproductive ones. Most..... scratch that, all of the time when he uses GMW, it's at a low altitude so that he DOES land to cancel out his vulnerability. Are you saying that you can air throw it, however? Pretty sure that doesn't matter though, it's usually canceled from another attack. His pressure is crazy. I don't know what you're talking about. Never seen anyone get full punishes off of him doing anything that they didn't anticipate before hand. From full screen, maybe a forward punch puts him in his place. But in your face? Ain't a safe option to get rid of his ass. Which he'll get from several of his ridiculously usefull item tosses. It doesn't matter which, so long as they get him a knockdown or have them back themselves into a corner because he's poking them and anti airing them every time they attempt to jump in. And as of a few hours ago, I found out that he can actually use forward hardslash for a 6th anti air (video of Nage vs Kazunoko). WOW. That is NOT an instance of a hurtbox issue. That's a built in drawback to using thrust as a move. Name some combos that he has that are prone to missing against a character simply because his hitbox doesn't touch their hurtbox despite the fact that his image is clearly touching the opponent, and we'll talk. I still see expert players going for juggles and missing despite the fact that they know the matchup. Well of course I meant the item tosses. He gets them out as often as he's in neutral, so the moment they expire, he just throws out another one. - Dust is an anti air because it's got invulnerability and can be used to turn the opponent's attack into a free combo for him instead. - I just saw Nage interrupt Sol's dive kick with motherfucking forward hardslash dude. All I could do was shake my head. - All anti airs have a semblance of risk to them. Just because crawl has a risk to it doesn't mean you can't use it to make their anti airs whiff. Overall though, the fact that he has plenty to work with is NOT anything short of being overkill. Would I be right in assuming that "honest" means that he's not full of bullshit? I object to such claims. He's the only character in the game that can divekick from any height once he leaves the ground. Not only that, he can cancel the startup of that move into a block to make a shorthop safejump, falling back toward the ground instantaneously. That makes a high low mixup hard to see, not to mention helps his pressure game tremendously. His useful items make it so that he always gets a chance for a knockdown, while simultaneously (when spaced correctly and varied well enough), makes him safe to all manner of punishment. He has a GET OVER HERE in friggin Guilty Gear dude. And a command throw. The punishments he eats don't quite lead to the deserved damage, and he has a deceptive hitbox. Honest my ass :P If anything, people don't realize what exactly is going on and therefore don't know they're being gypped. There's a reason why I don't throw projectiles to get rid of minifaust, and it's the same exact reason top players don't either - they don't want to give faust a free knockdown. I don't want to jump over it either, giving him yet another chance to get a free knockdown. The only thing really is to sit back and hope he does something stupid so that I can anticipate and either IAD over there, or blitz him, etc, neither options are all that safe, meanwhile minifaust is still a trottin'. If it died half screen, boo hoo, he can just go and throw another stupid useful item. So we agree on this I was simply amused at what you called stun dipper. I don't think I have a comment on that particular portion though, that I haven't already stated above. Guilty Gear, and most other Arc systems games have always valued high pressure characters with more chances to attack over those with ridiculous damage, unless that character was getting it for free. Taking something out of blazblue for a moment (don't know which one, don't bother asking me), it's the reason why Rachel eats Ragna up for free. She does piddly shit for damage, but who cares, she gets a hell of a lot more opportunities to attack than he does. Who cares if you can do 80% damage in one combo if you can never get the chance to pull it off? The fact that Faust can be all over you within a moment's notice because of a stupid gimmick which almost always leads to a knockdown (lol at crawl > cr. punch > cr. D) is more evidence of why he's top. As of this moment, it took roughly 45 minutes to type this reply to you, because addressing your replies using the quote system is that time consuming. My typing speed is 55 wpm, so yeah, this is quite aggravating.

Sorry for taking so long to respond people. I really don't like the quote system here. I'll get around to it shortly.

Oh lord, I kinda knew what to expect when I saw the Jin avatar..... D: Yeah dude, you kinda just ruined any point you could've had by saying that. Like they bring out magical properties that aren't present during other's playing that character or something. The fact is it's there. If they can do it, then theoretically anyone can. It's an option. A tool for use. One that's available for everyone who plays Faust. While they are committed to their character, I can imagine just how fast they'd pick up another main if Faust actually sucked. I'm pretty sure half is personal preference, the other half is that the character actually is that damn good. Not going to really address much else for right now, (I skimmed and couldn't understand some of what I was reading anyway), I was talking generally about Faust and not from specifically Sol's point of view.