Kinkuli

Well yeah if they don't have meter. But if they have meter then they could just reversal blitz. The setup there is fine and all but i am 99% sure Hase could have thrown nage out of 236HS. Nage was getting away with A LOT of 236HS anyway when one can just throw em once you get the hang of things (which can be hard no doubt). Hase probably just doesn't have that much Leo exp yet so he was probably not sure what he could punish and how. But i mean by all means you can use these setups if your opponent doesn't know how to escape them. Also yeah sometimes 5K into 5S gets you far 5S but you can always delay using 5S a bit so you travel further during the hop animation of 5K. I believe zidane mentioned this in his Leo primer. 6K as an ender is OK at best really. Even though it's +4 on block, it leaves you so far that it is hard to do anything smart afterwards, especially if they decide to FD you. But generally just use whatever you feel most comfortable with. I don't personally have problems hitconfirming and using the 5S f5S 2S route.

There are few potential problems from what i've tested with the rekka ender into 46HS YRC oki. For one to get into a situation where you actually can mix someone up effectively means you have to use a move which you can link/gatling easily into 5D or 2K/2S. From what i tried out (i haven't tried out 6HS yet, will do that later) to get into this position you have to be near enough to the opponent and use something like 5K/6HS etc. but it leaves you open for just them throwing you out of the mixup. The same holds true for 46HS YRC 236HS which you can be thrown out of. But like said i haven't tried out using 6HS and it could be good choice and might force opponent to respect you. Another problem it could have is that you are spending precious meter to gain access to a potentially subpar mixup. The meter you spend could have been saved to use 46HS YRC in neutral to help you get in, 46S YRC for poking and making it safe, or stance super which you can use to deal massive dmg with correct confirms. Also when you consider the possibility of opponent using an blitz shield just to call out your meaty which means you have to RPS twice in the process. First RPS between reversal blitz/DP and then RPS with high/low which is not that good imo. All in all i wanna really like the setup as i also spend a lot of time trying things out with it, but if they can just throw/blitz you out of it, then i would just go for 236HS since if you need to play RPS, i'd play that RPS game in the situation that is most advantageous for leo. PS. Generally on crouchers you probably want to use 5K c.5S f.5S 2S 5HS into rekka. i'm fairly sure it does same or even more dmg than doing the 6K 5P link.

yup yup. I don't really see why one would NERF 6P. It already loses to deep jump-ins badly. On S DP change being reverted is ok i guess? If the move was stupid then yeah sure, but it has very little uses so they should do something to it TBH. I am most sad about S boom change. I hope the new improved range is almost fullscreen or in that ballpark. Infinite range would have made it a really good neutral tool imo and leo desperately needs one imo. Eager to see the new throw range too. Maybe it will make him more scary close up instead of just using FD and be done with him. BT.D should probably have stayed buffed. If it was too good then i suppose they could have made it 75 dmg or something? I feel the risk/reward on using the BT.D just isn't there since people can deal with stance mixup in variety of ways but leo has to make hard reads to deal with them. But yeah stealth buffs/nerfs could be inbound. Will have to sit tight and see what goes down. I am still hopeful that they'll make leo a good contender. I like really like his visual design and how he plays but he has glaring weaknesses for a close range char.

Stance mixup is decent tbh. The main "problem" it has is that it's RPS. You can't really FORCE your opponent to respect it without conditioning them. Other than that, i hope they keep the changes they made or at least not revert all of them. I think the S boom changes are fair tbh. Like Maho said it has a lot of recovery for a charge move so it being better would make sense. Can't comment on S DP but maybe it works out great as an AA and maybe as a way to disrespect pressure with holes. Might also lead to dmg and oki on CH? Who knows. Vids of loke would be awesome but probably not happening. Need to wait for official release ;_;.

Also like kiba said opponent can just throw you out of the [4]6HS YRC 236HS whiff. The setup is by no means solid. If you get away with it sure abuse it.

Yeah makes sense. The latter part in the description of Stance S probably just means using stance S to continue after Stance K and Stance HS but for whatever reason they typoed it with Stance S.

Throw invuls...? I...i think im gonna cry. This made me so happy. EDIT: Actually really glad that they added throw invuls to BT K, now they have to respect your stance mixup more. Was worried that throw mash would have been really good against it but apparently they did actually think of that. Also loving the plus frames, helps him keep up offense better. 6HS being plus on block is probably really good also. You can probably space it to avoid throws and still meaty with it for more plus frames into stance oki. jD being plus is interesting, well spaced jD can be a really good way in it seems. 5k low invuls might be pretty interesting too. definately will have its uses in certain matchups. I also looked around a bit at wiki and saw that you can link BT S from BT H, it was demonstrated also in the video, i think the text said that BT H to BT S is 2f link on standing and 3f link on crouching. Not too bad. Not sure but Stance S also has a weird describtion, i think it reads that Stance S links to Stance S, but guy with better japanese than i said that it reads that STance S gatlings to Stance S, could be reaaaaally interesting if that's the case. VERY interested to try this guy out. More i learn about him, more he feels like a char i would definately love to play.

Very eager to bait out reversal throw attempts with meaty DP... In other news, few more days! Soon i can finally test out few ideas i have for this bad boy. Will stream day1 for sure!

He probably needs to mixup counter/backdash/button from the restand. Or it might have weird timing to start offense. after 236HS it's also probably something like counter to catch reversals, 5K to go low and maybe beat mashing and 6HS for overhead (it looked like an overhead from that mission mode webm). Eager to try him out. 18th can come fast enough :3.

You can see the damage difference easily if you test it with jD j214S RC to dash 214S. If you hit with the head of pole, less dmg, with the middleish part -> more dmg.

Yeah, should have specified i meant on air hit.

His 214S also seems to have some kind of clean hitish property. If you hit with the head of the pole the dmg is a bit lower and the bounce is bigger compared to hitting with the middleish part of the pole.

He reminds me of Faust and maybe AC slayer a bit. Feels easy at the start but remains to be seen once people get better at the game. Also 214S seems to have clean hit property i think. I get 2 results depending on how 214S hits on the jD j236S RC combo. If you hit with tip it's deals less dmg but if you hit with the middle of the pole it deals more dmg.

On top of my head the dmg would vary with 5-10 points. After playing a may a bit i started to do the 2HS(1) route since it forces standing so 5HS(1) and 6HS will hit then (6HS doesnt hit crouching may ;_; )

few combooos. Midscreen or corner jD > j236S RC dash 214S > charged 236HS > 214K > jK dash 5HS(1) > 6HS > 236HS > 214K. 213Dmg on Sol. You can tune the ender however you like depending on food gauge. Midscreen and from corner (not hitting corner) far 5S > 2S > 236HS RC 66 2HS(1) > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 623S (crit) > 214S > 214K > j6HS > 5S > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 236HS (1) > 214K. 208 DMG on sol and you end up pretty close. You can also end with 236HS(2) 214K for more dmg and corner carry. Midscreen to corner far 5S > 2S > 236HS RC 66 2HS(1) > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 623S (crit) > 214S > charged 236HS > 214K > jK dash 5HS (1) > 6HS > 236HS(1hit/2hit) 214K. 217 dmg on sol with 2 hit 236HS. 2HS punish combo midscreen/corner 2HS(2) > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 623S > 214S > charged 236HS > 214K > jK > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 236HS > 214K/R.T.L . With RTL this does 289 dmg on Sol. Makes em think more about using that VV.

Made a jD j236HS RC combo inspired by the JP Sin. jHS RC route felt unstable, really specific range etc. Probably affected greatly by weight and hitboxes. Good thing to keep in mind tho. Combo in the combo thread soon btw.

For the most part my pressure has been mixture of using far 5S, 2S and 236HS for poking. From there go into elk hunt to get in since it's plus on block. Then using 5K,2P,2K if close enough and going to 5S, 2S 236HS/236K to end or continue pressure if i have enough resources. For the most part i feel that Sin's gatling routes, outside of P,K and S normals are pretty bad. 6HS is plus on block but feels really hard to capitalize on that since you can gatling to it from imo awkward places. But maybe like yukikaze said you could potentially do 236K on block and then mixup between canceling into 236H or going for 6H. You could also end your string to to 5S or 2S and go for 5S again for example. His sweep also feels neutral or -1 on block so you could possibly either go for 5S if you are farther or 2P/5K close by or just special cancel into 236K/236HS and go from there. His most effective range feels to be in far 5S and 2S range since you can go for 236K or just keep poking to crank that RISC bar up. Also at that range you can 6P people's approaches somewhat easy for a real man damage. Makes them think about approaching you carelessly.

2 Hits might depend on spacing. Can't say on top of my head. I've been labbing for around 11hours or so, so my brains are not working fully atm ;_;. I'll check it out again tomorrow after i get back to training mode at some point. I just grabbed the avatar from internet D:. It's "mafia" Ukanlos.

If you are near corner or in corner you can do 5K > 5S > 2S > 236K > 623S (crit) > 214S > charged 236HS > 214K > jK > 5HS > 6HS > 236HS > 214HS or you can just end with jK 5HS(2) 214HS if you don't have enough food. For the most part if you can get 623S crit then the best idea probably is to combo into 214S and go from there depending on where you are. Also few cool RC combos from far 5S far 5S > 2S > 236HS RC 66 2HS(1) > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 623S (crit) > 214S > charged 236HS from here if you are near corner you go for the 214K jK route if not then you can just end after 236HS with 214K. Sin feels like he excels in neutral, poking and being a somewhat of a bully. 236K is plus on block so you can get in somewhat easily from neutral and start poking with stuff and confirming into 236HS 214HS whenever you get a change. Then with meter just RC 236HS for big dmg and corner carry. His 6P is also decent AA and on hit lead to a pretty damn good damage on most character. Example 6P c5S 5HS(1) 6HS jS jS j6HS j214S j236HS does 189 dmg on Sol. with RTL ender it pumps the damage to 225 Dmg. This is just preliminary feels and will most likely evolve once people figure out more about Sin.

It worked on I-no and with dash momentum. Hence i said it's a bit worrying to get the DP to crit since it's REALLY spacing specific so i would personally not do it.

I'm fairly sure you can do 2K>2H(1)>5H(1)>6H>623S(crit)>214S>charged 236HS>214HS midscreen in corner just continue wiith 214K jK 5H(1) 6H 236HS 214HS Only thing that's a bit worrying is getting crit DP. Still trying to find out where you can get it since it goes straight into 214S charged 236H for massive damage.

Anyone interested in making evernote or google docs document for this guy? I'm gonna be labbing him up so sharing info would be cool. Also might be streaming lab/launch party with this guy as soon as the game is available.

Yeah TCL did get nerfed midscreen no doubt. However it got a really big buff in corner and i feel i has not been explored enough yet. Also i saw 3D TCL 22C work from about starter position to corner. If i was not going mad at that point then azrael still might have combos from TCL even without ending straight away in corner. Also i doubt SKD is lying. I did see bang whiff 2A on oki too but it might have been done early so scud didn't punish. It's hard to gauge these things from just videos =/.

From what i've seen Azrael still should be A tier material. Perhaps not Upper A tier but lower A tier at least. It is true that he received nerf to midscreen, namely sentinel dump and TCL nerf but really you can still just go back doing the good ol' 5B 2C 6D/3D routes which people for whatever reason seem to have forgotten and just autopilot stuff to TCL. jD nerf is kinda sucky too but since you can combo 5BB to 2D now, i feel that the value of j2D has gone up greatly (and of 2C 3D is still an option) and is not really that bad alternative. Losing growler as a reversal sucks(though i have seen Eesuke, the kamina azrael from acho, do it on wakeup sometimes and for whatever reason it has worked. Scud seems ok as reversal, not sure why SKD said it loses to 2A meaty straight away since i have seen at least 2 times that that is not to case. Makoto whiffed 2A on oki -> Scud hit. Litchi did 2a on oki -> scud hit. Now sure there's an option that opponent just stopped blocking but i would say that the possibility of that is low. We just need to test it out after we get our hands on it to be sure. All in all, people just need to adapt, find the new stuff for him and he's gonna be fine. The tier lists are also quite early and will naturally develop so we will still have to see. I might also remind you that dogura did say "RIP" Jin earlier but Jin is fleshing out to be a really solid and good character once again. Top players are still just humans so knee-jerk reactions can happen.

LOL what??? I knew i was not going mad when i saw that blue azrael doing 2D 2C. Gonna abuse the shit out of that. EDIT: I am pretty sure DW valiant combos are possible. If you can dash cancel growler, i don't see why you couldn't dash cancel hornet during valiant charger. Remains to be seen. If this was the case the combo vid probably would have had some DW combos but you never know.