Magaki

Yeah, you're right here. The timing seems to be REALLY strict though. @Dreize: I think Kiba simply meant that he knew him a while ago but Tonberry simply never posted here. Tried what Sine said. It seems that you can do 2 mondlicht indeed in a combo but you can only do IAD>jD>jAA afterwards. I can't manage to land a h5B after that though. Couldn't manage to do jBAB however whether it was in human or wolf mode.

Yeah, that's why the fact that 6B>3C don't gatling anymore is quite annoying. It was useful because if the opponent was preparing a DP, you could hit them with 3C because they aren't blocking low anymore thanks to the 623 input. What I do however now is 6B>2A>2B. Same result with 6B>3C. If you get hit before the 6B, did you try some blockstrings like 2B>3C or 2C>3C ? 3C is quite useful now with the wolf cancel and if the opponent is far/using barrier block, you can do 3C>1D>w5C and be in the perfect range for w5C in order to avoid most DPs. Edit: Good luck Stellar ! I found some nice things against Kokonoe but not enough to make a proper matchup guide. If you intend to write one, I'll just fill it with what I already know.

Now that's weird. I tested everything with 1DCA. I agree with removing 3C>brjA though because sometimes it seemed to win with Hazama's 5A and sometimes it traded so I thought that it had something like a 5 frame gap. However, I never got mashed out of 6B>brjA both in training and offline. I will test it myself once more later.

Nice ! And the beginner combos can all be expanded afterwards for more advanced versions so it's a nice choice IMO. Here's also a character specific for wjC Basically, you can't do it raw on those characters. You have to put them in blockstun first. I don't know however if it should be in the combo thread or the guide. Here's the character specific list for 6C>3C>(236B) ender where 236B whiffs for people who were curious. Whiffs on: Azrael, Amane, Noel, Kagura and Tager (This one is weird. Looks like you don't touch Tager with 3C if you delay it as usual so you have to delay it further which means he's lower than other characters when 3C connects and explains why 236B whiffs.)

Great idea. I'll do it once I'll find more datas.

3C is the most optimal choice yeah because it gives you enough time to get in w5C range and avoid any kind of wake-up DP except Ragna's and Litchi's. Comparatively, falling jC enders were really easy to do in Extend but in CP, the oki it gives isn't really that great so I always avoid it and a lot of japanese players seems to think the same. That's why it's not surprising that delayed tech became an easier way to mess with Valk's oki and that's why I made sure to have at least one meaty for any enders that can punish rolls or late techs in the list I made. Having one more way to deal with that is welcome. ____________________________________________________________ Only found one thing interesting so far: After a 6C>3C ender, you can delay a bit and do 236B>4DC>w5C. If 236B whiffs, you can do 4D>wolf brake and be in perfect range to hit with the tippity tip of w5C. While this is by no means a mash safe meaty, it's a really interesting option against DP but it uses a fifth (quarter ?) of the wolf gauge which shouldn't be a problem because of how much wolf gauge the 6C>3C ender gives back. I honestly don't know if it's worth putting amongst the anti-DP setups or not though.

236B is character specific yeah. However, you have to hit most of the time the opponent with the tip of 3C's vertical hitbox for 100 more damage and you have less frames to oki than if you just did 3C if you succeed. Those are the reasons why I didn't bother doing it nor making a character specific list. However, after watching some videos of Uma no Hone lately, it seems that 236B's goal isn't to get more damage but to be used against people who abuse delayed wake-up (To be more specific, he uses 236B>236B and then 5C.). I'll do more tests later and make a proper list.

Your idea caught my interest and while I'm still training in order to get those 14 loops down, I did run some test. 2C>6B>OD>2C>236B>236B>1D4C>w5C does 3100 damage by itself for 22 meter gain. I'm not that knowledgeable about OD combos but just the way it starts looks like it's gonna hurt a lot. I'll probably go back to that later once I'm certain I mastered the wolf loop. I'm still heavily suggesting anyone knowledgeable about OD to give it a try considering that 2C>6B is really easy to hitconfirm and makes it quite practical.

Come to think of it, it's true that trying to generalize it will only make it clear for a selected amount of people. Advanced players will read the explanation either way in order to be certain they fully understand it so Dreize's notation is the one having the most advantage for anyone reading his thread.

That's what I first thought too but it only applies to people who never saw the wolf loop before. Never saw as in it's the first time they hear about it. However, most people tend to first watch combo movies then read guides once they want to improve their game and Titanium Beast's notation are suitable for that because it's meant for people who already know about it. I honestly think however that whatever the notation, an explanation must follow for anyone attempting to do it for the first time as it still confuses a lot of people.

It's something that was discussed and shared in the gameplay section indeed. The notation you gave is much clearer though. I don't know if you're already aware of it but keep in mind that the wolf loop in overdrive doesn't have the same timing as without it. You have to pretty much train separately to get the proper muscle memory. It was a detail that I wasn't aware of when I first trained with it.

^THIS Keep also in mind that a lot of people say that Valkenhayn is braindead/retarded. Most of the time, those biased opinions come from people who never played him nor even tried to learn how to deal with his pressure. If you're asking us, I'm certain that it's because you definetely think that he's good but not godtier and that's pretty much the truth in my opinion.

Same here. I have huge troubles doing w5C>6D>wjA>5D>5B online when I do it mindlessly offline. I end up using instead stuff like 6D>wjA>wjC combos who are easier to use with the lag even if they use more wolf gauge. The lag improved tremendously thanks to the new update however and I have yet to decide if I should keep playing this way online or simply try to land the usual combos. I only use as a crossover in pressure w5B>IAD>2D/1D>wjA. It's really fast, allow you to decide if you want to cross-up/fakecross-up and allowed me to avoid a lot of DPs that were mashed. Only real downside IMO is the fact that you use some wolf gauge. I'll still give it a try however next time I play with some friends.

That thing made me rage so much. Still feels like he got really screwed with that change though. Everytime I see a Jin use it, it whiffs because of how slow it is.

Unconventional reset options ? Could you please tell us what those are or do you have a link listing them ? Also, I doubt you can microdash barrier because Valkenhayn can't microdash at all. And his forward dash is way too slow anyway to really be useful for defense. Edit: Seems that Kiba was much faster than me haha.

Actually, I can pull it off now thanks to your advice about inputting the 3D right when the second 236B hits. Before, I simply wolf canceled right after inputting the second 236B which seems to be the reason why I couldn't get the timing down. Thanks man !

Jin's mixup is quite weak. His only overhead options are 6A, j214D and jump-ins. He needs a RC to combo with 6A and can only gatling into it with 5A, 2A and 5B which can both be stopped with 5A. j214D and the jump-ins will mostly likely start with a 5C which is jump cancelable but both options gets beaten by a 5A. His 2D is +3 but the vacuum effect isn't that great. You can backdash right after he does that to avoid a 2A/2B or anything he does after that to reset pressure. He also needs to push you quite a lot to reset pressure which is not that easy unless you're barrier blocking. Just block normally and wait for him to reset pressure to escape. You can also IB his 5C/2C and chicken block to avoid any reset option he got afterwards. Another new option quite useful he got in CP is 5B(delay)>green throw. Which can be avoided if you option select 4ABC after a 5B.

Could you please be more specific ? Explain the kind of strategy you use. What do you use to get in ? What do you watch out for ? Which normal give you troubles ? The only thing I can say to help you here is that his big normals can all be easily punished with a 4D. Same for his DP who can be defeated easily with w5C. I doubt those advices really help you that much hence why we need more datas. Jin isn't threatening at all for valk. Heck, the previous j236D he had was the only thing annoying about him but he lost it in CP.

It MIGHT be possible that there is a combo route that the developpers are aware of but we don't know it yet. To be honest, it's really weird that they would make a challenge like that without even taking a look at the character they are giving it to. I wonder if there are other characters in the same situation.

We don't know if there is any other way. That's why we were all surprised when we saw how to do it. I doubt there is any other way for Valk to do that much damage.

Welcome in the forum. I hope you will enjoy your stay. I totally agree with Kaiser here. There are however a few other points I would like to clarify. ___________________Neutral game____________________ -You understood that Noel's footsies were average at best and used 5C. It's pretty good for that but the problem is the fact that it's slow and gets beaten by a lot of things. Noel could have easily went through it with jump>barrier block or 3C like Kaiser pointed out. 5B is a much better choice here because it still outranges her and got a pretty good speed. Whether she blocks it or not, you got much better and safer options after 5B than with 5C. -5C is wolf cancelable. Keep it in mind because it allows you to make it pretty much safe or decide to pressure afterwards if the opponent isn't expecting it. You can also do 5C>brJA to pretty much get an instant overhead if the opponent block the 5C. Keep in mind however that it loses against 5A mash. -Considering that CP only got released recently, we are all still having troubles moving around as much as before in wolf mode. Still, you're doing well by using it for pressure but it's quite useful for neutral too. Most of the time, you were running around in wolf. I guess you were checking if your opponent will take the bait and get in ? However it's Noel we are talking about here. She got no reliable way to safely get in on him. However, she still got Optic Barrel. Your opponent barely used them but that's pretty much the reason why running around on the ground isn't such a great idea against her. If she touches with it, she got enough time to run and get in while you're still waking up. I would suggest you to rather stay in the air. Noel got no way to catch you in mid or long range if you stick there and you still got a lot of options left to get in based on the wolf gauge left. -You should use (not abuse mind you) the wolf canons a bit more in neutral. That's a pretty good way to get in by using a minimum amount of meter. The Noel player also jumped a lot using jC. The reason is that you can't beat her with w5B if she does that which was quite clever. However, you can easily deal with it with a wolf canon or IAD>wjA. Both works really well. _______________________Defense game________________________ -Whether it is 6A or Sturm wolf, none will protect you on the first frame. It means that if the opponent does a proper meaty, you will give them a free combo. With 6A, you might even end up getting fatal countered and in this case you will probably lose so much health you will lose the round. If you consider that you really need to get your opponent off your back as fast as possible, use a counter assault. True, we don't get as much heat gain as before but the guard primer system is gone meaning we don't have to worry about abusing CAs anymore. -I saw sometimes that while waking up you did 5C, 2C or even 6C. Those are obviously unsafe choices but I will take a wild guess and say that you're still used to Extend. Which is to mash a button to tech as fast as possible. It's not necessary anymore. Holding a button is the only thing you need to tech. Of course, if it's not the case, I would advice you to simply block on wake-up. If you really consider that your opponent won't meaty and don't want to respect your pressure, use a 2A but that's it. -I also noticed that you were sometimes guarding high for no reason. Noel's overheads are really slow and easy to react to it that's why her mixup is nothing special. Just block low and wait for them. _______________________Offense game_____________________ -Some of the choices you pick in offense are really unsafe. I'm certain that you already know that anyway but I would suggest you to learn the blockstrings Kiba wrote here. -j236236C's minimum damage is 720. That's a waste of meter unless you want to end a round. Save it for a future CA if the opponent manage to pressure you. -If you check again your matches, you will notice that you lost the momentum quite a lot after your combos. That's because the meatys you use are either unsafe or have a huge gap between when you hit the opponent and when he wakes up. Without taking any risk, the opponent could everytime jump and chicken block allowing him to easily escape the corner. You got here everything you need whether it concerns dealing with reversals, getting max damage or mixing up right away. Options like jump>jD>7DD>jC in the corner can be useful to avoid reversals but you got better choices. The Noel player had enough time to wake-up and anti-air you everytime you did that. ________________________________________________________________ I know it's a lot but I'm certain you will never have any troubles against Noel if you train a bit while keeping this in mind.

Well I feel like being an outsider here because it's the other way around for me. I don't really have any particular troubles with the wolf loop at all. I do it with 3D4C to be more specific. However, I have HUGE troubles doing it with 2D4C or 1D4C. Which probably explains why I have so much troubles with 236B>brJA. I just can't manage to find the right timing to pull it off. You got any tips or visual cue Kaiser ? As for the wolf loop, I found out that it's easier for me to simply hold 4C rather than tap it. I will take a wild guess and say that you basically have to press the 4C after the frame when you do brJA. See when you do 4D and press 4C late ? Valk will stop shortly after the dash and keep a bit of momentum. That's exactly the same thing with the wolf loop. I first checked when you could brJA with 3D after a w5C and made sure that I was pressing 4C after the brJA but before he lands. Might sound a bit confusing but I hope that it helps.

I tested with all the characters' DPs. They can all be executed at the distance you usually take in the corner to make the opponent unable to roll away. As a visual cue, it's when Valkenhayn's ribbon touch the feet of the opponent. That's what we will call "w5C range". It can be done either midscreen or in the corner. Easiest to do in a meaty situation but I found some setups that will be written below. Works on: Rachel: Her 2C. Jin: Jin's 623C wil completely whiff and you can punish it with 5D>h6B. 623D's first hit roughly got the same horizontal hitbox as 623C but the second hit will get you considering you're still in wolf mode. You can do w5C(whiff)>w5A which will hit Jin before the second hit but the timing and spacing is really strict. Best option is w5C(whiff)>7D. Timing is strict but less risky than the previous one and more rewarding. Mu: Her 623C. Platinum: Her [2]8C can be avoided but you can't punish it. Well, you can with w5C>7D>4C>6D>2D>wjA. Yeah, considering all the wolf gauge you will burn, it's not worth it. Azrael: His Growler 214B. (　｢・ω・）｢ Bullet: Her 623B Tager: All his command grab. GETB and MTW still works. Hakumen: His 2D if you do w5C>4D/7D. You will get caught otherwise. Kagura: His [2]8C Makoto: Her 623C Relius: His 236A. w5C will whiff. You can do w5C(whiff)>w5A CH and follow with a combo. Hard to deal with: Those reversals requires you to be at max range in order to deal with them. It is only possible in the corner to pull it off with a tk214B>6C ender with an N starter (don't use 3C) or with the j8BBC ender (more details in the w5C guide). Tsubaki: Her 623C can be avoided if you hit with the tippity tip of w5C. Ragna: (Found by Kiba) It is possible to avoid Ragna's 623C at max range with Valk's w5C. Doesn't work on [*]Litchi I found a setup if you feel the need to do it in a blockstring against opponents who tends to mash DPs a lot during your pressure. Make sure that he/she respect at least a little bit your pressure and won't chicken block because you will give them a free ticket to escape otherwise. Against normal block: 6D>wjA>w5A>w5B>1D>w5C Puts you in w5C range. Against barrier block: 6D>wjA>w5B>1D>w5C Puts you in a range where you can hit with the tippity tip of w5C.

NICE ! I just tested against jin's 623D. Seems that you can do w5C as a meaty (you have to adjust it right.) and if it whiffs because of his invul, you can do w5A to get a counter hit before you get hit by the second attack of 623D. The distance required is the same as the one you use to make the opponent unable to roll away. I'll definetely test it against other characters later.

Yeah wjA>land>5DB works fine too. Anyway, just keep training and don't give up. To be honest with you, that's far from being the hardest to do with Valk (236B>236B>brJA and the wolf loop to be more accurate). Still, you will soon notice that it's just a matter of finding the right timing and grind it as much as possible. Good luck anyway.