Magaki

Sadly, there is no secret really. Just try to press faster. Press 5D>5B like if it was a double tap. In CP, if you want to wolf brake, you have to press either 1C,4C or 7C.

I agree with w5B but 6B>3C was my first answer towards people who were mashing DPs during blockstring.

For some reason, I also have troubles doing 7D while the wolf is on the ground. 60% of the time, the game makes 7 comes out first. Same problem with 2C and 5C(on hit). Seems the game give priority to the jump cancel instead of 7D. It's possible to make them come out but you need to be extremely accurate. 6B,3C and 6C obviously works wonder because they aren't jump cancelable. I strongly suggest to use those 3 normals or specials if you plan to do 7D in order to catch mashers or avoid certain DP in a blockstring.

If you get w5B instead, you press 5D way too fast. Try to delay it a bit. You have to press 5D exactly when the wolf lands.

So yeah, I managed to get my hands on CP now. Dunno if I'm the only one here, but I can't manage to do w5C>1D>4C>w5C. Well, I can but I miss a lot. I have no troubles at all doing it with w5C>3D>4C>w5C. It feels like the timing is too tight with 1D or 2D. Am I the only one in that situation ? Also, the fact that you can't gatling 6B>3C seems to seriously affects Valkenhayn's pressure and mostly using 6B as an okizeme. Doesn't really seem to be that great as a meaty now. 6B,2B link still seems to work in order to frame trap.

My apologies. I'll ask some people that know japanese to translate it in order to be sure. I just know close to nothing about that language. I completely agree with them here. Just pressing 1DCA makes it much better execution-wise. I would suggest you to simply write the easiest path (once we will do more tests though) and/or put a note indicating that 2D/3D are possible too.

Yeah, Shyn guessed it right indeed. And well, I guess that learning some wolf combo will allow you to get used to it and learn the bnb so you kill 2 birds with one stone.

a-cho 09/22/13 Valkenhayn vs Carl A wild and mysterious Valk show up . . . Valkenhayn vs Nu Valkenhayn vs Mu (w5C seems to be used a lot as a meaty and that's the only match where he used it as such.) Valkenhayn vs Ragna (Warning: This is a DPfest. Just watching make you salty.) Valkenhayn vs Mu Valkenhayn vs Jin Valkenhayn vs Jin

The pleasure is all mine. We aren't a lot on this forum but we are all willing to help so don't hesitate asking if you have any troubles. Waiting for those PSN codes is seriously getting unbearable . . . ANYWAY ! I still got something that might help you guys with the w5C loop. On the japanese wiki, we can read this: Collapsed: Original Text: Cループはラーゼンの着地間際にブレーキをすると、着地硬直がなくなることを利用したもの 　その為、入力は、 　C>1D or 2D or 3D>4C 　とやる必要がある 　上記の説明だと 　C>1D>4C>5Cってやる必要があるように思えるけど、実際は上のように着地際４C長押しをするだけで 　着地と同時に５Cがでる 　3回以上ループさせるには、１Dラーゼンの場合は後ろに下がってしまい、ループ出来ないので３Dにする必要がある 　つまり 　C>3D>着地際4C 　のようにコマンドを入れる必要がある Through google translate, we get this: Collapsed: Translated text: When a brake on the point of landing Razen, C loop that was utilized that landing rigid disappears Therefore, the input, C> 1D or 2D or 3D> 4C It is necessary to do the When it is explained above It seems it is necessary to do me C> 1D> 4C> 5C, but you only need to press and hold the 4C landing when as on actual 5C comes out at the same time as the landing To loop three times or more, it would stand back if Razen 1D, it is necessary to 3D so can not loop That is C> 3D> landing when 4C There is a need to put the command as In other words, you INDEED need to cancel the recovery of 2D with 4C. The interesting part however is the "press and hold the 4C landing when as on actual 5C comes out". Either it's the usual mistakes with google OR perhaps pressing 4C would actually to cancel AND triggers 5C at the same time ? Sounds too good to be true but it's easy to test. Seems also that if you want to loop it more than thrice, you need to rather press 3D. That was quite obvious though.

I would first suggest you to check Valkenhayn's CP wiki or his CSE one if you only have Extend. After that, starts learning some human combos and try out wolf mode in order to be more comfortable with him. Once you will get used to his gamestyle, study Kiba's guide. It got more than enough to make you a really strong player and is quite complete. Obviously, studying competitive players will help you a lot and you got hours and hours of videos in the video thread. Overall, Valkenhayn's learning curve is rather hard and his execution is arguably one of the hardest in the cast. However, he's completely worth investing hours of training and really fun to play.

A few questions for people who managed to get their hands on the game earlier than others if they don't mind: First question: I heard that the inputs are quite sensitive now in CP especially for 623 patterns. Thankfully, Valk doesn't have any move following that pattern. However, did you have any troubles considering the inputs in general with him ? Second question: Considering that Valkenhayn's wolf mode drastically changed, did switching from CS to CP wolf mode proved to be hard or you had no troubles ? If you're already used to it, do you consider that overall it's easier to use wolf mode now or it was better in CS ? There are also 2 points I would like to confirm: A friend told me that brJA was much harder to do now. I didn't manage to talk to him again so I don't know if he meant that it was because he wasn't used to it OR because the wolf brakes are harder to do. Another thing he said was that, because of the reduced hitstop, CH hitconfirms were really difficult. Your opinion about it ?

I agree here. Every good Valk players in CP seems to go after 3C>236B for either wolf mode pressure or 6B. The latter seems to be even better at catching tech rolls but even if that would be the case, it can't be compared to what you can do with wolf mode on wake-up. Here are some things that I saw as oki: -IAD>wjA Seems to allow Valk to catch chicken blocking on wake-up. I don't really like it to be honest and I've yet to see it REALLY succeed. Perhaps you can do IAD>wjA>wj236C and you don't get a purple throw ? Only saw Uma no Hone and Zekuso use it so far. -(Walk backward)>(Walk forward)>w5B Seems that if you do it that way and the opponent roll, they won't go through Valk while rolling. Seems okay but I don't like it that much. Perhaps this is what you do if you miss the timing ? -w5C This is probably the first thing that I definetely need to try once I get my hands on CP. I don't exactly remember the video (Hope Kiba does) but Valk's w5C clashed against Mu's DP on wake-up. Now, I don't really know if it's a legit meaty against DPs or something like that but if they both clash, it means that their active hitboxes collided right ? However, if you consider that Mu's 623C got 14 startup frames, it means that the meaty was completely mistimed and Mu could have chicken blocked instead giving the large window the Mu player had. We also don't know what would have happened if the Valk player timed it properly. w5C also only got 3 active frames which is the same as w5A. However, whiffing w5A isn't a big deal while the 21 recovery of w5C can be fatal. Anyway, this is something that should definetely be tested. -wjC My favourite. Cool attack, nice damage, large hitbox, catch tech rolls, overhead, easy to hitconfirm, swag. -5A(whiff)>2B I know, this is something that I wrote above. However, it's regularly used by Zekuso after a 3C combo ender in the corner. The reason why it was worth noting means that the timing after a 3C ender is quite close to the result of jB>djB>djC which is really interesting and makes most stuff written above still viable. To be honest, could you please lock it in 2 weeks or something like that ? The reason why I did the second post is for CP more specifically. The fact that most of our combos will end with 3C or 3C>236B might alter slightly or completely the oki options we had on Extend and the second post was made especially for that: Testing what seems to work and what doesn't anymore. If after 2 weeks no one else feel like posting here, I will simply write it in the general section like you suggested.

Dustloop: Magaki PSN: Magaki_x1 Location: France

*Reserved* Can be useful in the future.

A while ago, I talked with Kiba about some interesting things I found in training mode with Valk. Kiba then had the idea to start a discussion about it in order to add an okizeme section in the Valkenhayn guide he wrote. Idea that I like a lot. The goal of this thread is to decide what should be added and/or removed to make it as complete and clear as possible for the guide. Obviously, most of it is based on CSEX however it seems that it's roughly the same thing for CP (Except for w5C who seems quite interesting as a meaty). Please do not hesitate sharing your opinion especially about: -Removing a part of it. -Adding new things you know/found. (Your name will obviously be added in the specific part you added.) -Don't understand a part because it's not clear. -Changing the way it's written. (Need help on that one to be honest.) _________________________________________________________________________________________ Okizeme Even though Valkenhayn doesn't possess specials like Relius' 236D or Lambda's 236D, his amazing corner carry and powerful normals give him one of the most rewarding okizeme through the use of meaty attacks. -------------------Human form-------------------[b/] -------------------Wolf mode------------------- -------------------Shenanigans/Situationnal actions-------------------

Ohh ? My apologies.

For Valk ? About wolf mode: Nerf: -w5A isn't a low anymore and is replaced with w5C as the only low in wolf mode. A 10-frame startup low. Makes his mixup really unsafe. -w5B only launch on air hit making his wolf combos use more wolf gauge. -wolf canons make them float in a weird way making his usual followups character specific. -Ultra slow wolf regen. Buff: -jC is a great normal even if it's slow. -Wolf gauge is bigger allowing for longer pressure. Human mode: Nerf: -Nacht Rosen and Mondlicht (his main human launchers) make the opponent float in a weird way which makes the combos crappier compared to CS. Buff: -5C, 2C and 3C wolf cancelable. 2C is the only one relatively safe here. -236B startup increased (important for his oki in CP.) Overall: -Huge damage nerf. (He needs a lot of efforts to get more than 4k.) -Huge meter gain nerf. -Gets CH if he's in wolf mode whether he's doing something or not giving him a lot of tough matchups against anyone who can more or less zone or can control a lot of space. -Wolf regen nerf means you will have to spend most of the time sitting on your ass in neutral waiting for it to regen if you fail to get in on the first try. That's not all the changes but those are the most important. They nerfed the hell out of him and you need to take more risk with him now to win. IMO he's one of the characters who had the most changes and but the fact that you can do more things with him thanks to the increased wolf gauge still makes him solid. You can bait more stuff or try things you couldn't do in Extend (wolf shenanigans all day, everyday.) Keep also in mind that the reason he looks "retarded" in CP is that he doesn't let his opponent go and keep him in the corner. It's normal because when the opponent manages to get away or Valk is put in defense, it often means he lost the round.

Ohh I get it now ! I did see some matches but I never noticed that 4DD resulted in the same thing as 6D. As for 5D, yeah it explains why they didn't use it at all in the matches I saw or why the Zappa player mostly used 6D during the infinite. Another question then if you don't mind. Considering you said before that 6D and 4DD (the auto-dive like you call it) immediately knockdown on air hit, did you mean that it's impossible to combo afterwards or you can followup with cS or even 2H for an air combo ?

I don't have a 360 nor a vita but there is something that worries me quite a bit based on your informations (Who are actually really helpful. Thank you very much for that.). Did you try the AC dog combos in +R ? If that is the case, is it still possible to do stuff like 4DD>2K>cS>fS>5D>2K>cS>fS>2D in the corner or the pushback for the dive is way too strong ? Also, based on what you said, it seems that the combos midscreen will be much easier to set up. However, are they different compared to AC ? And what about the damage ?

It's mostly doing it early that I meant hence why I said jC CH because of hitting Nu when she's in the recovery of Spike Chaser. More than once, Masashi was simply sitting and blocking without being in gravity seeds. (If you feel like watching it again, check 0:26 and 1:36. He had more than enough time for the first one. Not sure for the second one though. Would have been quite strict.) However, I agree with the fact that blocking is the best option with gravity seeds. Now that I think about it, perhaps Masashi was rushing in the end on wake-up to avoid the sickle oki ? And yeah, Protos did some really good reads to keep him at bay.

Dunno what really happened in that match for Masashi to screw up so badly. Seems he respected the Nu's zoning way too much in the first round. He could have punished 236D~C easily with w66D and get a jC CH but simply blocked and waited. Afterwards he didn't respect anything it seems and just focused on rushing. Well that's at least my opinion. wj236B>2D>wj214A seems quite useful against Nu though. Unless you're predictable and gets hit by her 2D during the startup of wj236B.

Considering that I'm quite confident with that matchup, I would like to share what I know. ---------Neutral game---------- Like Kiba and LuminAbyss pointed out, Ragna's footsies are really dangerous and hard to deal with in both human and OBVIOUSLY in wolf mode. Based on what I talked about with Ragna players, the most annoying part for them is to manage to get in and that's pretty much what you have to abuse in order to win the matchup: playing a cat and mouse game with him. The idea is pretty much to frustrate him into trying to get in which will make the Ragna player do a mistake. The easiest way is simply to go to the other side of the screen and run back and forth in wolf mode. Like Lumin pointed out, the biggest threat at this point is obviously Hell's Fang and THAT'S what you will have to react to. Once you see Ragna getting his usual purple flames (Really easy to react to), hits 7C to make him whiff and punish. You don't even need to do anything in particular. Just land and punish. The easiest thing you can punish while playing tag with him is IAD jC which is a huge mistake that you will be able to punish right away with w5B. Be really careful however. If Ragna didn't airdash, he might be trying to bait the w5B with a double jump so don't think Ragna jumping grants you a free combo. Another thing quite rare he can pull off is Belial Edge after baiting w5B. It's not really great to be honest but it's still a possibility. If the Ragna player seems to actually know how to keeps his cool, wolf cross ups shenanigans work wonders especially because of his particular vertical hitboxes. 6A seems kinda helpless and never manage to catch Valk unless you're being predictable. On the other hand, the move that might hinder you the most in the air when you try to get in seems to be 623D and not GH. GH isn't really that much of a threat but 623D can and WILL get you if you wolf cannon in order to cross him up or simply don't vary your air shenanigans and the axe kick that will follow will give him oki meaning you're now in a defensive situation. This should be more than enough to beat him in neutral. Of course, you can still try to get him on the ground in wolf mode or even throw a ballsy w236A to surprise him but 5B will easily beat you in that case. Doesn't mean you can't use it sometimes to surprise him or bait the 5B. I don't really think that you have enough time to get big rewards by baiting and punishing it though. Depends of how confident you are. ---------Offensive game---------- Inferno Divider is obviously a huge threat in offense and will beat a LOT of things you will try to pull off in wolf mode. If you want to keep pressuring, you have 2 choices: Either pressure and make sure to have enough wolf gauge to be able to try baiting some mashing 5A/2A/ID attempts OR cross him up. The latter is actually particularly useful against Inferno Divider and it's quite common to see it whiff completely once you're behind him if he likes to use it a lot. If it happens, you have more than enough time to walk and lands a 2C to punish accordingly and get a ton of damage. The option I use the most though is simply to go to the other side of the screen after I get oki. True, it will make the match draw out longer but it's a pretty good choice against ID-happy ragnas. If you're quite confident into playing tag, it will frustrate him even more leading to more mistakes meaning better rewards for you. ---------Defensive game---------- Ragna's pressure is actually quite crappy. As explained extremely clearly by Lumin, Dead Spike is what you have to watch out for as well as 6D. Against Dead Spike (Assuming it's stuff>5C>Dead Spike): IB 5B CH>Rozen works quite well and is an insanely good choice if the opponent is in 5B's range. If it's not in 5B's range . . . Aouch. Jumping out of Dead Spike is the easiest choice but there are actually ways to punish it WITHOUT instant blocking. The easiest way simply consist to jump forward and press jC which will grant you a counter hit EXCEPT when you're at max range. If you got some wolf gauge, you can do jC CH>delay>j214B and get a free combo. However in my opinion the best way requires a bit of training but it's MUCH better. When you see the Dead Spike coming, jump>jD>3C>wjA. Will avoid Dead Spike at any range wherever you are and will give you a CH at best or the opponent will have enough time to block which allow you to start pressuring anyway. Against 6D (Assuming against it's stuff>5C>6D): Simply press 5A>2C and combo if HE'S in 5A's range. If he isn't, don't bother or you will eat a CH. If 6D isn't in 5A's range it will most likely whiff. Sturm wolf works wonders as a punish. Another thing I would like to point out that I've only seen rarely: you can get crossed up with a simple jump-in jC which will combo with a 5B once Ragna lands. He can also do it with jB but he needs to be much closer to the ground to pull it off. It will either be used as a meaty if you neutral tech or after a 5A in pressure. Don't know if it's actually a good choice or not but now you know that it's a possibility. Of course, if you disagree, I would be more than glad to talk more about it and hear other opinions. I believe it would only make the matchup much easier to understand.

Thank you very much for the tips. I'll definetely keep it in mind next time we play. There is something I would like to know though. Could you please talk more about you think of Valkenhayn as a Mu player ? Like which moves you watch out for or what you consider to be the mistakes a Valk player can do against Mu ?

Thank you very much for the quick reply. Never thought about using this method actually. I always try my best to not end up into any situation that will put me in the defensive. Especially when I'm not that great when it comes to that part (Have some troubles reacting to some overheads like Mu's. Like, when I see it, I press 4 too late.). Still, I will definetely try it out at least once to see if it does bring some result. That's what I do to surprise my opponent. I go with w5A if the opponent is on the ground and w5B when he's in the air. Mu's 5C is however the main answer I stumble upon. And considering the lasers around, baiting isn't an option. I was considering lately simply running in wolf mode then jump>jD>Barrier block. If the opponent used 5C, it will whiff allowing me to punish with a falling jC. Do you think it might be worth trying or it's too risky ? The command grab helped me countless times indeed and I tend to use it by rushing when I know the opponent will block, when the opponent is waking up or after pressuring and doing w5C>wjA>w236D . I know the last part is ultra obvious but so far I never stumbled upon someone who could read that and punish accordingly considering it's not what I use the most. As for Mu's lasers, when I know shit is gonna pour soon, I simply attack and try to make the Mu player block at least considering that the lasers won't show up if she's in hitstun/blockstun. Of course, there is still Ame no Totsuka but I simply jump>Air barrier block when I see it coming. Always worked so far. Out of the pressure strings you mentionned, the ones I use are 236B wolf cancel and j214B wolf cancel. However, I would like to point out that I actually use them against mashers or people who consider that mashing is more than enough against Valk's pressure. I usually do afterwards 7DD>jB or jC or 4D>wj236A. Seems quite good so far against DPs and 5A mash but the risk is that the opponent got a way to jump out of pressure. Sadly, that Mu player seems to know the matchup and that blockstring quite well and that's what happens. I used 7DD>Throw once and it worked but afterwards, he mixed in some air DP after that or simply tech the throw. I also did read the strategy guide countless times which, to be honest, helped me tremendously. Thanks for putting so much work on it because it helped me much more than any videos on youtube or nicovideo. Still, I think I'll simply read it again and make sure this time to correctly memorize all the blockstrings this time rather than only selecting a few of them. Yeah. Aside from that 6B, I have no troubles at all in defense. The main reason why I lose is simply because 90% of the time I try to get in, I end up eating a combo because of the lasers. Her offense IMO is simply average. I do share the same opinion for neutral but waiting for the right opportunity result in the Mu player having more time to set lasers. Seems that he prefers to stay in the air and get steins from there. Running forward with w5B wasn't really successful. I never thought however of downright dashing through the forest of lasers right away. Might actually work if I do it after I see the first stein being set. If it doesn't work, well . . . Valkenhayn will probably be as helpless as the heroine of a hentai tentacle. As for 5C, I like to use it in some matchups but I just don't like the idea of using it at all here. I actually did watch a lot of Valk vs Mu matches. To be more accurate, I watched Hima's, Uma no Hone's, Nao's, Shuu's and also yours. About the match with Ixisnaugus, I did use some of the stuff you did and they almost all got beaten by 5A, 6A or the DP. I think I'll simply put more work into better ways to bait this kind of situation. Another thing I would like to point out however is the fact that I never saw the Mu player I usually fight against do mistakes like poorly spaced 5Cs, mashing when he shouldn't and other things like that. Perhaps Ixisnaugus did them because of the lag ? Still looks like a pretty good player though. Anyway, I will practice what you said and will try it next time I have the opportunity to. I'll give a proper feedback at this point in order to report what worked and what wasn't successful.

Greetings. Does anyone here have more tips against Mu ? The only Mu I fight against is a pretty good one (850+ PSR) and the match is . . . Really one-sided. I have huge troubles getting in and I try to vary my approach as much as possible. I use Jump>w66D, Jump>wj236A>command dash, command dash shenanigans or simply running towards her in wolf mode and go with w5A but as you can easily guess, I'm not successful. Most of the time, I get owned by either the DP, 6A, 5C, jC and j2C in neutral. I tried to bait that with either w4C and w7C but I get gangbanged by the lasers before I can even punish her. When I do manage to get in though, I most of the time get mashed out of my pressure and I can assure you that I'm not the kind to go with easy stuff like 5C>6C. I usually prefer to use 6B and 236B wolf cancels. For some reason, I never managed to get her with Jump cancel>jC>RC>jC or jC>Mondlicht>wolf cancel. 6B still seems to be the most reliable option both in pressure and as a meaty. Still, offense isn't really that much of a big deal compared to neutral. Getting in is extremely hard with all those lasers flying around and going into wolf mode is a huge risk. However if I decide to simply keep my cool and stay in human mode to grasp a good opportunity, I get badly zoned and barely can move out of blockstun at all. Most reliable option to slowly approach is to wait for the right timing to do 236A. Wolf canceling is a no-no unless I want to get gangbanged by those damn lasers again and eat a combo or get pressured. Anyway, like you could understand, I really have HUGE troubles in neutral and can't manage to find any reliable option. A few notes that might spark some ideas: I mostly use my meter for Counter Assault which seems to be pretty good against Mu's pressure and allow me to be the one to start going on the offense by going into wolf mode right away. Most of the time when I use wj66d, the Mu player answers with a jump j2C who is quite good to beat a lot of high air attempt it seems. I tried to bait D7C that too but you know . . . Lasers. Another thing I watch out: if I want to do any air attempt, I wait for the steins close to her to shoot first THEN try to get in after that. Those seem to be the ones that are the most threatening lasers because of their angles.