ThatHiroGuy

Did you read my whole post? You can't hop cancel if 2C doesn't hit the opponent. You can't roll before 2C. Therefore, the point that most opponents will try to get out, and are safest to, is probably when you do 2C. And again, if they roll it, Margaret literally can't hop, leaving you blocking, or if you want, punishing their roll. As for backdashes, it's just one of those hard to call moments in matches. When you do mixup/blockstrings with her, you're going to have to judge the opponent by how well you've conditioned them, or what they catch on to. If they're backdashing a lot, then don't bother throwing out 2C, start throwing out a projectile afterwords. If they roll through a lot, then start doing what I said. I'm sure someone will find something nasty eventually, but for now, you're gonna have to play matches by the ear with blockstrings. Edit: Also, if the time comes where they roll AFTER 2C, then you could substitute j.2C with another normal that won't whiff them. Since you can do j.D so close to the ground, that will catch them at the point that they finish the dash, it's CH status, and you can combo from there. Hop j.D, that is.

Why does nobody listen to me ;A;...

Basically the post I already made. Check it out. You can make them respect, hop is your best option.

Blockstring> 5B>5A>5B>5C>2C>Hop cancel (not sure the input xD)>j.2C. Hold down-back while doing 2C. What I found is, your opponent can only hit Yoshitsune. No punish for Marg. Dp or otherwise, it's just flat out not smart for them to do. If they dash through your 2C, Margaret will not hop cancel, because she failed to hit you with Yoshitsune. You'll block whatever they throw at you, and matter of fact, you should be able to counterhit them for dashing through 2C. At the very least, you should be able to grab them. Should they choose to block 2C, but they think you're going for the command grab next, the hop cancel into j.2C will hit them, regardless of the direction they jump.

j.A seems like a poor option, and wouldn't it be hard to actually do the proper input for safe-jumping j.C? I'm just saying, because the way I was taught to safe-jump makes me think you'd just get j.2C instead of j.C.

Heals both players. I'm not sure what's with the deal with it's inconsistent heal amounts, but there's matches where I heal a ton, and others where I heal really low (worthless) amounts.

FOUND SOME REALLY COOL, ACTUALLY USEFUL STUFF. But I'll reply to the question first, Susano. I guess, from watching those videos, not caring. From how that Kubo guy plays her, it seems like he just plays a solid, patient spacing game until he knows he can go in with a 5B. From 5B, a lot of options seem to open up for safe pressure. 5B>5A>5B>5C is what I took away from those videos. Essentially, he uses 5B to get in since it travels so far, and pretty fast. Then uses 5A only so that he can go back to 5B again. I'm not entirely too sure why he does that, but whatever. After that, technically, you could go anywhere. That's where it seemed like he gained the most leverage in his matches. You could use God's Hand, since a DP will only break your Persona, and allow for them to be counterhit. If they dodge roll it, you won't be counterhit for trying, and from what I saw, it only put them in a worse position. Sweep isn't a bad idea, if the opponent is conditioned, and you still won't be close enough to be punished for trying. Any other option works pretty well, too. NOW THE COOL STUFF. Kubo also uses a very basic BnB in the air. j.C>j.2C>jump cancel>j.C>j.2C>j.214B. What's really interesting about that, is the potential for a scary setup afterwords. Notice, you'll still be left airborne while your opponent is thrown to the ground. You can still act while falling. Apparently, Yoshitsune doesn't move from his position after knocking them down for quite a while. This means you can actually throw things out, and they won't even see it, since he's off screen. It makes it so that your Persona is in their face while you're on the complete other side of the screen, RIGHT on their wakeup. Some things I've messed around with, after finding this... -After the combo, while Margaret is falling, j.2D. Ardha will fire an ice-ball from off-screen. It'll catch people who are jumping, but if they run forward, they should be fine. -After the combo, while Margaret falls, j.22C will throw Yoshitsune in their face. It'll be there basically right when they tech bounce. You can immediately cancel that into 2D if they jump after wakeup, and it'll catch it. Really good setup. -Blah blah, as she falls, j.2D>2C (on the ground after you land). The effect of this is, it places Yoshitsune on the opposite side of the opponent. The Ice-Ball should be incentive for them to not do anything. As I said before, they can just run forward, but since you placed Yoshitsune on the other side (off-screen), you can throw a projectile (236C) and they'll be forced to stop and block it. There's actually a lot more you can do with this knowledge. It allows you to keep a bit of a lockdown on them from full-screen after the combo. And not only that, but you can pretty much get 2k-ish damage from full-screen, with no worries of being punished for (most) things you try.

... You can also put your Persona off screen. Very hard to do, but it can be done, and it's hilarious.

Setups! This only works close, so I don't really know why it has me so excited, but here you are. Right next to your opponent- 5D>2B>jump cancel>(insert persona special). The idea is to go through the opponent with 2B (read- use 2B as soon as Ardha grabs them). When you go through, you'll be pushed by their forward momentum, so you don't have to chase them down. When they (and you) are about to land, you can jump cancel, then choose which side to end up on. You can also use Ardha (who's sitting on the opposite side of them now) as placement for a new Persona attack that'll hit them on the other side. For passing through them, 5B works too, and is ultimately less tricky due to the jump cancel on 2B being a pain to time. I'll try to get a video of me doing it, but I just like it, it's pretty neat, and you can do so many ambiguous things with it. This actually would be extremely frightening in the corner, since it's a given that you'll be close to them anyway.

It should. It's been like that, for as long as I can remember with DLC in their games, unless I'm remembering incorrectly. Blazblue, and P4U anyway.

Why do you hate me, Anne? ;A;

j.236C isn't overhead. Was trying to do 2B>cancel after first hit (but midair) j.236C yesterday and you can not only DP it very easily, but you can roll through it, and it can simply be blocked ( I think) mid. Definitely doesn't hit overhead. Can't reasonably cancel it into other moves that I know of, either.

Ooh boy. Started playing her in player matches a little bit just to get a bit of a feel for her in an actual match. This isn't me saying I think I know anything definitively, just questioning how this may work, but... it's sort of hard to keep people locked down with her. She definitely has a ton of options at her disposal, but a lot of her ground game is strictly horizontal, with very little vertical added in. Basically, if someone IAD's you and you're doing a normal, or even a Persona attack, they might jump over it entirely, or blow you up for trying. Especially true if they block any of your attacks and get in on you. I want to believe that she's more effective at mid-long range than close up, but it's just sort of weird how that plays out in an actual match. Probably need to play more. That being said, when she IS close up, I feel like she's actually really scary. Whenever I've gotten in, people really do struggle blocking. Probably due to her being new, but still. If it only gets better from here, then it'll be quite a struggle blocking her. In terms of her air game, one would think it's awesome, but I'm not sure that's where her strength lies. It's pretty easy to hit her out of j.B, even as an IAD. Unless you're someone like Akihiko or maybe Kanji, you can air to air it pretty easily, or anti-air, or DP it. Other than that, I'm not sure how you can actually approach in the air with her. She's got good moves to play defensively in the air, it seems, but nothing for approach. I guess the simplest way to explain it is... I feel like there's ways I should be forcing my opponent to respect my pressure/ presence, and I should exert dominance at certain spacing, but it's hard to actually achieve it, even if I know the move to use and when to use it. Just some thoughts to ramble. If anyone wants to chime in on their experience and if they felt similarly, it could only help :3!

Super Jump> Down C (in rapid succession) gives you the 22C Yoshitsune attack. It KEEPS your momentum though, so you can do things to follow it up in the air! It's a great way to get your Personae to the opposite side of the screen quickly, if you want to actually use it to gain ground, instead.

Try this, and tell me how much you think you'll lose when you do it- IAD> j.C>j.D>sweep>214C. You have to make it so close to the ground that it's plus, by the way. I think you know the timing from what it sounds like. Tell me how you like that mixup . Darnit! Another edit. If you do that, sometimes you'll also get a HELLA ambiguous crossup with j.C and the j.D will crossup. The following parts I told you only get better with that being said.

Yeah I was fiddling with that around the time you posted this. I'm finding some NASTY pressure options now. Edit- Yoshitsune comes from wherever Ardha is in the sky after j.D/j.2D if you land and do 2C. The thing that's GREAT about this, is that when you do what Moogle was talking about (do a j.C->j.D really close to the ground) Yoshitsune comes out a lot faster than the normal 2C, and it makes it almost impossible (I'm gonna go ahead and say it flat out IS impossible) to punish him. Not that it's overhead or anything special.

Found something that just might be good! Someone testing it would be nice! So 2B. You can, as everyone's already seen, cancel it into a few other things. However, if you time it just right, you can get her airborne AND cancel into person specials mid-air (before other hits of 2B even come out). So far I've not found big uses for it, but I'm sure people can find something. I can cancel into Yoshitsune specials, C-C specials, but I don't know what to do after them. It seems like you can NOT anti-air this, as it'll catch you mashing. You can DP it, but if someone's mashing, it probably won't come out, depending on the special you use. You have to time the DP for it to come out. j.214A seems to be like the best one to use, since it doesn't give much time for them to do anything. It also seems as if it's positive when you land from this, allowing you to go for a nasty 5A, or just block. Cool note, too... When you do j.214A (through this method I explained), when you hit the ground, you can do any of the other Persona switches, and they'll be on the other side of the opponent. Edit: Depends on how close you are, for that last part. All of this would be nice if it had uses, since you can tag an opponent with 5A (even if they block it), and then go for a 5B>2B to start everything off.

I just can't wait to see the opinions on Margaret in the first week. While she looks incredible, its really up in the air. Looking at a few of the things she can do makes her look all powerful, but then you remember how crazy Liz looks, and how people actually feel about her haha.

Yeah, no doubt. I'm all for character conversation. If there's anything I hate, it's when people accuse me of 'whining' because I'm offering opinions. Agreed on other points too.

Going to Adachi character threads, if that's to be any indication of player feelings, sort of shows otherwise. A lot of the players there found some neat stuff, for sure. However, a lot of the people there seem to feel like he truly shines when awakened, but is a bit lacking outside of that. Not necessarily weak, but I don't think it's fair to say that people thought he was overall 'strong' from the get-go. Just opinions, moving on. I don't really think he missed the point, your point is just made fairly often, and it's one that doesn't really beg to be explored in fighting games anymore. The point that, "New characters are bad until someone busts them wide open and shows all of the possibilities (or lack thereof)" is nothing new, and you're sort of just reiterating that same idea. Speculation, educated thoughts, and that sort of thing are only positive in their influence, so nothing wrong with that. For what it's worth, I do like that you fully explain your thoughts. I love reading up on stuff like that .

Lol, you're so vehement at comments being made here. No need to be that way towards people. A lot of the people questioning the topic are coming with a level head, and (at least marginally) intelligent explanations behind them. I'm not really on either side of the discussion, but you're essentially expecting everyone to feel the same way about the topic at hand, or "They're being dumb", and "We shouldn't be having this conversation". If the conversation is going to be had at all, impressions and ideas from all sides should be expected :P. Just had to chime in ^_^.

So.... this board died pretty quick after release. Or is it just that people's attention has switched from this thread to character threads?

Minazuki does have low damage without resources. The highest I can think of... without any special conditions, would be in the corner, off a good confirm, which leads to about 2.5k. The biggest issue isn't necessarily his damage, it's just the conditions to actually get into his higher damage options, because he DOES have them. Conditions like hitting people with 2B while they're airborne at just the right height to pick them up after the second hit. CH someone on a 2D or j.2D, but once again, at just the right aerial height to catch them before teching. A lot of his combos may be viable, and even reliable, but they're quite inflexible.

Wait, since when has Beauty of Destiny been a track you could select (anywhere in the game)? Are these just tracks from anything and everything Persona that (should) be in the game at some point, or actual confirmed songs to be DLC or otherwise?

Is the only way to get high damage on Minazuki, from doing the SB version of the falling fang or whatever (the 4A+B followup) into 2A? I'm having a LOT of issues getting the timing for that...