JackG

When did I mention punishing Slayer's backdash? I know what BDC is, and I know you can't punish Slayer out of it.

Hey guys, what with FR coming up real soon and all I've been practicing my combos so I don't look like a scrub there. Additionally, I've been trying super jump install combos on most of the cast to see who it works on and who it doesn't: Usually the combo starts like this: CH j.S (for the launch) run up 5k (JI),5s(JC) SJ> j.k, j.s, j.p, j.s, dj, j.k, j.d You can also, instead of doing JI 5k into 5s, a single JI'd 5s (although this is a bit tougher because the JI frames aren't till after you hit 5s) I haven't tested everyone, but the more difficult ones I've found so far are: Sol: absolutely awful, every variation tried on him just isn't working Ky, Testament: Very hard, but doable. Usually involves 5s,2p,5s (JC) with a JI in either of the two 5s's. I'm sure there are other characters that are problematic (maybe RK, PO, Eddie?) But I haven't gotten around to testing them all yet. I wanted to post here to see what the other RK players in the US were doing for JI combos, and who they worked on. Also, I'm curious what kind of launches you can do JI combos off of. My main one is CH j.S, but there's also CH robo dash, CH level 3 horsie (only on a few people), sometimes the situational Shoryu super, etc. Let's hear it!

I disagree. First of all, the backdasher does not have to punish with a throw. For example, Robo-Ky backdash is 14 frames long, and 10 of which are invulnerable (probably why I think backdashing is a good idea). Slayer's (an example) only has one more with more than 10 active frames, so there is a decent change you will be able to punish him. But you can punish with anything so long as the startup time of that move is less than the number of whiffed frames of your opponents move you backdashed. Then again, I play Robo-Ky who's backdash is amazing and his jump is super low and slow, so it gets punished by damn near everything. I will tell you that if you have a good backdash it isn't good to ALWAYS use out of the corner, a well timed Shoryu if you have it is nice, and most other characters have some kind of outs for those situations. Notice that most backdashses are primarily invuln frames versus vuln ones, even the worse ones. stolen from Johnny Forums:

Thing's that float/lead to air combos: CH j.S -c.S CH j.HS (near wall) CH or regular hit Robo Dash BnB:5k/5s/2s or any other variation that leads into 2s Horsie: non CH requires 5HS frc to continue into air combo. Off of a counterhit you can just run up and 5s>air combo. If you are point blank and CH with it (think okizeme as throw bait) you can run up and do a superjump JI combo (though I have trouble doing it on certain chars) so while lots of moves float your opponent, you only need to do 5hs frc off of 2s or a non counterhit horsie to continue to air combo. otherwise just do c.5s (unless you really need the extra damage off of 5hs to kill)

5p active frames:4 5k active frames:7 That is not to say 5k is better oki than 5p (as 5p is +7 on block, raises guardbar a ton) but 5k is almost twice as meaty.

Me!

What do you mean double tapping?

Yeah I'll try to get some vids of myself recorded at FR. I've been meaning to get some recorded for awhile now but never really got myself to get them recorded at gatherings.

yeah you can definately 5hs or srk out of second hit, right before she comes down with the second swing. Very handy.

For breaking out of ghost pressure (for me usually occurs in the corner) I lay a mat and just IB for awhile. When I get bored and he stops FRCing/isnt close enough to keep pressuring, TK level 3 missile and start your pressure. even if he launches a vertical ghost when you missile, youll recover fast enough to AD forward or block it. Even then, Zappa can run under missiles really easily so it isn't exactly that helpful I guess :/ At the very worst you can IB till you Dead angle to get rid of ghosts, but I dont find sword with his longer range normals or dog especially good to fight against either.

Just throw air missiles cause his hitbox is just lol-big kinda like Dizzy's. Just IB stuff till you get 50% and don't fall for his 2HS>scalpel shenanigans

I was wondering what made may a 5.5 in Robo's favor anyways, but then again the only May I play is Kyle and he's freaking ridiculous :/ Anyways to most grief I get about Robo Ky is 5d: yes, fastest in the game, good range, people hate it level 3 air missile: against Dizzy or Faust, it just makes it so hard for them to really do anything because there hitboxes are so big. Robo Dash: Going through overdrives, giving tons of tension, etc Robo's got his quirks that make him annoying, but it's a lot easier to learn how to deal with those versus say, Slayer's quirks (amazing damage off of anything, good high/low that is hardly punishable).

What May player? I mean I guess I can see how one could argue he's easy to learn. Comparatively I think it's easier to do Robo's BnB combos (just learn Hs FRC) whereas May has to learn charge, sol has to learn clean hit hitboxes, etc. However I think the playSTYLE of Robo Ky is slightly more complicated, aka learning to zone with no AA, knowing when and how to mat effectively, etc. In terms of SRK being OP, I'm pretty sure most every player I've played against for the first few times has accused it of being free/easy damage. Once they learn to bait it/do safer oki, the complaining generally stops.

Damn, just noticed it was your birthday Stormlocke. So, uh, Happy Birthday!

Cool combos, but spending tension on throw combos is generally never worth it unless they are going to die from it. Spending 25% on the throw frc is somethign I personally only do when they are below 20% or so. Also you say do j.HS and level 2 missile at the end of your pot combo when youre at at least 80% heat, meaning youre defiantely going to blow up at that point. Every time you get a grounded opponent to block the 4-way split level 3 missile, you get a run up free command throw/robo dash mixup.

Matchup Statistics Japanese Ranking: 5.5-4.5 in Robo's favor. Personally I think it's more like 6-4 in Robo favor. Openers: This is one matchup where your normals are generally much better than the opposing character. Since you want to hit 50% meter fast, I almost always go f(s)>2d because Dizzy basically has no punishes to that except maybe Ice Spike, but it's so unsafe you probably should never expect that. Okizeme: Opponent's tension is below 50% = Bazooka Opponent's tension is @ or above 50% = 5p/Lv3 Air Missile Luckily Dizzy only has the Coffin grab super as a legitimate wakeup reversal, and that doesn't even do that much damage. Punishes: Dizzy's game revolves around throwing crap like Bubbles, spikes, and fish. TK level 2 missiles are usually fast enough to get to Dizzy while she's summoning fish, and since she's in a counterhit state throughout summoning you can generally run up and combo or Robo Dash as well. At worst your missile will trade with fish/spike and you're back to square 1 with 10% less bar. Oh well. Dizzy's Air to Ground game via j.2s and j.hs is pretty good, so in general don't try to mess with them if you are grounded. If you see her coming in the air, a quick jump and j.HS or air missile will succinctly CH her for free combo/robodash for bar. Counters: It's simple, level 3 air missile is a counter to spike and fish, your two biggest concerns. 1 of 4 split missiles trades with spike or fish, rest pursue Dizzy. DO NOT try to Shoryu under pressure, as unless Dizzy is right next to you the shoryu will hit the fish while you are left flipping in the air letting Dizzy do whatever she wants to you. Shoryu only hits twice if Dizzy is on the ground and close enough to you. That being said, when you are under heavy Dizzy pressure, your best bet is to block all her aerials while Fish, spikes and bubbles are around, and watch for tick throws when she's on the ground. Keep in mind she has two airdashes, so don't start blocking low as soon as her first airdash looks to be over. On the ground, Dizzy's normals are in general garbage and slow, so an aptly timed 5HS FRC will CH her and you can run up>command grab>bazooka oki or whatever. On the ground Faultless her normals so as to avoid the throw, her range is better than yours! Delay getup is wonderful here. When Dizzy knocks you down, she'll be summoning fish/spike/bubble or whatever. Delay wakeup may not get you through all of it, but will definitely get you through at least one of the two fish iterations. Don't overuse or Dizzy will adjust her summons accordingly. Anti-airing: jump and j.HS her jump ins if you can do it early or jump air missile her ass out of the sky. Any level 2 or 3 homing missile will usually get to her as her hitbox is big. 2HS if she's way up in the air summoning bubbles or something. Let's not forget that Dizzy is also easiest to dizzy in the game. If you can get the level 2 air missile x4 combo on Dizzy, she will most likely faint. Zoning: All it comes down to is can you get >50% in neutral position, aka neither player is pressuring the other. If you do, the match is quite simple, spam level3 TK air missile. when the missile splits, each one of the four small missiles will trade with fish or spikes, leaving 3 more missiles following an unprotected Dizzy. Not only that, but she's so big and her ground mobility is so slow that it's damn near impossible for her to escape. Everytime you TK level 3 missile, land, start running and Dizzy is across the screen forced to block the missiles, you get a free mixup (usually either 5k/command grab/delay robo-dash for backdash). Level 3 air missiles make this match incredibly easy imo. f(s) to zone mid range on the ground and j.p and j.s in the air. Dizzy has a weaker AA game than most characters, so use that to your advantage. Their game plan: Put a bunch of fish spikes and bubbles out, and then attempt to rush you down. Dizzy has a slightly larger than average throw range as well as good setups after a throw, so in general keep an eye peeled for those. Sadly, if Dizzy does 6HS in an attempt to throw you while you backdash, her 6HS will come out and launch you out of backdash for an aircombo. If she's running towards you, just jump. Dizzy's AA game is pretty subpar so you should be safe. Dizzy's main goal is to summon and rush you down and hope you don't get above 50% bar. Strategy: IB and lay mats when you can till you get 50%. Spam level 3 missiles and take advantage of the fact that Dizzy's hitbox is humongous. Take advantage of free mixups off of Dizzy blocking level 3 split missiles on the ground. Abuse j.S and j.p against her and her bad anti airs. Delay wakeup to screw up her summon oki. Don't shoryu with fish around. Char specific details: Dizzy has a big-ass hitbox, so she's very easy to combo. Like I said, huge hitbox=easy missile target.

Openers: Not a ton of great options other than blocking, as Dandy step will easily avoid your opening moves and lead to you taking damage and knockdown most likely. f(s) or 6p are both usually the best move openers, as you can sometimes spam the 6p if they dandy step. However both of those moves lose to Slayer's 2d. That is why I suggest blocking, because you can IB the 2d on reaction for 2k>2s>2d. Jumping and doing j.p isn't bad either, but will lose to Slayer's j.k cause his legs are stupidly long. Punishes:Even though Slayer's 6k is a decently fast overhead, it is still +3 on block (REALLY DUMB) meaning even with an IB you can't punish it, so don't try. The best thing you can do is see it and respond with 5HS or level 3 Shoryu. Counters: 5HS beats Slayer's 6k, Horsie beats 2hs Slayer's batty cloud. Knee Rocket will beat Slayer's j.HS if you do it early enough, but the risk vs. reward makes it not necessarily a good idea. Anti-airing: Generally a bad idea, as a CH j.HS from Slayer means >50% of your life gone. You can try early knee rockets, but if he's too close you can go for the airthrow or IB>airthrow. Zoning:Try not to throw out long recovery moves, cause Dandy Step will tactgully avoid it and punish you. air missiles are very good in this matchup, as slayer cannot ground dash under them. Use these more than anything. Try to refrain from 2k, as mentioned 2hs will destroy it. Their game plan: Slayer has lots of mixup options with Dandy step, as well as 6k, 2k, 2HS, bite, feints, etc. He will pressure you all day long, and you have to be really careful with his dandy on getup. DO NOT try to throw S dandy, as it is throw invulnerable and you will die if you try it. Get used to 1 frame jumping out of his crap. Strategy: IB and peel your eyes for moves punishable in their startup, like 6k. Once you get the pressure on, it's hard for Slayer to escape, so go for knockdowns into bazooka oki all day. Char specific details: Slayer's average for comboing, nothing special here. He takes less damage than average.

Openers: Sol will generally start off with (f)S or 5HS, two far reaching, fast recovering normals. If you get CH by 5HS, Sol can IAD j.HS >5k> whatever so do not let that happen! The ONLY move you can do that will beat Sol's 5HS at the start is your own 5HS. HOWEVER, Robo's 5HS has huge recovery so do not do this unless you are fairly positive your opponent will lead with 5HS. Usually the risk is too big to lead off with Robo 5HS, and most of Sol's normals/specials will beat yours so the safest thing to do is just block on opening. If you IB Sol's 5HS from the start, expect him to IAD so you can jump and punish it. Okizeme: Sol has the best Shoryu in the game, so use that information wisely. A well timed meaty 5p will recover FASTER than the 5 frame startup of Volcanic Viper, so even in the case of a reversal if you on wakeup do 4p (blocking while 5p'ing) you can block VV and punish. Since there are two versions of VV, both with the option of the followup 214k to keep floating in the air, it makes it hard to figure out where you need to be to punish. IMO the hardest Shoryu in the game to punish (with the exception of maybe Buri, but his sucks anyways) Bazooka is usually safe from VV if you space it enough, but you still have to worry about Grand Viper, so if you are going to bazooka, make sure it's meaty so they have to reversal GV to hit you. Punishes: Like I said, VV is pretty damn hard to punish. Another annoying feature is that it isn't in the counter state for that long, so don't bank on punishing with something like j.S CH. usually best/easiest punish is j.p j.s dj j.s j.hs missile. If you can time command grab upon landing that works too. For Blocked Grand Vipers, I tend to IB the last hit, run up 2k, 2s, 2d. There isn't really that much time to punish even off of an IB, but if you're close enough command grab is better if they have bar. Riot Stomp is used few and far between, but it's really easily telegraphed so punish with j.S or j.HS for CH goodness. If Sol is in the habit of gunflaming you over and over, you can jump or IAD over it and j.S for the CH. Just keep in mind Sol is in recovery for all 50 or whatever frames of gunflame, and the flames are easier to jump over than you think. However, most good Sol's generally don't use gunflame unless they are comboing or FRCing it, so use this tactic only when the Sol you're against doesn't have bar or has been consistently not FRCing it as pressure. jumping in on Sol is a HORRIBLE idea when he FRCs gunflame or otherwise, as his AA's like 5k just beat everything you have. Counters: If you see the 2k>2d coming, level 3 horsie on reaction for the counterhit. his 2k and 2d are hella fast, so not always going to work. Anti-airing: This is the hardest part about beating Sol I think, simply put his ground to air game is amazing and Robo's AA game sucks. 2HS is only good for anticipatory jumps or air dashes in from Sol, and generally do not have any follow ups on hit. Sadly Sol's j.S is faster and outranges your air normals, so you should either j.hs for the range or jump>IB>airthrow or just just>airthrow. This sounds crazy, but I like to AA with 2k right as they are falling, since the low profile avoids j.HS, and the active frames of 2k will hit right as you land. once that connects, you can just hitconfirm into 2s>2d. Zoning: Not easy, his normals are generally better than yours, and gunflame is just not fun to work around. Try to create distance to lay a mat and just defend it. If you anticipate him jumping in on you zone with 2hs but Sol's running speed means he can punish if you do it too close to him and he doesn't jump. f(s) gatlin into 2d is good, but will lose to Sol's 5HS. Their game plan: They can punish Bazooka Okizeme with Grand Viper as they are waking up. Adjust your gameplan accordingly making use of Backdash, 5p, or 5hs FRC whiffing. Sol's only ground overhead is his 5d which is really slow and bad, so the only mixup you should worry about on the ground is lows or his command grab, both of which will lead to high damage when connected. Get used to Faultlessing some of Sol's setups for tick throws, such as 2p or 2k. Strategy: Besides doing unsafe strings that Volcanic Viper will punish, try to avoid getting inside his sweep range as well. Sol's 2d can shut down some of your pressure tools. Char specific details: Sol has a weird air hitbox, so you have to a be a little more precise when doing the 5HS frc running 5HS frc combo as well as other air combos.

If your opponent has a habit of reversalling HS Fujin, you can grab him out of it if you see it coming/time it right.

Yeah, I know. That's why I was asking Chojin why he said only in the corner is it not safe against reversal riot stomp, even though a mashed out reversal GV will always be more damaging than a CH riot stomp in the corner (aka you fly backward, cannot be comboed) Also, I still do bazooka all the time against Sol, in fact I do bazooka against everyone except Baiken. Why? Because your opponent must reversal GV/Riot/VV in order to beat your meaty oki. The Risk vs. Reward is generally not good enough in Sol's favor to try to reversal when he's got a big fuggin missile ready to combo him if he screws up. EDIT: And yes, 2HS is nothing near as good as 5k. 2HS is only good as a prediction anti air, and even then the angle of it won't always hit your opponent. 5k is fastest normal in the game, great anti air, and leads to CL sidewinder comboes (even on a non-CH). 2HS is only comboable when the opponent is basically on the ground.

Yeah I see what you're saying now. Until now I was actually under the impression VV was active on frame 1, but looking at the frame data I see you're right. Indeed, a meaty 5p timed near the end of its 4 active frames will recover faster than basically any reversal an opponent will throw out. The only disagreement I still have is you say: "5-hit lvl 3 bazooka in the corner since Sol can reversal riot stomp over the bazooka and you'll still be in recovery. So... 5P is still the safer option here." But keep in mind reversal GV will escape missiles at all points on the screen, and when mashed out for the clean hit will lead to more damaging combos. CH reversal riot stomp in the corner won't actually lead to any followup Im pretty sure, so I guess I don't get the point of using it over GV anywhere.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Obviously the range of 5p is less than bazooka for oki, so what makes 5p safer than bazooka? The only way it's safer is because it recovers faster, but assuming you are timing a meaty 5p or meaty bazooka (such that it hits first frame of opponent get-up) than a reversal GV/VV/Super (anything with some kind of invuln on frame 1) will hit you regardless if youre doing 5p or bazooka. Again, Riot stomp will ONLY work if they reversal it even in the corner, so as long as you time your wakeup stuff you shouldnt really need to worry too much. Well, maybe I can say this just because I play against a good Sol player more than anything else, but you can definitely be able to predict to a degree when the opponent will jump in. We've all said it before, RK's anti airs are terrible. Assuming your opponent knows this and say they have as good a jump-in as Sol's j.HS, then you can be pretty sure they will try to whore it out because it's USUALLY safe. However, a quick eye with anticipatory jump as well as IBing will net an air throw. Another good example of this: If you've played against Axl you've probably seen 2HS>6HS as a pretty common blockstring/combo. If you block both bits of 2HS, then your immediate thought should be to jump and IB the 6HS. Granted there are other variations of this blockstring (2HS>Green projectile thing) as long as you are LOOKING for the jump-in as one of your opponent's potential options, then forward jump>IB>air throw should be in your mind. The worst thing that could happen is you jump and your opponent didn't jump, in which case you're usually too far away for them to hit you, and if they are just flicker FD/air backdash/double jump to get safely away.

50% tension or not, you should be using bazooka unless you don't have bar IMO. First of all, being scared of reversal supers should never stop you from using meaty attacks, because they just wont come out as long as you time it right. Second, RCing VV into combo is more damaging than whatever that wakeup super is, so just keep that in mind. I don't think there are any sol's that try to reversal Riot Stomp, if anything be worried about VV or grand viper. Also, the *best* way to beat a predicted jumpin j.HS from sol is jump, IB both hits (or just the second one) and airthrow. and in terms of air-to-air, I usually do j.S just because the CH properties are pretty absurd. J.HS's is only useful if theyre in the corner in most cases.

So I'm wondering why the recent translations for Robo-Ky list one of his bad matchups as Sol, while here it says it's 50-50. I used to hate the matchup, but I sorta feel like it's kinda even now. you can delay wakeup on Sol's best oki, FRC gunflame. only problem is Sol's j.HS as a jumpin and 5k when RK is falling. Overall I think it's kinda even. Also what makes the Zappa matchup so bad?

I'm sure 5p on fire will connect into 5d, but I don't think CH 5p non fire does.