JackG

No, I'm almost certain you're left in too much blockstun to act before the ending overhead hit. Even then, the damage you get off of the counterhit you get after the super will be much better than off of a super counter (costs too much tension for what little it does) or a 6d (which prorates anyways)

TAGER Matchup Statistics Japanese Ranking: [finput][/finput] yet Personally: 5.5-4.5 Punishes: Air- One way Tager can get in is through jumping at you, usually forcing your guard with j.b>j.c land. Luckily Hakumen has multiple great anti airs, so punish his jump on reaction with 2c (if he superjumps) or usually 6a assuming he's closer to the ground. You can punish with 5d/6d but if he empty jumps he can 360/720 you for punish, so might as well take the safer damage through 6a or 2c. Beware if he jumps and immediately does j.c, it gives him horizontal momentum, causing him to go over you and cause 6a to whiff. Just make sure you keep track of that. Ground- In terms of getting in, Tager has B sledge, 5d, 2d, or walking forward. His gameplan will usually consist of forcing you to guard a 5d, giving him a much easier time to get in on you after that. B sledge and 2d are safe on block (+2 and -1 respectively) while 5d can cancel into A or B sledge so it is safe as well. So all of his ways in are fairly safe, they're all fairly telegraphed and slow to start so you can 5d, 2d, or 6d on reaction (5d preferred.) Against sledge, Tager can hold it and make you miss your counter, so punishing sledge with 5b is usually in your best interest. Mashing on 2d will catch Tager's pressure after he pressures A or B sledge, but he can Buster so it's not usually in your best interest to do that. Tager's super where he spins and ends in the overhead at the end is super easily punishable, and not only that but it usually sucks you in next to him (assuming he's magnetized.) Take your choice of 6c CH or 5c CH into whatever (usually 5c> 623a~a> jc falling j.C> etc.) Counters: Anti-airing: 6a if he's up in your face, 2c if he's higher up on the screen. TK j.214b if he is over you and does j.2c. Airthrow him when he starts doing jump in blocks. Apparently Tager's j.b and j.c tend to clash with 6a for some reason, so watch out for that as well. Zoning: Space with max range 3c and 6c. While both are fairly unsafe on block, Tager doesn't have much to punish you with at max range. Even if Tager IB's 6c and throws his Spark projectile Hakumen will be able to block. 6c outranges most of Tager's normals and is usually faster as well, and even catches his jumps most of the time since he's so fat. If you're closer up, use 5b, because while most characters can crouch Hakumen's 5b Tager cannot. Their game plan: Force you to guard to magnetize you, then get up in your face and mix you up with Tager buster or 5a into pressure resets, heat/2c to catch jumps, etc. Strategy: Space Tager and fight him at an optimal range for you, for me it's where I can land max range 6c and 3c. This is the only fight where H-man is the faster character, so you can really determine the pace of the fight. Stall when you need stars, always keep an eye on Tager's projectile bar gauge and know when you need to bait it. I generally roll out 632146 when I'm zoning with 6c and hit confirm into super if I got it and he gets hit. Tager doesn't really have any good anti airs (except for a preemptive 2c) so feel free to jump in on him and force his guard with j.b and j.c all day (regularly or crossup!) Tager's best option when you IAD or jump at him is to backdash your jump in and punish the recovery with a buster. Tager's backdash is 23 frames long, and only 4 are vulnerable, so time your jump in's accordingly. I usually find jumping and hitting j.a will stuff most of Tager's options off of a frame trap (Buster, heat, 2c) and the punishes he gets on you with 5a is pretty negligible. Poor Hakumen's backdash has ZERO invincibility frames, so trying to backdash Tager's frame trap mixup usually isn't the best since you'll always get hit out of it (unless of course he goes for a throw.) Char specific details: Unlike Potemkin, Tager does not have a double jump, period. That means if he's jumping at you, he can't double jump to bait anti airs and land for a punish. Hakumen's 5b will hit Tager on standing or crouching, so whore it out! Hakumen's j.b and j.c will both cross up Tager if done correctly Will update with more info based on what's found out and how people respond.

So, it seems that over a single weekend Carl has gone from "God fucking awful" to "holy shit I'm actually scared of him now". With DIO and the red Carl (didn't see a name on him) perfecting the air throw unblockable loops (both execution wise and set-up wise) netting somewhere between 7k-12k damage if done correctly. I predict A tier for this man by the end of the month, discuss.

What kind of egotistical bastard quotes himself in his own signature? You don't want to learn from this guy Sudai. Plus he steals socks

Silly Kyle, there's no HS in this game

please PLEASE someone give me an in-depth guide to beating this guy. 5-5 my ass, he can slidehead 2d on reaction, and trying to backdash it all the time causes me to overheat more than a Slash RK. It's damn near impossible to get tension, and even when you do your shit gets flicked anyways. I only like the matchup when I can set up level 3 missile oki, AKA never. Advice plz.

Many thanks for the frame data. I noticed that 6d,2d, and j.d all have a 1 frame startup, so I guess they aren't technically active on the first frame then?

As Jais said, the multiple hit super is indeed super counter punishable quite easily on reaction (rub it out during the super freeze) However, she can just jump out so it's not really in your best interest. As for insight on the match, it's quite a pain I can agree with you there. The clock is your enemy, as in general I get to actually connect with v-13 in my range an average of maybe 2 or 3 times each match. That being said, the easiest way to lose this match is to get impatient and IAD j.C'ing to close the gap. v-13 can easily and reliably anti air you every time with a drive and juggle for an easy 2.5-3k damage. This matchup is especially tricky for H-man because his dash is a non jump cancellable ground hop, meaning he can't running jump + barrier as a means to get in. jumping forward gives very little horizontal movement, but it's a lot better than doing an unsafe IAD and getting counterhit. So, things don't look that good. Here's a few things you need to consider when fighting her: a) In general you'll want to advance by doing a single dash hop (or just walk forward if you're really scared) or jumping/double jumping forward. either way you're not getting very far, but you're making v-13 commit to either doing air pressure or ground pressure to keep you away. In my experience it's a lot easier to advance on the ground, because v-13 is going to be fearing IAD j.C counterhit if she's throwing out moves to beat ground movement. b) she will pretty much ALWAYS backdash when you get remotely close to her. You're movement sucks, and her backdash is the best in the game in terms of speed and distance. Push her towards a corner so she can't backdash anymore. Keep assuming she trying to find a way out, so look for her command dash (teleport) to get out or sj IAD. c) If you get the health advantage, let her come to you. If you keep across the screen, her drive moves won't get you and you force her to move in. From mid screen her mixup isn't that amazing, so feel validated turtling mid screen and IBing her swords so long as you have a health advantage. It's much easier to force her to come to you than vice-versa. d) If there's one good thing about this matchup, its' that most of v-13's attacks (most notably her multi hit sword super) hit lots of times. This is great for the H-man, as you can nonchalantly tap back during these high-hit pressure moves and get TONS of meter. Every time I see v-13 do the many sword super, I just jump and tap back. When you're in the air, you can't eat mixup so long as you're either IBing, Barriering, or both when she runs up, plus you get tons of bar. That being said, I spend a lot of matches sitting with full bar vying to find a way in. This is one matchup where I feel it's usually a good idea to throw a few stars for the sake of closing the gap, primarily through 623A (the semi-invincible dash.) If you've got the tension to spare, might as well use it to get in. e) Instinctively you'll want to roll forward after v-13's knockdown combos. I can pretty much say that you should never do this unless she's in the air, as a 5D as you roll will easily pick you up for another big combos into knockdown. Additionally, if you get knocked down and v-13 does the multi hit super, you'll get hit for rolling as well. Best bet is to just neutral tech as soon as you can and patiently block it out. All in all, I hate the matchup. I used to get impatient and try to IAD in to close the gap but I got counterhit 90% of the time, putting me in a bad situation. best advice is just to play it safe and patiently. At least this is my take on the matchup.

Can anyone explain how his super counter 236236D works? At times it seems like an unblockable on successful counter, but at the same token I HAVE seen it blocked before.

I looks like on whiff one of her quick aerials (perhaps j.a, or j.b) she can air dash cancel. It looked on the live stream like the player was TKing this move and then doing a super low airdash very quickly off the ground as oki. Can anyone confirm that?

my thoughts exactly. Want to see some vids, anybody got some?

So I'm probably gonna play Kirei, but I couldn't find any combos, even bnbs, here on Dustloop. Anyone know a source on combos for him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYgatbfb7Uk superjump straight up j.2HS for sweet Shoryu bait and punish

This means that you're hitting Hardslash to early out of the Horsie, because when you hit 3 buttons at the same time (and you aren't roman or false roman cancelling something) it take's the input in the priority of: P>K>S>H (unless you are trying to throw, and if that's the case you will get a throw.) So it sounds like you are hitting the first HS before the Horse fully recovers and then hitting KSH not cancelling anything, so it will give you 5k. Connecting Horse>5h frc is a bit more difficult than 2s>5h because the horsie combo is a link. Not only that, but you have almost zero time to get 5h in before your opponent hits the ground, which results in OTG. Not practice doing it a little bit later if you are getting K, and earlier if you're getting HS frc but on an OTG opponent. Practice on lightweights like May and Baiken because they're a bit easier to hit this on than say, Potemkin.

or HOS, or Venom, or Axl, or Robo.... You see where I'm going with this? Basically EVERYONE (cept usually Buri and Chipp, but even they have their moments) can deal stupid damage in this game (I define "stupid" as >=60%.) However, you say mixup pales in comparison to big damage, but look at S-tier characters, Slayer Testament and Eddie. Sure they all do big damage (Like I said basically everyone in this game does) but you'll notice these characters all have <20 frame hard to see overheads, all very comboable. Not only that, but their mixup outside of that is also pretty absurd. Sure Eddie is the best due to his damage and unblockables that lead into more damage, but the amount of mixup you get with little Eddie is obscene when you compare that to most characters. Hell even Potemkin wouldn't be as obscene if he didn't have amazing mixup coupled with amazing damage. Essentially, I'm saying you need a good combination of both mixup and damage to really succeed overall. You bring up Milla going down 2 tier spots (and you'll find a lot of people who disagree with that) as a sign that mixup isn't as important as damage. However, characters like Millia, Chip, and I-no's great mixup don't really account for the lack of damage they deal and the more damage they receive. All in all, mixup is really quite important, but you'll notice that the best characters in the game have big damage as well as great mixup.

Usually straight up blocking a burst pushes you back too far/has too much blockstun to do too much in the ways of punishing. However, Instant blocking bursts (holding back 8 frames or less before the active frames of the burst) pushes you back not as far and has less blockstun, giving you ample time to do something like 5p>c.S> air combo of choice. Using 5HS frc is usually a waste of tension when you have the option of getting a c.S instead ( of course if the extra damage will kill or you need to drain your tension to get to level 2 missiles, then go right ahead.) And Vedasisme, overall you seemed to get the basics down (pressuring with 5k/5p/bazooka) but as others said, you should hit confirm a 5HS frc off of a connected Horsie. On that note, I would never use level 1 or 2 Horsie for pretty much any circumstance (doesn't really do anything productive unless its lv. 3 and the other levels are just flat out too slow). Also, if you connect with 5p or 5k, I normally see you follow with c.S > f.S > mat when in most cases when you're closer up you should go for c.S >2s> mat. Also, as Robo your best oki/mixup setup is getting level 3 bazooka on your opponents wakeup, followed by you running in and jumping while the missile is being blocked. From that you can either land and do a low (land V 5k>c.S>2s>mat into more oki) or an airdash low to the ground for a high mixup ( airdash > j.S>j.HS>land>c.S>2s>mat for more oki). It's really hard to see coming, and if you connect you get damage, knockdown for more mixup and bar. Other than that just work on your defense a little bit and you should be good.

I got to play this matchup a decent amount at SB3 and I will give my two cents on it. At the start of the round (and basically throughout the match in general) His pokes are faster and longer range then yours. That being the case, you're probably going to want to start the round blocking (if he opens with 2s/2hs,both 6 frame startup low profile moves, it will beat your standard openers like f.S, plus if you jump towards him he will recover in time to 6p you). And in fact, you're going to spend a majority of the round blocking, which kind of sucks because he's got that whole extra chip damage going for him. When you are in neutral situations (both of you are across the screen, zoning each other) he will be doing quick 2 ball formations most likely and slowly sending them your way. You will be laying mats when applicable and either avoiding the balls (2k'ing under them, 6Hing them, 6p sometimes but the recovery is so long they can do a charged HS ball sent your way on reaction to that) or IBing the bare minimum you need to. In general, unless you get a knockdown early somehow, you won't try to apply a whole lot of pressure to Venom because he's got the range and speed on his normals to beat your standard zoning/poking normals such as f.S and 2k. Once you hit 50% you can start fighting back, doing close to the ground TK missiles, since Venom isn't generally fast/small enough to avoid them if you do it properly. However keep in mind if he has a ball out away from your split missiles, he'll generally teleport to it to get away. As someone already mentioned, it's not really worth trying to do level 2 missiles spam as counter pressure because you'll have each missile (10% tension) trade with each ball which really doesn't get you anywhere. Most likely Venom will be getting the first knockdown/initiating the first pressure string, and while Venom has arguably the best pressure in the game, you can really turn that against him by IBing as much as possible. It's REALLY easy to get half a bar real fast if you can block his jump in mixup because c.S will hit 3 times, 2H hits twice, and even if your guard gauge is being cranked, you will be getting the bar you need to get your level 3 missile spam going. I'm not saying willingly subject yourself to Venom pressure all day for the sake of bar (because his chip damage WILL kill you if you let it) but let him blow his tension keeping you in the corner, get as much tension as you safely can, and then Superjump out when you find a chance. Airdash away, send some level 3 missiles down to cover your descent, and gain ground accordingly. FD if you are close to him as obviously his 6p will wreck your shit. On a side note, delay wakeup is great against Dark Angel. Luckily his health kind of sucks as well as a lack of defensive options makes him very susceptible to your bazooka pressure whenever you can get it. Venom's tall standing hitbox makes him a great target for fuzzy guards, so give those a try during your jump ins. Oh and don't try to anti air with 2H, that moves only really good in the PO and MA matchup. That's all for now.

Something I've found out that seems decently useful: on most of the cast on most parts of the screen when you run up and do 5k as oki, you can do 5k>DP super or even 5k>5k>DP super in most cases. While this is kind of a waste of tension on a lot of the cast, I found you can get an otg robo dash after the super, getting your bar (plus more!) back. When charging the taunt, simply FD if you see the opponent coming in, Simple as that And Kyle, the window is small, but it isn't THAT small that you have to split up the input. Personally I do, because why not? you have tons of time after 236S that you're not doing anything and might as well buffer the first 6 in.

wait, you can do a move on reaction to BBU, a 10 frame startup?

I don't know how her abare is "among the worst". If you're clever off of most random hits you can get good damage and knockdown via relaunch shenanigans.

Hey guys, I don't know if you guys are familiar with SE-R but in 2 weeks from this weekend, and for those that don't know it's basically just a whole weekend of nothing but gear on tons of setups, playing mad casuals with peeps from all around the U.S. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4878 - thread I was just seeing if anyone here was planning on attending, repping the good Robot with me. There's a same character 3v3 tournament, so the more of you guys who can go the better ^_^ Believe me, it's awesome

Nah I didn't link that as a good example of mixup, just a combo off of that you would probably not see off of other Eddie players in the same situation. The mixup part probably should have been earlier in my post

I dunno, how many Eddies do you see pull off 100% combos on PO on a hit in a real match? How many times do you see cool 1-hit shadow gallery loops? Multiple IAD combos with little eddie-P? Have you EVER seen an Eddie use that sword super in a match? In my opinion, this is the best type of combo video you can have: practical stuff that is also new and creative; by in-large not used because: a) People that play Eddie don't bother learning the cool character specific combos (aka JO) b) Very Situational (ok you probably won't land 5d midscreen without little eddie out, but if you ever did there's your best option right there!) You say this is "regular, boring Eddie" combo stuff but Latiff seems to turn every match of him into a personal combo video (see :28 for a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmPbXF9nO34) However, do you see other Eddie's do this? Hell no, they stick with their grounded 5k 6k or command throw mixup. Until you consistently see Eddies (and I include Japanese Eddies in this) pull off this kind of stuff, then I definitely do not think you have a right to say this is run of the mill combo material. Again I think he did an excellent job. The editing was great, although I feel like the lyrics kind of took away from the combos. Are you trying to display your combos or sell the song?

Amazing, top notch combos. 100% on PO? Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn I was personally kinda wishing for a combo reminiscent of your first round victory against ElvenShadow at Evo, but I can't complain with what you got. Amazing editing as well, props to Bahamutt for that one.