JinSaotome

You want to wait a tick before comboing into 623D. You want them to be as high (vertically) as possible before it connects so that when you recover they're higher up in the air (and therefore can't ground tech)

Oh, really? thats pretty cool then, actually. I don't know Johnny too well, but I recall that being one of our local Johnny's gripes loooong ago. Speaking of, allowing Johnny to end his combos after gettnig a recoin would be nice, so that once you land that first combo with MF2, you can consistently level 2/3 Mist Cancel and keep up the pressure after each combo. That sounds like something that would strengthen his midscreen game (and make his already good corner game better)

On the topic of fixing Johnny, while this isn't ultra critical compared to some of the other fixes he needs, they should make returns on Lvl 3 Mist Finer hit better than level 2 Mist Finer's returns on hit. It's kind of silly to accidentally hit level 3 some how, then when you get ready for that sweet 50% damage combo oh woops, I have the wrong mist finer! *does 30%* EDIT: Maybe give level 3 mist finer single hit + floor slide so you can do corner comos like K S HS xx Lvl 3 mist finer -> 6HS xx Coin xx Lvl 2 Mist Finer -> Air combo

It gives the move increased blockstun and hitstun, allowing for more time to do mixup/combo options of choice. edit: fuck, beaten

Don't forget that the magnetism pull is even stronger now than in CS

Bang is weak in the AA department without meter, so if you get him on the defensive, terrorize him with j.C and [w]j.B This matchup is probably in Bang's favor. Both characters have strong offense and terrible defense, but Bang has the advantage of being able to force you on the defensive much much easier with D Nails. EDIT: Oh yeah, and if he tries to get smug with 2D when you do [w]5C j.B, land and [w]5A into combo.

Yeah, I believe it was confirmed for 12/9 (in Japan, at least.)

Is there any reason for this? I've never heard anything like that. :o

Hey, I wanted to ask a question since its a semi related. I've been seeing JP players do mid-combo purple throws, and then either getting some sweet extra damage if it lands, or (more likely) being able to hit/force a guard with meaty things like Haz j.4D off of j.C x 5 dj B+C, Bang D Nails after j.A dj Airthrow, etc, etc... is this a legitimate strategy, or are those other guys just getting trolled?

Just a q about that last combo, when you do j.DA, is that human j.A? And if so, is j.B too slow there?

well, if you start blocking, you submit yourself to un-wolf/instant j.B mixups (which hurt just as bad) I'm not saying that using 5A to stop his offense is a bad idea, but if you keep doing it, you eat a BC combo, and if you don't you're giving him a window to mix you up for damage anyway, so its a risky scenario. :3

It's probably doing around 4k,I would estimate I didn't take the time to add up the whole thing, but factoring in proration, I'd say you're looking around 4k range. Regardless, even eating 2k meterless combos for free is foolhardy if you just keep doing it. X:

Yes No. with meter, Valk can do beast cannon x 3 air dash j.b dj.b dj.C super, and that will take out a good chunk of life ;X

2D Bandit revolver RC CLSW also works as a grounded combo. Just make sure you RC with P+S+HS or else the input buffer will make you do bandit revolver RC bandit revolver

yeah, Valk's 6B/6C are both pretty slow, just don't poke him out of it because they have great attributes and murder you on FC Make sure to reversal or backdash. Said overheads are also positive on block, so if you don't react and just block it, don't poke out again because he'll just 2C or whatever into death. Valk can also do [w]C torwards you to do a low to the ground [w]j.B overhead, or go low with [w]5A

his 6A and 2C are both pretty good. Also, 2C will fuck you up on CHs and corner hits. ;X

Edit: daaaaaaaamn nigga I'm late to the party

S tier - playing GG instead A tier - playing SSF4 instead B tier - playing Valkenhayn C tier - playing Bang/Haz v:v:v

I think Zong's post invalidates this whole thread more than Spirit Juice's does. ;_;

I'm the local Haz player :P (at least til Valk comes out :3) no one is ever going to Jayoku you as soon as you run up, you should be doing it specifically off of certain IBs and (the opponent's) shitty mixup attempts. And when they "just punch and block," they are giving you a free attempt to jump and zip out or even start your own offense since Haz has great normals anyway. The thing about Jayoku that's so great is as soon as you get 50%, pretty much every character in the game has to respect you when trying to rush you down or mix you up.Add on to the fact that you can combo with it which leads to some pretty good damage (not as godly as FC though), and the fact that performing the combo gets you all that meter back anyway, I'd say its definitely in the top 3~4 After hearing what people are saying about Hotaru though, I'd concede it's probably better than Jayoku. Possibly Ragna 2C as well (I don't know shit about Carl, so idk about j.B :X)

This, and you can do double jayoku from midscreen as long as you started with 70ish meter (Jyakou meter gain is absurd) Really, even factoring in meter req, Jayoku is the best in the game. as soon as Haz gets 50 meter you pretty much can not under any circumstance attack him, which lets him zone you for free, and if you try to get gutsy you eat shit and die anyway then he gets all his meter back to do it again.

give it time dude, Valk is still only a couple days old. You could in theory give him a tier spot, but any new discoveries will radically shift it since so little is known. Give players a couple months to play with him in order to get some info. My personal guess is mid tier. His mobility, mix up, and damage are all pretty solid, but his defensive tools and stats (life, primers, etc) are really awful. This, combined with high tier characters having better ways to put him on defense than he has against top tiers, puts him in a sticky position. I foresee Bang in particular being awful due to D Nails being an instant "I'm in control now" button. Again though, thats jsut ~speculation~ so take it with a pound of salt. EDIT: oh yeah, and no, Wolf mode only has 4 normals (A, B, j.A, j.B), 3 specials(236 A/B/D), and a dashy thing ([w]C)

he did except it's kind of not bait...? I don't even know Damn, loerg, you should take TB's advice on inside jokes

;_;

So guys how about that Valkenhype. Definitely maining him. Get ready you guys at Furok's! :B