Shinkada
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Everything posted by Shinkada
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Telling him his ideas are consistantly bad = aligning? His ideas suck, I'm just saying it in a nice way because I sympathise with people who are sick of the 'oki + positioning > reflexes and mindgames' mentality. Sadly I'm all out of ideas on how to make you realize you're an asshole, if you didn't gather it from what you just typed then there's clearly no chance.
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Keep in mind if I suggest a change for Noel it's just because I want her to be more unique, not necessarily good. I'm bias because she'd need a complete overhaul for me to even think of subbing her so don't take anything I say about her too seriously, in her current state she's just about the last character I'd ever use seriously because I don't like characters who aren't ridiculously unique and gimmicky.
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I think most people hate on you because you throw out a lot of completely game-changing design ideas without thinking about them too much. Don't get me wrong, some of them are interesting at the least, and not all of them are bad. I mean, I am the same guy who said GG would benefit from the complete removal of mixups. And even I don't ENTIRELY believe that. It MIGHT but I'm not sure, it'd certainly have pros and cons. Same with your ideas. Extra proration in corners? Eh. It would improve a couple of things but it would likely end up more detrimental than helpful. Hakumen, Lambda, Tsubaki, Jin and Rachel would all be crippled by that, and they really don't need to be crippled. Can't remember any of your other big ideas but they follow the same vein. Interesting, and definitely unique, but not necessarily good.
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Yeah, but never very well. They were sort of that 'threat of them being used more than them actually being used' level. If they actually become useful to the point of, say, Bang's guard points, then she'll at least be fun to watch. Maybe even fun to play. ;D
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Some of those change goals seem... Um... Either questionable or unmet. Is this their goals for the characters since CS1 or sincs Loketest 4? I hope they meet Noel's goal though. I love pistols characters but Noel has always just been so insufferably boring because she doesn't really have anything special about her. Her Drive specializing more in dodging moves could finally add some much-needed flavour.
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Gunna reply to this before Blade makes people who disagree with other people look bad. Again. In a nutshell; not everyone thinks spacing and oki should be the end-all game decider.
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Now proceeding to ignore everything Cake ever says. re: AXIS, that only works if they predict the roll. If they're close enough to go for a 2A as soon as you roll then they're probably close enough for you to grab/super/dp them as they mash. Human reaction time is near half a second? Certainly not fast enough to outright react to a roll, they need to have somewhat expected it too. Roll is the same as everything else in this game, if you just throw it out a high-level player will see it coming a mile away and screw you up for it. Again, it's only when you add in all the other options that roll becomes a very viable if sometimes risky option. And I just disagree that you never see rolls in pro vids, it's the most common reaction to being grounded, even if it is much less common when being cornered. And again, while it can assist (very riskily) in getting out of the corner, its main use is not getting oki'd into the corner in the first place. C'mon man, don't take Cake's bait into flaming me, the one time I take on a tourneyfag opinion and say "huge corner damage is okay" no less. EDIT: lol. Seriously, just lol. I should've known better than to say huge corner damage is okay, ArcSys inevitably heard me and will now proceed to nerf every defensive option.
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Rolling while you're actually IN the corner will get you killed if they predict it. It's pretty easy to read when someone is anticipating a roll, too. With good timing a roll can help get out of the corner, but more importantly it dramatically helps in not getting into the corner in the first place. No one of those tricks will get you out of the corner guaranteed but you have roughly twice as many options to help you get out/not get there in the first place than in GG, which leads to way less cases of near-guaranteed game over. I don't think it's stupid easy but I think that if you utilize everything at your disposal then you have a good shot at doing it, and a much fairer shot than GG. Why am I even telling you this? You're good and actually like BB, it's Cake who's shitting me off by reverting his 'BB sucks you're all scrubs' attitude just to keep up his 'everything you say is wrong because I'm such a goddamn millionaire' approach.
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You're seriously going to argue that BB isn't easy to get out of the corner in? When you spend the other 23 hours of the day with the rest of the tears parade whining about how scrubby BB is because okizeme and space control aren't king? You're just trying to start pointless shit because you don't like me, live free and die.
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I hate corner rape too but I think that's just bad memories from GG. Between IBing, tech rolling, widescreen, and the stuff we already know and love like wakeup supers, wakeup grabs, anything character specific (DPs), dead angles (counter assault is the BB term, iirc?) and bursts, you really do have to be either hopeless or outclassed to wind up in the corner for any longer than a moment. I dunno if I'd agree with that in GG but I certainly do in BB. Plus there's still a few characters with solid midscreen, eg Tager and Mu, and more that we're not sure on yet (like Rachel who as far as I've seen and heard, even her miserable-but-dedicated userbase hasn't managed to dream up any good potential bnbs). I was admittedly worried about that at first but I think it'll actually turn out fine. The solution to corner rape is to stay out of the corner, and in BB that's very viable.
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Except for that post. I always hated how overwhelmingly advantageous okizeme and corner pressure were in GG. Okizeme is useful in BB but, as you said, only in small ways. It is possible to hit people out of tech rolls, it's just really freaking hard, as (imo) it should be. What I'm trying to say is that you find BB's oki too useless, but there's also a lot of people who consider GG's too useful. No snowballing isn't bad game design, it's game design choice. I understand the point that make mistake = get punished and that's a good thing, but when the 'mistake' is a mixup that's physically impossible to react to on reflex and it essentially loses you the match, well, I'd consider that bad game design too. :I
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I hadn't thought of that when I read the meter penalty thing. First thing I'd thought of was Litchi's super oki, that they were trying to balance her stupidlong combos without changing them, but this poses a serious problem for Jin and, worse still, Hakumen. Maybe we'll see both of them hoarding meter for a single huge combo more often now? Depending on the severity of the penalty.
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First of all thank you for not being a total douchebag like some people. For the record, I definitely do not think I know more than you, doubly so about Jin. The main changes that made me think Jin is/will be high tier are: -2C>5C possible (can't input 2C twice), from the first loctest. This allowed for a 4k combo which is very high for a first-try combo in CS2 where, as I've said before, average damage seems to be ~3.2k for fast melee-ers. If he keeps damage similar to CS1 when everyone else's damage has gone down so much he'll be scary. -5D start up faster but shorter freeze time, can combo from 5C, second loctest. I don't know much about Jin's combos but several people commented on this being a very strong change, in regards to being able to freeze standing opponents very easily. (Now that I'm looking closely I think this was actually reversed in Loctest 3, derp) -I just now remembered that Loctest 4 gave everyone an unblockable 5B or 5C and thus Jin's very strong air-unblockable 5C in the 3rd Loctest is moot. Though that's a pretty damn good move to have air unblockable. So yes in retrospect I relied on other people saying Jin was overpowered far too much (Hecatom made a good point there). 5C to 5D still seems like a very nice change, and I retain my point that he's been buffed (if not as much as I originally thought) where others around him have received nerfs, but "crash course for top tier" was incorrect of me. I'd still guess high-ish tier but I don't like to guess shoddy tier placements like that unless it seems outright top tier. So tl;dr: No, I didn't look as deeply into the loctest changes as I should have, and I went on the words of commenters far too much, and I apologize for that. Thanks for making me analyze it a bit more, too, not really worried about Jin now. See what happens when people are reasonable? So are the people you other guys are jerkwads to. Slayer? I WISH I could forget him, those FB combos still keep me awake at night. EDIT: Re: Tager is finally good. That's kind of a scary thought. The better SoCal players (lol obvious shoutout) already manage to make Tager look so damn awesome even though I know perfectly well he's crappy, hopefully him being good won't mean the end of stupid ridiculous and awesome gimmicks.
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:3
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This intrigues me.
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Which changes do you mean? The only change for Tager that struck me as potentially stupidly good was the increased magnetism and I never found any vids showing it off.
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I wouldn't care if that Tetsu guy mentioned earlier suddenly made an account just to argue with me. Jin was in a fairly good place balance-wise, and he's been getting buffs where everyone else has been getting nerfs. And again, definitely not the first person to suggest Jin is heading on a crash course to top tier, I don't see any of those guys getting chewed out about it. Oh, but Stunedge disagreed with me and I had the nerve to disagree back. Watch the hell out. Speaking of which how come other people can say shit like "this game is becoming fucking hilarious god arcsys are such magnificent trolls <3" and not get berated? It has the same affect as what I said but somehow just flies under the radar?
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Based on all the previous loctest data and the threads created with them. Go back and look. Jin's gotten tons of buffs, and I'm definitely not the first person to point it out.
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Stunedge, Jin has been getting steady buffs since the first loctest where nearly everyone else has been getting nerfs. It's pretty unanimous that, in its current state, he's a shoe-in for at LEAST high A-Tier. Some guy getting a 40 win streak (and I assume there are more high-level players than just him, given that it's the final loctest and it's going for a comparatively long time) is just a demonstration of how strong he likely is. Hecatom, 15 seconds is a long-ass time. It's not /too/ bad for anime-style fighting game regulars but have you ever talked to someone outside the loop (lol puns) about it? They lose the flow, it interrupts the action, may as well be a 15 second loading screen. It's easy to lose focus but outsiders (see: people who have never heard of Dustloop) find that important, and those outsiders, no matter how much everyone here seems to hate them, could be good future players if they didn't find Litchi's coffee breaks so action-breaking. Look at Dacidbro, one of the best US BB players, and he agrees that the lulls in the action are terrible; judging from some of the things he's said I'd say he was very nearly one of those people who stopped playing for reasons the regulars have just gotten used to. Even for doujin fighter regulars, 15 seconds is still long. I can't think of much short of infinites from broken games that go on that long. Longest combos in GG were around 5 seconds. Change a char change them all? That's true, but they seem to be aiming for 3-3.5k bnbs for most of the cast. Less than half is a bit much. But they seem to be taking that 'miserable damage midscreen super damage in corner' approach for Bang too, and I really can't say I like it. And no it's not my first fighting game (if that's what you mean), GG was. Though to be fair it is my first time actually tracking a fighting game's loctest, so maybe I am overreacting or it'll change dramatically for the better at launch. With any luck I'm overreacting, really do hope that because BB has so much promise.
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It's not as fast as GG but it's still close. Certainly faster than the majority. Dacid; yes, you are right there. Well with the first bit anyway, I really do think Hazama was fine. At least he was when his average damage was still in the very low 2k's, it started getting a bit nuts when 3k bnbs started popping up.
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When you put it that way it sounds really good. I hope you're right about it. Honestly the 7.2kFC pissed me off because it was so stupidly strong, I'm all for punishing people for falling for what is effectively a spacing tool (as opposed to reliable combo-starter) but 5-5.5k would've been just fine. 7.2? Ridiculous. So imo Mu is doing well. And Pulsr, you're seriously switching to Platinum? That's sad, you're the best Mu there is. :c You'll just have to step up your game, Ve. ;3
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God damnit Arcsys. Is it just me or has the game been getting progressively less balanced since the first loketest? Or maybe the second. Those two fixed just about everything I had beef with. Maybe there's something I'm missing from not seeing it in action, but I can't help but feel they are - as usual - giving into the higher tiers whining about having to learn new tricks instead of just stupidhuge combos/5A/instakill curse. Look at Litchi - even if the CS combo's damage is down to, say, 3k, it's still going to net her like 60 meter and it's still going to take 15 seconds. No combo should last more than 5 seconds in a game this fast, it's ridiculous. And that's what they were heading towards. But no, can't have that, the people who care more about combo execution than competition will be sad. Meanwhile Hazama is getting nerfed for no reason. Oh I'm sorry, you're not allowed to be versatile, having tools that a skillful player can use to win is against the rules, you should be playing rock paper scissors with melee lockdown agile character types instead. Versatile does not mean overpowered and Hazama was perfectly balanced. His midscreen combos are looking to be about 1-1.5k now, that's miserable. I know he's meant to be the kind of character to force people into positions (lol) but damn. Even the low-tiers seem to be getting good changes reverted, making Tsubaki's charge faster was an awesome move and iirc they've reverted almost all of it now. And for seemingly no reason you've got Jin getting buff after buff after buff when he really only needed a small nudge. The ONLY people they seem to have done a good job on and stayed with it are Ragna and maybe Rachel, depending on how much her damage has been raised. Oh, and Mu because they basically haven't touched her but, truth be told, she needed a small couple of nerfs in the first place, so I can't really say that either. Goddamn.
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CS2 is also an arcade release. :/ The hardware he's talking about are those weird new Nesica Live things.
