tortoos

Weird, I don't have a TON of trouble doing that but I'm finding this quite difficult because slayer always wants to grab his tie and show off how swag he is. Guess it's just something I'll have to grind a lot.

Having a hard time connecting P pile after K pile in the corner. Is it just tight or something?

For someone like Sol I do CWH 5HS J.SHD J.2k J.PK jump cancel J.kd. I found that to be the easiest for me to do. When it comes to what you USE post crosswise? honestly whatever you have the most consistency with. I use H for anything but heavyweights and S for heavies. I found that it was harder for me personally to keep the combo consistent when I used K post crosswise. You can kind of use any of the three options though, Except H on fatties.

The thing you'll need to realize first is that without meter, slayers damage on most counter hits isn't that impressive. It's a bit backwards considering he's a character specifically focused on that, but thats how it is this time around. blocking sols volcanic viper and punishing in a real match would probably be similar to what you did but tagging a sweep on instead of the mappa w/o meter. Slayer sometimes has to sacrifice damage for knockdown. Realistically as far as I can tell after all this time, if it's not a counter hit from a hard slash, its late or 2s, be prepared to burn meter if you want any damage beyond just average. There are exceptions to this, like Pilebunker only near the corner, crosswise raw, but you're not going to get a lot of damage off of stuff like CH 5k or 2k in general. Slayers combos off of a low are kind of low end in terms of the damage they do, so you're not likely again to find anything beyond average damage at best without meter. Most stuff off of lows is just going into another knockdown. Reversals are harder in this game. I think it's a 2 Frame window, but the mission mode definitely makes it harder than it is in a real game because they lock your controls for so long. I can reversal online sometimes but I could never do it consistently in mission mode. That said, reversals are always a risk anyway, and slayer doesnt really have wakeup meterless reversals in general. Air combos are going to feel different, especially in slayers case with his lengthy air chains. They're not that bad and you'll get used to them with enough practice. Just keep at it. The only spot that can cause me difficulty in around 4F of lag (which is what im stuck playing in), is linking after 2k in the air. It's not that bad offline, but as has been said, 4 frames really feels like a turning point. Either way, its something you can do with practice, but i still drop my followups from it from time to time in lag. A Bit unrelated, but I personally don't think you should worry about venom zoning you that much. Venom prefers to rush down than zone, its just kind of what he does. You could get zoned sometimes sure, but it's not going to be a tremendous problem I wouldn't think. I also don't know how much meter you're given, since I found mission mode to be a bit useless as far as I can tell, but your best bet would be timing forward dashes, and if you have meter you could try dandy yrc and then a long forward dash to try and get through them or something.

We have any reports about what possible followups to CH P Pile exist if any? Is there a way to combo this meterlessly outside of the corner for example?

My issue is not the netcode, and I play a link character instead of a primarily chain based one. It's more of the fact the lobby system is the worst i've ever personally experienced. In one 30 minute play session I can get bugged or locked into a cabinet multiple times, and I know it's not just me this happens to. How glitchy/broken the lobby system is is what puts me off, not the netcode. Fixing the netcode wouldn't add new players. This game has a fairly steep learning curve, and execution isn't all there is to making a fighting game difficult to play. It's just one of many reasons guilty gear is difficult. So no, I don't think changing netcode would add new players. Being sure to keep the game balanced/updated over time and fixing the damn lobbies are probably the best way to try and bring in new players consistently.

So far, Hase doesn't feel Slayer changed too much. So we still about that low tier life?

I dunno, it's just an alternative. It seems to work more consistently for me using 5S, and the only people im going to be doing those combos on are fat characters anyway.

Well I mean,. everyones going to disagree on notation because people like it a certain way, I like the > because it clearly seperates the moves, so for instance i would write: 6HS > 214kk > 5K > J.S J.H J.D (jc) J.K J.S J.H J.D J.2K J.P J.D leaving out the > because those are air chains. That's just me. Also i'd like to point out Aperture as you're probably aware, you can use 5s instead of 5k post CWH to juggle fat people like bedman and get exactly the same damage with what appears to me to be more consistency. I drop it a lot using 5k at the jump cancel jd and almost never if i started the juggle with 5s.

Could you? I was going to look at it later on but since you took it down, I can't now. Would appreciate it. I need to know some of that stuff since I fight a bedman. Ah nevermind, didn't see you updated the video. Thanks.

I'm not the best slayer by a long shot, but here's a few things I'd point out. On wakeup, you can k dandy step yrc and then backdash against certain characters, IE: People without oppressive setplay to make it difficult to keep you locked down on your wakeup. Again this is character specific. Eternal Wings CH 6HS P Step Pile is about 180-190 damage on sol and probably is often a better reversal in most situations than dead on time. Can also do it near the corner to confirm a combo without a counter hit, but again, if you're gonna get that on wakeup, its probably gonna counter. 6HS is ridiculous. Abuse the hell out of it. It is amazing, in my opinion his best normal. Others may say 5k or 2k, but I get the most mileage out of 6HS. Use it to catch air dashes or general air movement for a 120 or so damage counter hit with just 6hs pilebunker alone. You can also do UP + IL depending on circumstances instead of PB to get a knockdown for slightly less damage. I cannot stress how much I love this normal. I use it all the time. After under pressure I especially tend to use it a lot to try and catch jump outs or mash attempts for a fat counter hit. In the corner it's even more dangerous, as it EASILY catches attempted jump outs and can go straight into pilebunker and RC for a follow up to do well over 200 damage. Don't think it needs to be said but i'll say it anyway, Under Pressure is your most commonly used dandy step follow up, especially in neutral. use it all the time then follow it up with 2k, 6hs 5k etc to force respect. Back dash cancels. Do them, they're great and easily one of the best things slayer has. Doing that can make it really difficult for characters without oppresively huge normals to punish your dandy steps your milage may vary, but my neutral game consists primarily of 5k, 2k, 6hs and under pressure. don't forget you can IAD after 5k to try and mix people up. Use helter skelter occasionally. It's not that good but beats low mash for a decent combo into knockdown. Max range sweep pickups lead to good damage and knockdown, you can go for them occasionally to try and catch people sleeping. 6P is good in the corner especially. I know I should definitely use it there more in block strings because it has a good meterless payoff if it hits. I almost never use 2HS. I don't think it's rewarding enough for what you get, but again, if you get a counter hit its pretty decent, so by all means, do what you're comfortable with. 5HS 2HS is still a pretty decent string if nothing else. meterless air confirms obviously vary, but considering what I usually end up anti airing with, 6HS > UP + IL or CH mappa > 6HS > UP + IL or PB are all solid choices. Again, sure some of this is obvious.

I don't know. Maybe. You know, I really wish we could get big bang upper back, that could really help us get some damage off of stray hits and confirm into knockdown without it being a REALLY meaty hit. or 2HS stagger or... yeah.

My friends don't believe always me, but I definitely feel the struggle at times. Slayer really needs to scare his opponents into not pressing buttons, or space himself just right so he beats their buttons out. The problem is it's really difficult to do that at all times, especially when some characters have just extremely strong neutral game that can compete with his, or flat out beat it at certain ranges. You couple this with the fact that, he honestly doesn't get as much damage as he should for some moves, has to really rely on getting gimmicky outside of the IL 50/50 with 2k, and the fact that anyone with a brain is going to burst your meaty counter hits that you worked so hard to get, and it's not really any surprise that you feel the struggle. I often wonder why a character that's designed to just wreck his opponent on counter hit has to rapid virtually everything outside of a few set starters if he wants solid damage off of it. That just makes no sense to me. I think it's normal to be frustrated by the limitations of your character at times. While I personally don't think we have it as bad as axl or potemkin, he's definitely not a great character.

Yeah see it's hard to say stuff like that. I think as long as you can go into an air combo off of it, it would be alright. The issue is if the best you're going to get is something like 6HS and another pilebunker.

Sounds like they need to bounce closer to slayer on P PB CH to allow for a c.s or 5hs pickup. I really don't see why this is hard to implement unless they are actively trying to prevent him from getting a decent combo from it mid screen, and If that is the case, what was the point of changing it at all? If you wanted these changes to be actually good, stuff like CH P PB c.s f.s air combo BNB would be possible, as well as stuff like Ch 6HS 214k-P, 214k-k 5hs air combo BNB. If you can't do those, these hardly seem like buffs that are that particularly useful to be honest. In fact, I could see that doubling as a nerf, since if ch P pile wallbounces in the corner, you wouldn't be able to go into k dandy crosswise, which could actually hurt his damage if anything. You really need to be able to get a strong combo off of this mid screen or I can't see this as being anything but a miniscule buff mid screen and a nerf in the corner.

If I had to choose between bite being 72 damage and PB having 90% Proration, I know what i'd choose. I can't complain too much about that particular part.

If it's not 90% proration K dandy pile is awful. I don't understand why you want to stop slayer from doing damage when tradtionally as a character his gimmick has been damage. Doesn't make sense to me, especially considering elphelt can already do more than he can in the first place and is a better character to boot. If you get hit with something slow like K dandy Pilebunker it was your own damn fault for getting hit by it in the first place. Again, would find slapping that with a painful 70% proration could literally double as a nerf in some cases. At least if you happen to counter hit with it now, it leads to good damage. I obviously have no way to crunch the numbers, but i'd think with something like 70% proration, even if you did something like 6HS CH KDP CWH air combo it would do hardly more (if more at all), than the current standard of 6hs CHW because of that heavy heavy proration. Can we get eventual confirmation on the proration change to k dandy (is it still awful?), as well as if combos post P pilebunker CH are possible? I'm not going to be happy without actual confirmation these are useful beneficial changes to this character. Also funny that P pile does 70 damage now when realistically it's never the optimal combo tool to begin with.

That's essentially what I was agreeing to and why I was saying I don't get thrown out of it much anymore. If you managed to hit your opponent once or twice with IL CH the mere prospect of potentially taking upwards of 50% from it scares most people to the point where they stop trying to grab it. I find for most people I play, it usually only takes one or two times of that counter hit happening before they stop going for throws on iL at all because as you said, the risk/reward is so tremendously skewed in slayer's favor it's just better to try and block it.

Oh of course you can. EW CH 6HS PB is something like 180 damage. I just like to take those risks because Dead on Time is swag as hell. I'd probably play more conserative if all my matches weren't casuals anyway. But maybe that might change if dead on time is buffed? It really just depends on how conservative you want to play, if you're a safer player, Dead on Time isn't usually the better option, it's swag as hell though and thats why I do it. I don't get thrown out of under pressure much, so either my timing is close enough to being correct, or I've sufficiently scared people against trying it. Either way, it's not too much of a problem anymore. It was a huge problem when I wasn't doing primarily 214P, that seems to be the best option for timing UP + It's Late in general and I'm rarely thrown out of it. The only time I'm counter hit on trying it is by chipp because he has a 3F normal he can mash. I'm sure the same can be said for sol so you need to be especially careful for those two. I should also point out since I'm In America, my delay is usually 3 to 5 frames, which is fairly sizeable. I imagine you need to be significantly more precise in 1F of lag, but combos are also easier, so tradeoffs?

As for timing It's Late vs throw mash, I started using visual cues myself. It's hard not to get tossed, but after you knock someone down you can get a pretty decent idea of their wakeup speed. Everyone has that get up animation right, it just comes out earlier or later. What I started doing was waiting for them to hit the ground, and as soon as i saw the character move do a 214P-S. That works for me at least but obviously its probably not as idea as grinding individual timing. It also depends on how scared your opponent is. If you can smack them for attemping throw mash with a big counter hit once or twice, they'll probably be discouraged from doing it again unless they really don't care about eating upwards of 200 damage from It's Late. One thing you could also consider trying, though it is a risk, is standing...fairly close to them on their wakeup, just outside of throw range. If you are 100% sure they'll press a button, I like to throw out Dead on Time if my opponent is cornered. Obviously it's a risk, but the reward is pretty huge, and it can really scare people into stopping mash attempts when they think they'll have a haymaker rush coming at them if they try it. This character is extremely focused on conditioning his opponents into being scared to hit buttons, and if they hit them anyway, really punishing them for them. You just kind of have to get ignorant sometimes. As for 5D, I mostly go for it off of something like a blocked 2k RC. As far as i'm aware you just kind of have to throw it out there. I've had my best success doing it off of 2k though, whether the 2k was hit or blocked.

you're probably right. I know a friend of mine plays bedman (right? how many people play that guy?) and he got a ton of more buffs than what was initially listed, I'm really kind of jealous. This character is so fun I'll keep playing regardless of what happens, but man it would be nice if it all turns out well. Again, really feeling for potemkin's struggle right now.

I really don't want easy mode, I just want any buffs changed to actually work. I don't even want this character to be top tier. If it turns out all his changes work when the smoke clears, i'll be stoked. That's all I'm asking for. Seems reasonable to me. If Hase can really make these work? I'll be happy to be proven wrong. If I really wanted to win with no effort, I would've just picked up Faust.

I figured I should be skeptical. Especially after seeing potemkins laughably bad changes. Sad to see I wasn't wrong in my initial analysis. I held out SOME hope though. There's so many ways to buff this character to make him strong and apparently none of them are being done? 6p meterless combos, p pilebunker meterless combos, 2hs causing stagger on counter hit instead of knocking them way into the air, j.h causing ground bounce on counter hit, it's late being reliably meterlessly comboable, ch 5k > 6hs > k dandy crosswise, the list goes on and on. I'll be the FIRSt to admit i'm not great at this game, but after playing slayer for even a little while it's obvious how you could make him a much better character without making him broken. Same for potemkin.

That's cool, thanks for the clarification.

Would've hoped for a buff to 6k 2s or 2h, having 2h stagger on CH instead of blow them way into the air would've been nice, but overall I don't have complaints. With the buffs to p pilebunker though, won't he still have to rapid it mid screen for combos? My biggest issue with it was that outside of the corner, it was difficult to confirm off of (which I assume this buff changes), and you needed to blow meter to do it. Slayer sucks down meter like mad to combo off of most counterhits, which seems a bit weird considering he's a character literally designed to do that very thing.