Amadeous

I'M STILL HERE BITCHES

The purpose of this thread is to explain and find new information regarding Jam's parry in Xrd. It's very different from the older games, being a true special move and having a followup, along with quite a few other notable mechanics that are very important to her gameplay, but are not inherently obvious. As Xrd Revelator is still in Japan only, this information is untested and relies on information from players in Japan. Please post any new information regarding Jam's parry that is found here. PARRYING Parrying is done by a 46 input. However, players have found that holding 4 and pressing 6 during blockstrings does not give her a parry. In which case, they have said it's better to think of it as a 546 input. So it should feel similar to AC/ACR parry. Because it is not a 546 input however, it does lead to Parries coming out even when doing dash brake, if you don't dash brake with [1] rather than [4], along with other small maneuvers. So that's something to keep in mind. FOLLOW-UP After inputting 46, Jam can press the P button to unleash a 4-Frame punch that leads to a lot of hitstun on counter hit. She can do this regardless if the parry catches an attack or not; it is also the only attack she can directly do out of a parry. Afterwards, she can either press the P or K button for different attacks. 46PP is similar to her AC 6HH, without wallstick, but giving her hard knockdown in most situations. It also will work regardless if 46P counter hits or not. 46PK is a slow upwards axe kick that launches the opponent straight upwards for combos. However, 46PK will ONLY combo if 46P was a counterhit. It's also important to note that 46P does NOT autocorrect if you parry a move that crosses up; Jam will attack the wrong way as the opponent lands behind her. In addition, 46P is heavily unsafe on block, being very easy to punish. To make up for this, she can still do 46PP or 46PK even on block, with 46PK being only -4, but the startup on the K followup is so great that she can be hit out of it between the blocked 46P and the K followup. Jam can fish for a CH with 46PP or try to be safe with 46PK, but it's rather obvious that you'd not want to be in this situation to start. THE ANIMATION After inputting 46, Jam will catch all mid and high attacks for 8 frames. During this time, she cannot tech throws and cannot block low at all. On frame 9, she is able to cancel into the P followup, but if the player chooses to not press the P button afterwards, she is in the animation for another 24 frames. TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS This is where Jam's parry gets a bit confusing. Because she can attack with the followup even when Parry does not catch anything, and she can special cancel into it, she actually has two different versions of the 46 Parry. The cases are: -46 from neutral -46 as a special cancel from an attack The latter case is easier to understand: After pressing 46, Jam will catch mids and highs for frames 1-8, and on frame 9-24 she can follow-up into the P attack. Jam has no other options in this scenario. When parrying from neutral, such as IBing an attack and parrying their next strike, gets a bit more interesting. Again, Jam will catch mids and highs for frames 1-8, but she has several options on frame 9: -P followup -Move right/left -Crouch -FD It is important to note however, that while she can FD on frame 9, simply doing 46 FD P will still result in a P followup from the parry. However, this means that while parrying may seem to have a large whiff animation, it is only during the frames where she can catch an attack that she is truly defenseless to lows and throws. On frame 9 she becomes able to move, jump, or block low if needed. IN SUMMARY -Parry is done as a 46 input, but you can't hold 4 and press 6 out of a blockstring. -After inputting 46, Jam catches mids and highs for the next 8 frames. On frame 9, she can followup. -The only attack she can do out of it is a special move, that she can then cancel into one of two other special moves. She can do this regardless if she catches an attack or not. -46PP is hard knockdown, 46PK sets up combos. 46PK ONLY works on Counter Hit or Air Hit -46P is unsafe against crossups and safejumps. 46PK is safer on block, but can be hit in between the attacks. -If she special cancels into a Parry, she can ONLY do 46P. -If she does Parry in any other situation, she is able to move, crouch, jump, FD, or go into 46P starting on frame 9. More information is being dug up on this move and I'll add to this post as it is found. Please use this thread for any official news of parry uses, or situations in which it is useful. It's very different from the GGXX series, so please assume nothing will work in a similar way.

AnBi, thank you for making the +R version, just a minor frame data fix I want to note for Jam's 22D: Charge completes on frame 20, not 5. In AC+R 1.0 it was frame 5, but they nerfed it going to 1.1 during arcades. I recorded at 60 FPS to check for myself. There's likely other small changes like this, as the mook for AC+R is from 1.0, not 1.1, but this is the one I'm aware of. Thanks. EDIT: actually looking through it, I can go through and double check more numbers. Jam has a Guts rating of 3, not 1. I imagine if you want to push an update you'll want to do a lot more than just one character, so I can get something compiled if you want?

As much as I would love this and think that players should go to other character forums to discuss matchups, how would you logistically do this in a way that's easy to read and navigate? The most I could think of is making the Matchup threads as they are now into links to one thread for both forums. However that's a lot of information to sort through as well. Doesn't help much when you main X character and only see discussion of why character y punishes them.

I feel like if there's one type of "discussion" thread that we need, it's a matchup discussion thread. I'll admit, I haven't checked most of the Matchup forums, but the complaint I've always heard is they're barren and out of date. This isn't really too surprising; if you're expecting one or two moderators to run a matchup thread, chances are they won't have information on the 20-30 matchups whatever game has. It's unreasonable to expect otherwise. Then, when a thread has no info in it, people are hesitant to post (for reasons already discussed, I don't want to get into that), and a large amount of the Matchup subforum goes to waste. I feel each character board needs a matchup discussion general. Players can post small bits of information and pose questions relating to any matchup. The moderators can then, ideally, find and test the relevant tech, and add it to the main matchup threads for archival. I'd test this on the Jam forums, but I think it'd be better to try it on a more active game :p

Do you have a Twitter? Hit me up @amadeous4446 and we'll try to figure something out

Talk to @silmerion on twitter, it's his place and I don't wanna throw the address out lol.

Leo's not gonna be in the same tier as Ram, Millia, or Sin for sure. His damage isn't as high as Sol or Sin's and his main way to keep people from mashing during resets is very high risk for middling reward. He can't dominate neutral like other characters so once you get in you HAVE to go ham and reset them to death, calling out every option they try to do. Maybe we'll figure out some strong hitconfirms into big combos but for now his damage output is average at best, made up for in standing resets. Like I said, if his fS and 2S were one attack level higher he'd be WAY better. His parry I've seen compared to Jam's a lot but it's just completely inaccurate. They're actually complete opposites when it comes to the parry mechanic.

Dont think you're gonna be able to zone too effectively with his projectiles. S version has no distance and H is really long startup. In fact I'm mostly wondering how Leo gets in to start his buttons. His dash isn't the best but dash 5K is really good for covering distance. His jump arc is basically o-sol's but without the fast dash speed (and threat of o-sol's jH) it doesn't really do much for him? He's much faster in BT stance but of course he can't block during it so it's risky.

I can try to test that tonight, but tmk May's 5K lost it's throw invul so I wouldn't be surprised. 2D might be throw invul as well? Oh, that reminds me. I tested 2D RC to see if you can get dumb overheads, but he's still grounded during it. So no, you can't get dumb overheads.

Yeah, tested it last night against Potemkin Buster. It's VERY throw invul.

Some stuff I found in training mode last night, dunno if it's been posted: Dash FD forward throw is REALLY good. Leo slides forward and has a big throw range, plus puts you into BT with knockdown. Use it! Combo into rekka into stance change then a reset seems to be his gameplan. Dash 5K cS 5H 236S 236H (this is the part where you reset them) sK sS sH sS 236S 236H 214S does a total of about 240 on Sin. You can finish your rekka to make them not expect the reset or do sD if you think they'll mash. 6K is fully throw invul and special cancellable. Trying to RC after doing fS>P or 5H>P gives you a PRC so it's really no good lol. 6H can link to 5P. I did 6H 5P 5K fS 2D, but I'm sure there's more practical applications. You can YRC jD at two different points. YRCing it early drops Leo straight down. You can YRC it later and get a turbo fall like Millia has though for a dirty high/low. cS jc jK combos on taller characters but really doesn't have much use. Might be able to set up fuzzy blockstrings with this though. jD seems surprisingly safe? Waiting for frame data though. sH sS combos seem spacing specific. Link worked fine in Sin at all ranges but I had to be close to Slayer to get it to link. Biggest wish right now is that fS and 2S were an attack level higher. Being able to combo to 5H or rekka from them would be AMAZING. Gonna play offline with scene tonight, should get some decent notes from that. EDIT: something I forgot. His s214H literally just ABA's old move. Don't block or block low and you get launched, block high and you get staggered. Can still probably blitz it or super armor through it. Unlike ABA though, Leo can't get his projectile to force them to block and make them get hit.

Will bring PS3+Monitor with AC+R. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Xrd if I remember and have time to download it.

She's about the same as what she was in AC only does more damage now is the reason I got when I asked Ruu the same question.

People freaking out that "oh my GOD guys not every detail in a fighting game story mode is canon!" Well no duh, GG plots were made in a time before "true endings" and story modes were fleshed out in fighting games. With Xrd they'll have to expand on the story the old fashioned way: pick a few events from previous games that they like the most, make those "canon", and carry on. Reminder that EVERYONE's ending happened in GG1, but canon events only include Sol killing Justice, and Kliff's death, with everyone else going through their character development on their own, and in GGX Jam was able to claim the bounty on Dizzy despite in Johnny's story mode the two never meet, and Johnny immediately agrees to adopt Dizzy into the Jellyfish Crew. Xrd will be no different, a few things here and there will be ignored as a canon string of events is woven.

Ah yeah, I completely forgot about the Xrd event. Well that makes sense.

Glad you're open to critique St1ckBuG. TBH I'd still love to see a team tournament on another day of the tournament, they are super fun! But changing the main event at a late time is bad yeah :/

God dammit SKD.

...And GG started hours late.

Alright, mulled it over, here's my piece; In short, I'm not opposed to running teams, but making a sudden change like this is a bad idea. As Zinac has already said, some people are gonna be screwed by this, player plans will have to be remade, people aren't going to get to team with who they actually want to team with, and so on. There's a lot of issues related to logistics alone that crop up from a sudden change in decision like this. I, myself, already made plans and reservations for a small room at the hotel, and not housing extra players. The two people I'd like to team with the most (Brandino and Circuitous, good friends from my regional scene and players I consider myself near to in skill and a mutual understanding of weaknesses and strengths) aren't able to go due to job, money, time, and what have you. Now, my plans have already been made, reservations have been set. I'm not able to change these. Had I known this was going to be a teams event, I may have made plans differently. This is just a personal anecdote, yes, and I can plan on finding another teammate if I really want to, but I've been screwed out of my first picks for a team. As Essay said, people coming internationally or from farther out than East Coast can be fucked by this. I consider it a very good thing I hadn't preregged, because otherwise I'd be having to go through the process of asking for a refund and downgrade to spectator pass. This ties me nicely into my next point, and the main point/question I have: How is this affecting the tournament? Everything was set up and scheduled from the start as being a singles, double elim event. Preregistration has been open for over a month now IIRC. What is the TO going to do with the preregistrations? They're effectively worthless as they are now, as no teams are noted on the lists, and people may be dropping out due to a change in event type. The only method I can think of to recover here is personally contacting every single entrant on the prereg list, informing them of the change, and asking them 1) are they still going to enter and 2) if yes, who will their team compose of. You have a LOT of work to do here. I have no doubt it can be done before NEC, but remember this will have to be down for every prereg entrant and will take a lot of someone's personal time (I'm going to assume no one would be paid for this task). If this isn't done, I can guarantee it now; people will show up, day of the event, and be pissed off because they thought it was a singles, double elim, and they don't have a team. At this point refunds will be demanded and the tournament will be a mess. Teams would also have to be recorded at the door, meaning brackets would be made the day-of the tournament, giving no time for proper seeding and adding enormous stress to TOs. I'm merely concerned for the health of the tournament, and wanting it to be run on-time and run well. No one will walk away happy if the tournament starts 4 hours late and your first match is against your buddies. Please, elaborate on how you're going to address these problems, so we can face this event in confidence. There are also some minor points I have, but are irrelevant to the main point above: This is discouraging newer players. No one wants to "drag down" someone good. No one wants to be "carried". People want to see how good they can do on their own when they're starting out. On a personal level, I already know a handful of players that have decided against entering for these reasons. Are they newer players, who maybe don't "understand" how hype teams are? Sure. Are they still willing to give money to travel to an event and play the game, and do their best to prove themselves? Of course. This is some HEAVY favoritism. Knowing that the event was changed because "the JP guests requested it" (quote St1ckBuG, from Twitter) and there being no dialogue, no discussion with the main scene and playerbase that will be arriving is really sad. If there was any sort of discussion or even heads up, I'd let this pass, but literally changing the rules of an event less than 2 months out because a few strong players wanted it is morally ambiguous at best. I understand the want to cater to the JP players and ensure they have a good time. But this is the kind of stuff that has to be decided before the event goes live and before people start making plans and spending cash on it. This is bad business. I think this should go without saying, but I'll reiterate: When people have spent money on a product or service as a "pre-order" or expecting something specific, and that product or service is changed and different from what was initially paid for, people get pissed. It's natural. I'm sure PLENTY of entrants won't care about the change in format or will even be happy about it; but people that preregged and in a situation with no easy partner, or unwillingness to partner, are not going to be happy. Anyway; that's my view. Teams are fine, and great fun even! Changing an event type with no dialogue with your own scene, after people have already made plans and spent money? Does not make sense.

IK activation has no invul (in every GG up until this point, probably true in Xrd), unlike OD activation in BB, so if you tried doing it while they were meatying you, you'd just get hit :p

How about this then: Being able to BS Rashousen? You can Hammerfall through it (still this way in Xrd I assume), and it's a projectile so it wouldn't get you anything, but I'm just curious lol

Can you BS Heavenly though I wonder

At the risk of being off-topic; a-hyup.

It's somewhat tart, citrusy almost. Has a lot of sweetness when made into a jam. number one kuradoberi jam information source right here