Phrekwenci

GGs Sarvets. Looks like my +R Zappa is getting up to speed.

So I can't put this in the ghost section yet because I don't know what's happening but I've done some testing with returning the ghosts. Sometimes the ghost that misfortuned the opponent will return to Zappa while another ghost is still yet to be returned. Obviously, we would want the misfortuned ghost to return last. I've tried a number of different scenarios but nothing really produces the same results every time. Here's what I've tried. Connect a toss, whiff a toss, 214P Connect a toss, whiff a toss FRC, 214P Whiff a toss, connect a toss 214P Different distances between the ghosts and Zappa Different ghost recoveries (return directly after FRCing the toss, return when ghost is stuck after toss, return when ghost is in auto-return) And of course, different types of tosses

Talking theory, I was playing today and I think we need to rethink our playstyles. I think for the most part, we used to RTSD (rush that shit down) with Zappa for many reasons: dog corner rape, sword needs to be close to connect and ghosts were good for pressure and so on. I'm thinking we need to instead make the opponent come to us in +R. I think the purpose of the possessions now is to frustrate the opponent at the other side of the screen making them want to do something about it. I'm suggesting that we use our possession normals to irritate the opponent from far away and then when they finally evade them, we must be able to react to their approach to us (because instinctively, they want to hit us to remove the possession). So being ready to counter with the universal normal moves (5K, 6P, 2D in some cases etc) along with airthrows, slashbacks, dead angles could be the new way to play Zappa. Thoughts?

I've changed the title of this thread because we were talking about theoretical stuff since we didn't have the game until now. There's another thread for those of us who have the game and can weigh in on things we've tried and will work.

A few new things for Raoh added from older versions. The Last Edguy 214S can now be done in air. If you do it in the air, you will not be able to recover until you hit the ground or RC it. The Darkness Anthem 236S, P or K or S or HS (new!) can be done in air. You can only do one Darkness Anthem per jump. The new HS follow-up moves only about half screen. Credit to Hellscream for the following combo (in the corner): jHS land, jS, jHS, 236S, 66 (air dash), jS, jHS land, sjHS, 236S, jHS land, run up 214S. Without the corner the second 236S wont connect.

While it might seem that the ghosts haven't changed much, they actually have changed quite a bit and you'll need to get used to them in comparison to older versions of Zappa. When we used to continuously tap attack buttons with the ghosts, they would only perform a triplet combination of the attack button pressed. Furthermore, the distance that the attack reached would be fixed; meaning the ghosts would not compensate for push-back on connect. This has now changed. You can gatling any ghost attack into another ghost attack no matter the strength (except 6HS). For example, gatling 5HS, 5Sf, 2S works. This will also work on whiff. Furthermore, the distance the ghost moves depends on which ghost is attacking. The first ghost to attack has a terrible attack range, the second has an attack range more similar to AC but the third ghost moves very far from Zappa (about 60% screen length, except for 2S). So for example, you can whiff 2S, 2S and then use the third ghost 5HS and have it attack very far in front of Zappa. I've found myself getting the ghosts with a summon, using 2K to push them away and then doing 2S, 2S, 5HS. The 5HS should be right on top of them as they get up and can be replaced with 2HS also. There is a small problem with this in relation to the ghost toss connection afterward. If you attack with the third ghost and then input a toss, the ghost will come out from Zappa's location (it will not be the ghost that just attacked), so the toss will not combo (unless using the D toss which MUST use all the ghosts available wherever they are). However, the 2HS explosion will now combo from the standing ghost attacks (except for 2S). So it is advised to end a gatling with an exploding ghost for a knockdown. A couple of other gatling quirks to note: The 5Sc animation will only come out when attacking with the first ghost (close to the opponent of course) and does not have triplet attacks, the other animations afterward are the 5Sf ghosts. 5Sc will still gatling from and into 6P, which means 5Sc, 6P, 5Sc still works. The 5Sc does not count as one of the triplet attacks. So the following is a working combo: 5Sc, 6P, 5Sc, 5Sf, 5Sf, 5Sf (you'll see 4 ghost hits in succession here by simply pressing S after the 6P 4 times). If you attack with all three ghosts, the 2D sweep will not combo after the third ghost. To sweep the opponent with 2D, you can only use two ghost hits or opt to explode a ghost as the third attack. In some cases, using only two ghosts in the gatling and then sweeping will work better for misfortuning purposes. As you can then connect with the K toss directly after the knockdown. The ghosts have a new return command (214P) which will return a used ghost from either a toss or HS explosion. If you command return the ghost that misfortuned the opponent, the opponent will lose misfortune. There is some priority with returning ghosts that I'm still trying to figure out. The jHS now has increased startup and can no longer be comboed into from jS. However, the jS (not j2S) can combo into jK and jD. So it seems we can do sword type air combos except that the jS is not jump-cancellable. This works: jP, jK, jP JC, jP, jS, jD. Speaking of jumping attacks, no jumping ghost normal is counted as a high attack. They can all be blocked low. The only overhead ghost attack is the 6HS. There are two new ghost normals; 6S which moves diagonally up-forward with each button press and j2S which hits underneath Zappa while in the air, but each ghost moves closer to Zappa (opposed to moving away like all the other moves). There was an execution heavy combo that was possible in AC which called for a TK ghost toss FRC in the corner: 6P, 5Sc JC, jP, 236K FRC, jS, jHS land, 5Sc JC air combo. You can do something easier using the new j2S air normal (you don't even need the corner): 6P (or 5Sc) JC, j2S, 236K FRC, jK land 5Sc ground combo. The falling jK is an overhead and should open the opponent up given how long you stay in the air for it (and the FRC flash). Misfortune works a bit differently now also. With each ghost you connect with, a misfortune item come out immediately. So connecting with the D toss using all three ghosts; three random misfortune items will come out. Then after those items come out, 3 more items will come out how we are used to seeing them (one over time every so often). After those three items are out (after the initial hit items), then the ghost will return to Zappa. So you can have a maximum of 6 misfortune items after one connected (D) toss. And speaking of misfortune, the flower pot item will immediately ground and knockdown the opponent on hit. This will definitely screw up your combos so be ready for it.

As we all know, the sword is dramatically different now in comparison to older versions of the game. The main new property is that nearly all sword moves will be in a moment of suspension (where it says in place) after attacking. It'll take about one round second for the sword to begin to return to Zappa after an attack that suspends the sword is used. You can "cancel" the return by attacking. Almost all sword special moves (except for the 63214HS swipe) will reset sword position by returning the sword back to Zappa. Also, many suspension sword moves will also move the sword from the original suspension location. Below is how each attack moves. 5Sc: Moves straight forward about one sword length 5Sf: Moves straight forward but a shorter distance than 5Sc 5HS: Moves straight forward but a bit greater than 5Sc 2S: Moves the sword diagonally down-forward about one sword length 2HS: Moves the sword diagonally up-forward about a bit greater than one sword length 6HS: Moves the sword diagonally down-forward about one sword length (it goes up a bit first) jS: Moves the sword forward about one sword length jHS: Moves the sword diagonally down-forward about half a sword length 63214HS: Moves the sword forward about half a sword length 236S (first hit only on connect with opponent): Moves the sword behind the opponent about two sword lengths Instead of the swipe FRC into 2HS air combo, the new combo after the swipe is 5S, 2HS (2hits), 6HS (one-hit), 63214HS which will leave the sword high in the air*. 2HS will now gatling into 6HS. This is helpful because the 2HS is the only attack that moves the sword upward, so the 6HS will help move the sword back down to be easier to attack the opponent with. The 2HS attack moves the sword more than any other attack, so getting it back down will take some work or a special move reset. However, you can move the sword up and down by using crouching attacks; 2HS to go up and 2S to go down. Just remember when moving the sword, if it whiffs you have some recovery to deal with. Which is why some of the best tactics seem to be using the jumping normals, since Zappa is a moving target and the recovery is on landing. *Because the sword and the opponent are so high, I can almost guarantee opponents will forward tech out at the end of the combo to advanced toward Zappa and away from the sword. You must be prepared for this in some way. Either by sword uppercut anti-air, sword rush evasion, or something else. The moves above will only move the sword about 60% of the screen across before not being able to move forward any more. Zappa must close the gap by getting closer to the opponent in order to move the sword forward more if the opponent is on the complete opposite side of the screen. I will suggest to end ground gatlings with 2HS so that you can use jumping normals to close this gap and continue a combo. For this reason, learning the FRC point in the jHS will be crucial for our gameplay in the following BnB combo: jS, jHS FRC, jS, jHS or jK if close enough. For example (corner): 6P, 5Sc, 5Sf, 2S, 2HS (one-hit) JC, jS, jHS FRC, jS, jHS land, 2S, 2HS (one-hit), 6HS (one-hit), 63214HS. When you (F)RC a sword move it will immediately go into suspension at the location it was when (F)RCed. Both air normals must be blocked high, even if the sword is suspended low to the ground. The 2S is only a low hit if the suspension is at the same height as when the sword is with Zappa. If the sword is any higher, the 2S can be blocked high. The 6HS hits are still high first and low second no matter how high or low the sword is. The sword somersault j236HS has a new FRC point which is activated when Zappa hits the ground for better recovery from the move. Along with the somersault, the uppercut 623HS and the sword rush 236S, HS will reset sword position. I feel the sword rush FRC is also easier now; it's at the point between when the sword is in the position for the attack and when it moves behind the opponent. For a more in-depth look at sword FRCs, check out this post in this thread by 9:02 PM. The sword rush speed and distance can be controlled by holding either back or forward after inputting the move. I believe this will be a good move to use for a few reasons. Using the new speed control, you can make the move relatively safer on block or whiff the move on purpose for other shenanigans. If the opponent is trying to evade the sword and get you by IADing high over it, I would use this move to go underneath (by holding forward) and "collect" the sword to reset the momentum. By holding forward, Zappa will travel approximately 60% of the screen. It seems we will need to revert to our usual ghost air combo (P, P, P, P JC, P, P, P, D) if we end up attacking in the air because of the new sword suspension. Because the sword can never be farther than 60% of the screen distance from Zappa, you can reposition the sword by backdashing if the sword ends up behind the opponent. As you know, backdashing will also help you evade the opponent's incoming offense after they get past the sword and give you some time to decide what to do next. Video about mixups with the sword.

The new dog in comparison to older versions now acts more like a game character because it now experiences push-back when attacking for both the dog and the opponent with every attack. The only attack that moves the dog forward no matter what is 8D. Because of this, the dog's corner pressure is not as strong because it will continue to be pushed out of the corner with every attack (including the dive). However, this new property is helpful to now sandwich the opponent between the dog and Zappa. As the dog attacks from the back, it will push the opponent into Zappa for combos (and infinites). Here are some more infinites by KBNova. If you get the dog and the opponent into the corner, the best thing seems to mixup with 5HS and the bite. One thing I've been practicing is the following: 2HS, 5HS, 5D, 2D. On a crouching opponent it should get all 6 hits; the 5D should come out before the 5HS begins to hit while the 5HS should be hitting during the 2D startup. The last hit should be the bite which will knockdown. Obviously, once your opponent figures out to start blocking high, give them something low instead. I suggest using 5Sf as a low because it will knockdown, but 2K will work as well as a low. There isn't much pushback with the above combination so it works well for keeping them in the corner, if that's what you want. If you have tension you can get closer to Raoh by using the overdrive after the bite and then OTG summon for the last orb; similar to this combo by lynxfort. The problem is the bite cannot be the follow-up attack to the dog neck attack (5D) because then it will not give you orbs (it only gives orbs as the first attack). Also, hitting the opponent in the air with either 6D or the dive of 4D will now ground the opponent immediately with a knockdown. The 2D bite will knockdown the opponent directly in front of the dog but is no longer unblockable. The dive and follow-up dive are now both overheads and can still be used to create unblockables. Controlling the dog is a bit different in this version of the game. Most of the changes revolve around the retreat and dive inputs. See the possible combinations below of main attacks (the first attack) and follow-up attacks (if the main attack hits). Remember, you still are only allowed to attack with the dog twice, even though you may be inputting more than one D button combination, as the case with the 4D retreat. The non-mobile dog moves are executed just like how we are used to in earlier versions of the game (5D and 2D). Remember a blocked 2D as the first hit will give one orb now. 5D, 5D 5D, 2D 5D, 6D 5D, 8D 5D, 4D, D 2D, 5D 2D, 2D 2D, 6D 2D, 8D 2D, 4D, D The mobile dog moves are slightly different when using the dive attack which now will automatically dive at the opponent if holding back and hitting D. You may no longer command retreat the dog (the 4D animation) while it recovers from the first mobile dog attack. You can use the natural dog recovery backflip as the retreat in order to get a different trajectory for the follow-up attack. For example, connecting with 6D then delay the second 6D during the natural recovery backflip to get the dog to lunge over the opponent and get on the other side. 6D, D or 6D 6D, 8D 6D, 4D (no retreat animation; auto-dive) 8D, D or 6D 8D, 8D 8D, 4D (no retreat animation; auto-dive) The retreat animation as the first move works more like a positioner for all mobile dog attacks instead of solely being used for the dive. 4D, D or 4D (all 4D follow-ups work, except the retreat animation; auto-dive) 4D, 6D (all 6D follow-ups work) 4D, 8D (all 8D follow-ups work)

I only have a few points about naked Zappa that have changed which will affect the way we've played before. The 5Sf puddle will now knockdown the opponent. This move also seems to have more recovery than we're used to (in comparison to the timing I used to have with using this move in relation to 8D with the dog) and according to the wiki, the extra 3 frames of recovery makes a difference. The 6HS travels a much shorter distance now, only just a bit farther than the 5HS does. The summon 236P, only grants one orb on hit however it now legitimately OTGs a knocked down opponent. So after any knockdown you can run up 236P RC, 2HS JC, jP, jK, jS JC, jS, jD. On hit, it also seems to float the opponent higher. This seems to be good for using a summon to follow-up after 2D, 236P combos (ie.: 2D, 236P *ghost, 5P, 5S, 6S, 6S, 236D, see combos here). Because there is only one orb on hit, doing summon RC summon combos are wasteful. You are better off using tension with the overdrive for orbs instead. The 3 centipede overdrive 632146HS will grant one orb on each hit. This move will also OTG a knocked down opponent. The forcebreak 214D will grant 2 orbs on hit.

With a new game comes a new thread, and it seems a new character almost entirely. Please add to the discussion about Zappa in AC+R in this thread about your experience with the new (and improved!) Zappa and I will update the first few posts as good information comes from our discussion. I'll be making posts for each summon in this thread* and updating as necessary. Zappa owns your soul for free! *I thought about making separate threads for the summons but decided it would just add clutter. I can be talked out of this in private messages of logical reasoning.

Yes the sword uppercut still has a FRC. Actually all sword special moves have an FRC point now, including the air somersault. I haven't figured out the timing on that yet but it's supposed to make for a safe landing.

Yes, I feel the same way with the sword. We'll have to get more practice with it to be effective but I feel the jumping sword moves my be a key to some success along with the specials that reset position.

Let me know if you end up doing a Zappa character guide.

I've been very busy with graduate classes at school so I haven't gotten a chance you really go over everything we have. I'm almost inclined to simply make new threads and start from scratch with AC+R info (since the game is in many of our hands now). I should be free this weekend to start cleaning. As for the dog. I was re-watching some of the top Zappa players in AC+R, and you can see them having a lot of trouble with the dog in the corner. One of the tactics that Chonari was using in the corner was using 6D while Zappa jumped in with jP then whiffed the 8D to move the dog closer and came down with jS land into standard gatling. Really complicated maneuver for hardly good results. It seems there's a shift of focus to having the dog midscreen rather than in the corner. Case in point (seriously watch this).

What is the differences between this thread and this thread?

Hey guys, I'll be creating new threads soon for AC+R, the Xbox360 version got the update recently. There's a lot of changes as you might know but just as a teaser here's a few things: Naked: the 6HS doesn't go as far as it used to and the f5S puddle seems to have more range (remember it knocks down now). Dog: Lots more pushback; the dog dive isn't good now when in the corner. It seems the only thing that will really get the dog close in the corner is the 8D or maybe 4D, 6D and have the dog jump "over" them. Sword: I need weeks to figure all this out but as I suspected there are some attacks that move the sword in a direction for you, I'll have a listing in the real thread. Ghosts: Very interesting thing I found, any ghost attack can gatling into another. That means 5HS, 5S, 6S works but you can only gatling 3 ghosts until you run out of ghosts to attack with. Then you'll need to do a special move (like a toss) or go back to a normal move (which is difficult because of pushback). Raoh: The only real changes are the air special moves and we've seen some cool stuff with that already. Also there's a new Darkness Anthem followup with HS (slow and half screen)

But Xrd is coming to PS3. So why not get a PS3? I can imagine the price dropping soon, when the PS4 is released.

If you ask me this means nothing. We've been given times all year with each one passing us by. At this point I really can't be happy with what they do until they release what they've been promising for the past year. Put up or shut up.

Naked D, 89D, land, 2HS (before they hit the ground) JC, jKjS JC jKjSjD You could start this with 2HS RC, 66 2HS D for extra dizzy opportunities.

I don't think I've ever even tried to do Zappa's full dust combo (I do the impossible dust instead) but this looks about right for naked and the sword. The ghosts won't work because of lag so you might have to substitute jP instead of jS. The air jump cancel should be just before the final jSD.

As much as I'd want Zappa in, the phrase about the other characters receiving no major changes throughout the series scares me with Zappa since his Sword mechanics have changed in each version. In #R there was no sword lag, in AC (maybe Slash) they added sword lag, and in AC+R ...well I'm sure you've seen it now. But I hope he is what they believe as the quintessential "unusual" character and returns in Xrd...

If that's the new HCL in the top right, it looks gnarly.

I don't have the game yet so what I say is hypothetical however, all of Zappa's summons except Raoh should beat Justice in +R. Sword for obvious reasons; ghost P toss and new command retrieval; new Dog retreat + lunge combination to go over Justice attacks. Also, killing dog allows for Zappa to summon a better option.

That sounds like a cool idea. I'm sort of waiting for +R to be available for everyone so that people can play and confirm things before we go nuts rearranging. I think a thread for each summon might be a good idea too and perhaps we can incorporate the "tricks" into each one of those threads.

I'm online right now for the next hour or so.