thanks purify, ive been practicing up just in case ngbc is offered at C3---i see what ur saying about kim/big i seen vids and wondered wats all the humbum about-yes both chars seem strong as fuck but not broke-i think solid game play and a couple of "tricks can get u a W against them----i like kaede/hao/iori/mudman, i read DGs take on these guys what is everyone elses