Final Ultima
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That would be hilarious, but I don't think Ragna would fix his direction after the j.B if it crossed them up.
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Oh, of course, the CH 5C would have to be airborne to work like that. Certainly, there's not a lot that can be done about that unless you catch an airborne opponent. TK 214B has the unfortunate misfortune of not bouncing the opponent like the grounded version does, so that wouldn't work either. P1 is the proration that only the first move in the combo will apply to later moves. P2 is the proration every move in the combo will apply to later moves.
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8996266 - Neko (Tsubaki), Kyouichi (Jin) vs kaqn (Ragna) http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8996785 - kaqn (Ragna) vs Nisepachi (Jin), Zakiyama (Hazama) Observe in wonder as kaqn . Edit: Turns out you don't even need to JCC it anymore in Continuum Shift, oh well.
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Honestly, scoring CH 214B won't be a common occurrence at all. People don't tend to mash buttons during Ragna's block strings. Even as a punish it's not the best move to start with because it's got a P1 rating of 80%, just straight up CH 5C into the rest would probably work better. Actually, it'd probably do more damage as well. That said, it's an interesting combo, so you could probably post it in the combos thread if you want.
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I suppose this is actually less of a gimmick than most, but it's something I tend to do that I've noticed other Ragna's do in matches recently. After connecting with a 623C/D -> 236C -> 214C (214D in Continuum Shift) that puts the opponent into the corner, do a falling j.B to catch them out of a forward tech. It works every goddamn time. Some even forget to tech afterwards so you get a free combo out of it. Edit: It's even endorsed by kaqn!
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Nice, that's breaking the mold a little. And damn, that's a pretty long combo to not blue heat. Looking pretty awesome there, Ragna. Clearly the untechable time mechanic change is helping him out in more ways than one.
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I'm saying if it turns out to be true, it'd be harder, yes. Think how hard it is to do dash 2A after 22C on Jin. It'd be like that, only with the added complication of a possible accidental 6B. As for the dash 5A variation, even in Calamity Trigger it lead to a "cornered to mid-screen" double 22C combo that worked on everyone that dash 5A worked on, and double 22C combos that worked anywhere on all of those sans Litchi. None of the moves involved seem to have been nerfed in regards to pushback and untechable time in Continuum Shift, so they should still all be possible.
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By the way, pertaining to your recent post in the combo list, a while back I listed all the ways you could possibly combo into Black Onslaught. I didn't know about BK 5D (DC) and 3C (JCC) until recently though, so I just edited those in. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=465729&postcount=1056
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If possible, dash 5B would be considerably harder (3 frames less to work with) but a much better option overall. It'd almost undoubtedly be universal unlike dash 5A which whiffs on several characters, and it would most likely lead into a lot more combo-wise.
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Jump Cancel Cancel. Black Onslaught isn't special cancelable, so you've got to Jump Cancel the 3C but input the command before you leave the ground.
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Interesting. It definitely sounds like something that'd work on paper. Ooh, and can you test if dash 5B works after 22C, and better yet, if the stagger lasts longer after a Fatal Counter?
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Ah, fair enough. Assuming those are all the combos there, the new thread will probably have to wait until I watch enough videos with new combos in decent enough quality to see the exact figures. That way I can add anything half-useful to the ones you've already listed to pad out the opening post. Goddamn, it'd be a lot more entertaining if most of the new stuff I saw wasn't just the old stuff with awful proration and Belial Edge to help the combos almost break even. Ah well, not many changes in the gameplan at least.
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How much more content is there to sift through? I may end up using it as a basis to create the "Ragna Continuum Shift Combos" thread. I've avoided doing it before now because I'm gonna make sure all the combos have damage figures and are arranged by practicality and ease of use this time round.
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Well, with Fatal Counter it's difficult to imagine it screwing up. Even without it I've not really seen a Belial Edge not connect if the combo was still prompt enough to make j.C, j.D (JC), j.C/j.D possible. Most of the times I've seen people tech out of Belial Edge, it was because the angle of approach was bad or something and they kick out of the opposite side. As for doing 3C after FC 2C. If you can't do it deep enough to just cancel into 22C, you could probably do FC 2C, 3C, 22C (whiff), dash 3C, 22C if you're close enough to still hit with 3C, or FC 2C, dash 5B, 3C, 22C (whiff), dash 3C, 22C if you aren't.
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It adds 2 frames of untechable time to all hits during the ensuing combo.
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Aha, that's ideal. Excellent news. Don't know if a Gauntlet Hades follow-up would prorate too much to be worthwhile now, but it's definitely worth considering. You could probably get some decent 22C combos off that too. If stagger time is considered in Fatal Counter bonus untechable time, it pretty much confirms that Ragna will be able to do massive 22C combos.
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Neither of those Fatal Counter, I believe. Dead Spike doesn't because I saw it hit with the regular "Counter" message in a match against Noel. 2D doesn't according to Spirit Juice here, although I don't know if he tested it in Blood Kain. Ragna's Fatal Counters might be a bit more sporadic.
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Ok, so I was just checking out a Japanese BlazBlue wiki looking for any updates on combos for Ragna when I came across something that may entirely justify 22C's damage being halved, at least in my eyes. 3C, 22C, dash 5B, 5D (DC), 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.D, 214C, dash 5D, 22C If you really can do dash 5B after 22C, that opens up a whole new world for Ragna's double 22C combos. According to that same wiki, Ragna's advantage after a 22C is now 10 frames. If I were to guess how much it had in Calamity Trigger, I'd say 9 frames because a regular 5B had enough time to go through its 8 frame start-up and then still hit, but not enough to add dash momentum to it. One frame... one frame could make a pretty big difference, if this is all true. Edit: Oh damn, I wonder if Fatal Counter adds untechable time to staggers too...
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Now for something that's a lot more abstract than its amount of moves would have you believe. 5B, 2B, 3C (JCC), 2141236C - Damage: 1372 (pre-Black Onslaught), 16373 (post-Black Onslaught) Works on everyone but Noel, Litchi, Bang, Carl and v-13-. Noel can be hit by 3C (JCC), 2141236C point blank, but any attempt to combo into it fails without the corner. It's the least practical thing in the world, but part of why I like it is that unlike every other Astral Heat combo Ragna has, this one has basically no strings attached for a majority of the cast. No corner only, no crouching opponent only, no Counter Hit only, no Blood Kain only. It's nice. CH 5C, 6D, delay j.D, dash 5B, 2B, 3C (JCC), 2141236C - Damage: 3023 (pre-Black Onslaught), 18024 (post-Black Onslaught) Works anywhere on Jin, Tager, Rachel, Arakune and Haku-Men. Against Ragna and Taokaka, you can either do this combo in the corner, or you can choose to omit the 2B instead for 2809 and 17810 damage respectively anywhere. 5B, 3C, 22C, dash 5A, 5B, 3C (JCC), 2141236C - Damage: 2455 (pre-Black Onslaught), 17456 (post-Black Onslaught) Works anywhere on Tager, Taokaka, Rachel and Haku-Men. Against Jin, replace 5A with 2A for 2449 and 17450 damage respectively. Against Ragna and Taokaka, you must be in the corner. Just extending the concept a little. CH 214D, dash 2C, 3C, 22C, dash 5A, 5B, 3C (JCC), 2141236C - Damage: 3448 (pre-Black Onslaught), 18449 (post-Black Onslaught) Works anywhere on Tager and Haku-Men. Against Ragna and Taokaka, you must be in the corner. Corner version can be extended with a dash 5B after CH 214D for 3841 and 18842 respectively. And now if we combine the two previous ideas, we get this gem:- (corner) CH 5C, 6D, delay j.D, dash 5B, 5C, 3C, 22C, dash 5A, 5B, 3C (JCC), 2141236C - Damage: 4391 (pre-Black Onslaught), 19392 (post-Black Onslaught) Tager only. Nyuk nyuk nyuk.
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Well, to be fair, it's not without its uses. If you've already done a 3C or 2D during the combo, you could always do a quick dash 3C, 22C or dash 3C, 5D, 22C after Belial Edge just to add to the damage. Every little helps.
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3C on an airborne opponent doesn't count, as it doesn't have knock down property. They'll tech out as soon as they touch the ground.
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Well, it's still not optimal while we still have to worry about life drain, especially with the nerf to how much he gets back, but I'm just saying there's no disadvantage to comboing in and out of Blood Kain as opposed to starting a combo in Blood Kain now. It's only real use at the moment is for outright killing someone without a Burst, or I suppose if your health is so low that the life drain won't matter anyway. I love Blood Kain and all, but the only reason I even post Blood Kain combos at all is for combo video fluff.
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Merging and renaming because block strings and mix-ups kinda go hand in hand. To answer your question as best I can, Ragna has a pretty hard time getting away with mix-ups scott free, his overheads are far from safe to just throw out of nowhere unless you're fighting someone with a crap anti-air game. The general idea is to just scare your opponent into just sitting there, at least then even if they block correctly, you can reapply pressure and attempt your mix-ups again. Ragna's block strings tends to work best in short bursts. The longer your block strings last, the harder it is to avoid having to do a mid-range 5C, thereby dooming you to commit to something. Go for the mixup as soon as you can. A simple starter can go immediately into 2B which won't get you punished often if left alone. If you decide to continue, you can do the same thing or opt to gatling your 5A, 6A, 2A or 2B into 6B. If neither works, you can cancel into 3C so you can jump cancel and go from there, stuff like that. Thing is, even then, 2B is unsafe on IB (and unsafe to even to string into anything on regular block). It's not an easy hole, but it's there. All that leaves you with is stuff like 5B into 3C, which is pretty sad. There's always tick throws after light pokes just to be obscure, but don't expect to get away with that all too often. Regular throwing when its not guaranteed isn't all that full proof in this game. At the end of the day, you need to be ambitious because no opportunity is free. Go for the occasional 5B or 6A into 6D pressure, do the occasional TK 214B or j.C, j.D, air 214B, sometimes wait a while before continuing a gatling to throw them off, show them no respect. Just remember, the key to getting away with murder is to not make yourself look like a suspect. If you go for 6B all the time, you'll get yourself murdered. It's as simple as that.
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Videos from a couple of days ago that have yet to be posted:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdYnl5sHJ0 - Haku-Men (Firumu) vs Ragna (Satoshi), 2nd match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWGqePGWYWc - Jin (Inuo) vs Ragna (K-5), 1st match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxnpoGrcL6g - Bang (Warsman/Dora) vs Ragna (Tarou) And the recent VAMOS videos re-uploaded to YouTube:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SziFvBr62Bk - Jin vs Ragna, 2nd match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGZwLodghv4 - Ragna vs Litchi, 2nd match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBwvakp-32Y - Ragna vs Tager, 1st match Seems to be a lot more posting than discussion. I can understand why though. Edit: I saw a rather interesting combo from a Ragna player during the second set of VAMOS matches, hopefully it will be uploaded to YouTube soon. (corner) j.214B -> delay 214D, 5B, 5D (DC), 6A (HJC), j.D, j.214C, 5D, 214B -> 214D It did about 3700, not too shabby.
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I hate to double post, but seriously, you guys need to post more. Some of this stuff is important. That certainly explains a few things. Fortunately if you're doing Gauntlet Hades twice in one combo outside of Blood Kain, you've almost finished the combo anyway. Adding extra proration won't really do much to just 5B, Inferno Divider etc. This is actually excellent for Ragna. Comboing in and out of Blood Kain will no longer reduce the length of his combos. This was the reason why most of my Blood Kain combos in the Calamity Trigger combo list had to have Ragna start in Blood Kain already.