TheRealBobMan

Calvados? Like Ramma Ray? And it's just a 214 input? Also, an actual 360 in this game? Extremely surprised it's not a 632146 input.

5H is a good general starter since it'll lead to meterless damage anywhere on the screen. IAD into the usual 'j.K > j.S > FFVCL > whatever' as you said. If you have them in the corner, c.S > VCL loop will probably lead to more damage (character dependent on how many VCLs you could get - might need to c.S > 5H > VCL or something). This could really hurt, but depends on context a little bit. If you have 25% and they're in the corner, 'VCL YRC > j.D > VCL loop > Pdive loop' will hurt really bad. Like 50% on Pot to 70% on Chipp (starting from full, so before guts kicks in). If you have 50%+ you can Fortissimo, and 'IAD j.K > j.S > FFVCL > whatever' if they're mid screen, or go into VCL loop in the corner. This would be the max damage scenario, though it's expensive for like 20-30 more points of damage than the VCL YRC option. Use this if you caught them panic bursting to escape after you cranked RISC (to get huge damage), or to kill, or if you have a meter surplus (75%+) and they're low on meter to use to escape your oki afterward.

It's more of a promotion. "Don't have a PS4 yet but know you're eventually going to get one? Go ahead and get the game on PS3 now and buy all the DLC, then buy it later after after you get a PS4 and the price drops since it looks/sounds better and carry over all your DLC." Except that Revelator will probably be out by the time most people jump to PS4... so....

Not that I know of. I never get on Skype, but maybe we should make one. I know there's a GG chat that sort of turned into a general FG chat though... I'm 'in' that one even though I never use Skype. On the one hand, I like the idea of having a chat like that to facilitate real-time conversation when people are practicing, but on the other hand I don't like the idea of info getting buried in the chat instead of being put here for people to reference later. I guess as long as someone helps to move valid info over to the forum it'd be worthwhile.

When you use VCL YRC on oki, being put into the air is actually one of the greatest strengths about that option. VCL is active for 10 frames so most characters can't backdash it when meatied. You'll be put into the air, but because you can FD while the active hitbox is on top of them, this is reversal safe (DPs, Supers), and since you're airborne you don't have to worry about reversal throw. If they don't try to DP or BS to get out, you can j.K before landing or 2K after landing for a near-unreactable mixup. You can also confirm the hit if they tried to disrespect and poke out (some characters can reversal 6P through meaty j.K and will get caught by the VCL) and go into j.D > VCL loop for huge damage in the corner. If they go for BS it's a little more complicated, but that's risky for them to do if you actually mix up your oki since they have to read the high/low correctly. It also doesn't protect them from silly walk-up > throw shenanigans, and you can call them out with Fortissimo oki to plow through the BS. FFVCL only works during airdash frames, and it seems that you lose the landing recovery if the VCL is done during the last frame of the airdash (which happens to be set up such that if you dash > j.K > j.S > FFVCL perfectly frame tight you'll be on that frame). You will not FFVCL during hoverdash.

The vertical hitbox is bigger than it looks, so it's hard to use j.D FDC to cross up. Just use simple safe-jumps and hard 'whiff-j.H > block' baits. That said, it has long recover just like other DPs even though it doesn't leave the ground. Don't be afraid to IK it when you have 50% and it's match point with Axl in Hellfire. It requires prediction in order to do this fast enough, but you can crouch under 5P and then HCL punish it. It's much easier for him to bait us and CH with 2H or Rensen, but we have this option if the Axl isn't being smart and thinks he can just 5P spam. Timing really needs to be spot on though, so you are taking a risk and guessing. If Axl ever uses 2P in this matchup instead of 2H you can STBT under it.

Well, you could keep trying new things now that you know what already works. Maybe you'll fail, and the thing that worked wont be the last thing you tried?

She'll probably be able to place at least one bag off of a knockdown. I bet that with the right CH she would be able to place a bag, then resume the combo with like a 5P and place a second bag with the knockdown when the combo ends (and a summon already on screen by then to assist oki). Considering that her one Organ command detonates all bags and summons as of the last test, I wonder how viable that tool will be. She gets crazy meter, but it looks like she has to YRC if she wants to use the Organ because of how slow it is. Or RC on hit I guess.

You'd still time it such that you're blocking away from the direction you dashed. EX: You dash in, then double jump over then with j.D and FDC before you cross over them. FDC happens and you start to drop right around the time you cross up. This is going to be a better tool for baiting BS now because CH Kdive and Sdive give that little bounce to help corner push, and if you really felt like it you could spend some meter for a combo. If you were backed into a corner and did like sj.D FDC Sdive crossup to beat the right normal, you could get a meterless combo since CH Sdive will wallbounce in the corner. Just kinda depends on spacing when this occurs. That's pretty complicated though. I have enough success going over lows with j.D FDC j.S when I have limited escape options. I'd still rather have ghetto reversal VCL FRC from AC/+R times, but we gotta use what we got.

With I-No I couldn't get any Pdive combos to work, but I didn't want to grind on timing all night for one small thing like that. Pdive is hard to connect on lightweight and skinny characters depending on what you use to set it up.

With j.K you can have an almost non-existent delay and still have it come out, depending on if you're doing it from the air (j.S > dj.D FDC > j.K) or on the ground (5K/c.S > j.D FDC > j.K). From the ground you'll need to delay slightly. j.S has more start up so you'll need to delay a little longer. I can never really get j.S > dj.D FDC > j.S to combo, but I can get j.S > dj.D FDC > j.K to combo no problem at this point. You'll want to develop muscle memory for a long delay in case you want to cross up out of a dash, and a shorter delay for tight pressure. Also work on learning this from 5K, c.S, and 5H so you can improve your ground mixup and pressure options. 5H is kinda more gimmicky because of how much you'll push yourself out, but j.D FDC > low airdash pressure is pretty good if you scare them into blocking. Since 5H is lvl 4, you have a lot of "advantage" frames to work with by staying low to the ground, though you'll lose some of them while traveling forward, and a lot of them if the opponent IB's it. If they're not starting the move at all, you're doing something else wrong with your timing. Which method are you practicing? The older method where you don't have a burst and do j.D > 2 buttons, or the newer method that works with a burst stocked 100% of the time where you hold 2 buttons, then j.D > block? It's kind of good to learn both of them since the older method is easier from neutral, though the newer method is also really easy to set up. If anyone can't work the buttons with the new method, do Zato's Challenge mode and then try again.

Oh sweet! +64 GB in Corner vs Sin (working on his combos right now for the wiki): Throw > 6H > HCL > 5H > HCL ~ D (178) Throw > 2K > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive > Sdive > c.S > j.S > j.H > Kdive (250) Throw > 2K > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive > Sdive > 6H > HCL ~ D (252) And for reference (still with +64GB): Throw > RC > short dash j.D > VCL > c.S > VCL > c.S > VCL > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive (244) That RC prorate hurts. Better practice these, even if it'll rarely come up. Suddenly I-No's throw is a high damage option if you've pressured your opponent. Now if only f.S was the +R version so we'd have a strong RISC cranking move with frame advantage besides 2H.

Most of the listed combos aren't optimized, but they're on there as reference as things that work. When comboing after j.D > VCL, you'll need to delay the VCL after j.D slightly. If you mess that up you can still sometimes link 5P before whatever else you're doing, but if you want to link c.S (more optimized) or 5K (at range) you need to delay the VCL. I'm going to work on those more this week. Hopefully I can get Sin values in, reformat the wiki a little bit to improve readability, and get some charts in for combos off of 5D, STBT-H, and CH 5H/2H.

Oh definitely ask questions. We're here to help, and it points out stuff that isn't explained well enough (or at all). I should link to this page from the wiki since this is a good topic for beginners, or intermediates that try new characters out. If it's easier to do the regular version, then get that down and remember to do SJ for 4 characters. If you can do the SJ version just as consistently, do that and change it for just VE and ZA since it's easier to remember. I made sure there were a couple varieties of combos on there since some might be easier than others, and some might not be as universal as others. Also, as you gain a little more experience it's easier to look at a chart like that and derive new things that might work when you see a bunch of things that do and don't work.

I know I didn't finish the combo section on the wiki, but if you look at the charts I made you'll see that the SJ version will link on everyone except for Venom and Zato (compared to the regular jump version which drops on FA, SO, IN, MA), and if you link just j.S into the HCL~D instead of doing j.S > j.H > HCL~D, you'll get knockdown anywhere on the screen. Damage output is lower by 9, but this is the most universal option that always gives knockdown. You only have to remember to change the combo on two characters this way. That said, you can still get knockdown with j.H if you start near 1/2 screen and push them into the corner so that HCL wont whiff. If you want that extra 9 damage you'll have to read distance to the corner on: PO, BE, SO, EL, LE, KY, SI, RA, MI, CH. I'll look into the sj.P > sj.S > sj.H > Sdive ender and eventually wiki-fy it. I also need to make edits for some of the known 1.1 balance changes.

Holy shit, you rock!

Next one needs to be about the Dust button, set to "Another One Bites the Dust".

When I get home I'm going to try to combine this with the Dash Brake buffer. Hopefully someone gets to this before then.

You don't have proximity block in the air right? That would probably explain it.

Has anyone sent an E-mail to Aksys with this info so they can translate it and forward it to ArcSys for us? It's too late for them to patch before Evo. I forgot that it's the end of June already - it would take several weeks for the patch to be certified, so there just isn't enough time when you factor that they have to fix it, and would want to test it since it's a system wide mechanic change. It's probably only going to take a few lines of code to fix, but it's still high risk because it's a game-wide change to input priority, so they'd need to spend some time on it to make sure it doesn't break something somewhere else. Still, I'd rather see this fixed ASAP. Does anyone fluent in Nihon want to write to ArcSys directly to save time and effort?

Hiding an input in the recovery of another move is pretty different from doing the input for a move and pushing an extra button to get it to block instead. This probably wont hurt oki/wakeup as much as it'll hurt neutral since, like you said, safe options (like the basic safe jump) will probably bait it. But for neutral, it's going to be worse than SF4 because you don't have to whiff a normal to use it. I say this is way worse than the Burst Bait OS that was patched. It probably wont ruin the game, but why is it here? I'm testing PS3 +R now and it doesn't happen in this game. @Maho: There's a definite margin for input error in +R though that might make it look like this is a thing, but with thorough testing I'm pretty confident that it doesn't work that way in this game. Negative edge makes it so that if you release the button too quickly you'll only FD for like a frame and then the move will come out, and if you release to neutral before hitting the button, you'll get the move without FD coming out, which is expected. This could account for the player thinking that it's an OS. We'd need more info from him/her. When I map a button to PKS and replay the same input, I'm only getting FD. No changes based on what the other player is doing.

Ok, got it to work. Yeah, this is stupid. The Burst YRC option select that people complained about has nothing on this. Ugh.

Ok, so that's a pain in the ass dealing with Leo, and I guess it could help May or Venom with traps using their down>up charges. What about Type 3 which apparently works after any special move or super? The 214 and 63214 input ones make some kind of sense since you're ending with the directional input that gives FD, and you're doing the same with Leo's DP if you use 1>7. What do you have to do to be able to do an input like 623 and get it to cancel into FD? I tried 623 > 1S+H, but that didn't work. Am I timing it wrong? Is there another method?

It looks like in the first example, K+H are pressed at the same time, whereas in the second example K is pressed first, with K+H on the next frame. If I map S+H to my H button, then do 214S+H that way, I get FD 100% of the time that my recorded CPU doesn't do anything, and GV any time I have it play back and do the input after it starts moving. So yeah, this is a thing. However, I can't get it to work yet with Special Moves or Supers ending on an input that isn't 4. This is the version that has me concerned. It's the version that we have in the example video, except that the input wasn't clean. I tried it myself with Leo with S+H mapped to a button, but I either get FD when hitting the button on the 4 input, or the DP on the 7 input, and that's regardless of what the CPU is doing. To me, this seems like user error. This version of the OS is what worried me most, so if it's not a thing I'm a lot happier. Anyone else have input? RE Maho: It looks like it's tied to the opponent's hurtbox. I can do it from like 1/2 screen if I'm attacking Axl's chain on his f.S.

Run in VV / Dash Break > Throw. Fuck defense, this is bullshit anywhere. It's going to help some characters more than others too, but I guess I wont fully understand it until I jump in and play with it. Is this a timing thing? Based on the explanation of how the tech works, I thought you get the attack if they do, so you'd think you'd get your reversal if they meatied and FD if they delayed to bait the DP.