SH_

what's up cali bitches, good stuff yo, needs to win more monkey (or yeknom, watch trolls 2, they do it better), but on the real quality stuff, I give you cali guys :psyduck: :psyduck: out of 5.

I thought best d combo was 5D jc>j.S>j.HS>j.S-D>j.S-D ad j.SD>j.D if you were in close and replacing the first j.HS wit j.S if you are far away (since the j.HS wouldn't hit ASAP)

there in lies problem, if people are ok at playing at a scrubby level, they aren't prolly looking at this forum anyhow... if they wanna improve they're gonna do it through a mix of experience and advice, my advise is let the natural progression of things happen, counters aren't broken or nothing, there are things that beat counters, and their are counters to the counter's counter so let them find these things out... or to provide info, for instance, against Baiken's counters you can one hit at a time, the only time her counters would be dangerous if your opponent is doing the 1 hit, wait and see method is if he has 25% tension to do baku which is fast enough to catch a lot of things, especially off guard, if they are counter happy you can also range them out (with the appropriate character, Faust, Axl, certain summons for Zappa, ABA, etc.), you can also proceed to jump cancel your hits often (only attacking with JCable attacks, put them in guard stun, and jump in expectation of baku, or P counter), you also have interesting character specific counters that will work (with Ogawa v Sharon, Ogawa used a lot of 2S - breaking the law to try and bait out HS counter), since many baiken players are looking for the guard stun, feign the guard stun and throwing them is an effective tactic, you can also guard stun spam into safe super (for instance, Order Sol's 2S into level 2 fireball super) is an effective thing sometimes, you can also just make it so she doesn't block in the first place (a lot of first hit mixups, Eddie can unblockable)... that being said, for everything that I just said there is a counter (within reason, and excluding eddie unblockables, he's the best for a reason), now I whole heartidly think that there are people who are gonna look at my post, read it, and then draw a total blank, some people just gotta play to get the experience (I didn't learn shite from forums except that there are a bunch of people who will tellyou something is right even if it's clearly wrong) so my advice to them is to go out and play cause it's what you need more than these forums right now... also, everyone of you has an open invitation to play me at evo, I'll be there starting on the wed before, hit a nigga up, I'll be staying wit Vet...

doomscyther... if you have experience in other games, of course what you know is gonna translate over, I'm just speaking on this was my first serious 2D game, and if you started from ground zero scrub style play, then you spammed them, if you were top 10 in 3S and you switch to gear, of course you aren't gonna do the dumb things cause you learned about them in other games or contexts... hellmonkey... when you started the game, were you already a player of other games... I'm talking to the baiken nubs out there who are just now figuring out that there's more to a game than learning their move list, that's what I was talking about but that being said, if your advice to someone is just "don't spam counters" I'd rather say "learn why not to spam counters", the point I've seen of the game is to do better and understand why so when you want to continue improvement, you have good grounds for which to start off with... oh, and since this is a baiken strat thread, I'd say do more j.K fuzzy guard cause all of you aren't doing it enough (/sarcasm), on the real, just hit the combos, take advantage of opportunities, and learn for yourself what to do...

your example is prudent hellmonkey, but if you use VV a lot, it forces your opponent to figure out how to bait it, beat it, or just get around it, doesn't it? and if you are looking to become any better, you need more than just the one player anyhow, if they are just losing to VV when you play Sol, then they're not getting better fighting against Sol until they learn something basic like that anyhow and you won't really be able to get that much better until they put up more of a fight... Same with counters, if you just counter, don't know why, but you do it "sparringly" cause some faceless name on the internet told you to and it works, then why shouldn't they be doing it all the time (cause of course they never figured out why they shouldn't be doing it all the time for themselves), especially if it's working, also, when you started did you do the counters "sparringly" or did you spam them because you didn't know not to? (if you claim you didn't, I'ma call BS so you mine as well agree) and furthermore, on top of everything else, there are metagames and mind games that are very deep and intricate with counters that need to be learned for improvement and if they use them sparringly, then it either won't happen, or it will take several times as much longer... rebuttal? edit: I hadn't read villanous post yet, and I have a STRONG arguement with that, people who try and play "right" from day one often times miss MUCH of the things that come through a logical progression with the game, often times the japanese start with that strong basis, add on to it, and never really get away from their basic effective style of play when players from america who try and catch up fast (I'll admit, I was one of them for a LONG time) can prolly do huge flashy, big damage combos, do setups that you are told to do as opposed to your own (so you know they are good, you just don't know why, so when something else comes along then you don't know if you should use that instead because it would take you a while to ascertain the pro's and con's of the original setup to begin with), and on top of it all, it stunts you because you are trying to play above your head, and you may win against same level opponents like that for a little bit, but as soon as they start the improvement that'll come when someone wants to improve badly enough comes anyhow, then you will be at a large disadvantage... this is personal experience talking, I tried to play over my head for a while, and it REALLY hurt my understanding and growth in the game, so I had to change how I think, how I played, and what I did, and eventually didn't suck...

I don't believe them to be equal either, I do believe they all have practical application in someone arsenal... as for the don't do it if you are new thing, I honestly think the best way is to do it till you learn why you shouldn't, if your opponent just loses to guard counters, then it makes sense to keep doing them, alternatively if your opponent eventually becomes adept at baiting them out, punishing you for doing them, and setting you up for doing it, you learn the meta game around the counter / not countering mind game, and you won't get to that conclusion by just not doing something because someone says not to, that's not learning something, that's being told and complying (for the record, when I first started I spammed em like they never went out of style, and eventually people would punish me for doing so so I learned and adapted, and can now use them properly)...

for the record, this thread is once again making my explode ... now I'm aware a lot of this is personal opinion, so for the love of God don't state it all as facts because the newer players that are trying to learn the one arm one eyed wonder weasel maybe confused... now to the facts, every counter has it's uses, there is free stuff for all of em, and a lot of it is risk reward based things, find the best reward for the least risk, don't worry, I'll give examples... ouren: it's a great addition mainly because anyone that fights against her has to keep it in the back of their mind, someone said "snipe counterhits" with it, or use it to "annoy", there are guaranteed instances where you can do it ASAP and get CH, mid gatling with a lot of characters (considering the increased range of some people, and the great range of said people in general) ex: Baiken v Eddie, Eddie is playing super american abare style, not compensating for Baiken's options, he does a poke string (2P-2S-far drill FRC) and you ouren the 2S, that's gonna CH the drill regardless of the FRC or no (it'll come out and he'll STILL get CH, it's a great thing)... youshinjin: it's a lot more viable with the way the game plays, a lot more air attacking, and it's just a good move to get people off you, once again, it's a situational move so using it as an end all be all at -18 on block would be craziness... ex: Baiken v Faust, if Faust EVER does 2K with less than 25% tension, you can block and get it for free, also good against his j.D, j.K, and pogo. mawarikomi: this will net you free throws if your opponent ever becomes predictable, it was (and still is) a great reason why you don't guard string her ever, if things your opponent do are very side dependant (Anji has a lot of d/f moves, a character has 2 moves one is QCF button, and the other is QCB button, like slayer, order sol) it is also a good idea to at least test your opponent with it sometime cause often times they will leave themselves open. ex: Baiken v Anji, Anji fujin's you (either strength) and you do the K counter immediately at any close distance you will be behind them, if they do the P follow up, you can airthrow, if they do the K counter, you can do f.S and get at least a free j.D into KD, if they do slash follow up, you can do w/e up until his FRC point, and if he does the HS or D follow up, you can chase and punish, or immediate low and win for free. sakura: yes it got toned down, but bear in mind, it was the best it's ever been in slash so you can't expect to have cake, eat it to, and then take your neighbors, now can we... it still has an FRC point, the stagger is very meaty (max 50 frames according to the AC mook), pretty much a completely free dust (which you can take to KD with big damage all day in AC and for only 25% tension, it's a good thing and it can scare the shite out of your opponent), it's still free in a lot of situations and while baku is a GREAT addition (will cover in a second), there are still purposes for the sakura. ex: Baiken v Potemkin, sure anything will get you killed against pot, so sakura is your switch up for baku or ouren, 25% tension = dust combo, it still has invulnerability to go through some pokes, and I just love the mind games off of the stagger (opinion, not stated as fact)... baku: it hits hard, the combo potential is strong, FB's hit like supers so it will stop super armor moves ( hammerfall, judge gauntlet), and the seals are STRONG AS HELL, people always talk theoreticals in gear, have you ever seen another Baiken with no jump or dash, and no slash? It is not pretty. ex: Baiken v Sol, standard situation, you bait VV, and punish with Baku, you get a free combo, or you can hit with the second part and seal it so he can't VV you with one of his buttons, dash at you or jump... I just wanted to post up my opinion, as far as tiers go, I don't think in terms of one is better than another, I think one is a guaranteed hit in a situation, or I think of what I can do to fuck with my opponent as they put ME in guard stun (I love my bitch)...

stephane in the new gamechariot vids is illinois' own Afrika or Bastif... check that shite...

holy Jesus titty fucking christ, I have an entire mind filled with shite that I would LOVE to say to get my ass kicked off this board because it's clear yall niggas can see about as far past your own nose as Mr. Magoo, but I really really don't know what to say... yea, people have to be bad to fall for gimmicks, what do you classify as a gimmick? Is dust a gimmick, most everyone in the game has a more deceptive faster overhead, so that clearly makes dust a gimmick. I'ma have to go out fucking Dennis Green style in this bitch "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME" so they give you another thing that people have to think about, and this is a fucking bad thing? Sure it isn't fucking tatami FRC, but YSZ isn't as versatile a move as tatami so that's unrealist expectations, if they were to make it so you can get YSZ FRC tatami air combos, they would have to make the FRC arbitrary in the middle of the move and as far as I know, there isn't a SINGLE move like that in GGXX, if someone can name one (an arbitrary FRC in the middle of the move catering to a ridiculously specific setup) then lemme know cause I would love to be wrong about that. Now am I saying it's the most useful thing ever, of course not, but am I saying it has uses, YES FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD YES, THERE WILL INVARIABLY BE USES FOR THIS MOVE HAVING AN FRC. That being said, once I'm in Chicago, a big giant "fuck you" to the boards, because I learned in my times at RC, if niggas wanna be stupid, you WON'T be able to tell a nigga "the world isn't flat" when there are 12 million other dumb niggas in that cats ear... ah, what the hell, FUCK YOU!!!! :vbang: PS It's clear niggas here nut ride fucking Japan harder than a pair of Fruit of the Loom underwear, so a nigga there trying to find a use for it, LEARN A LESSON DUMBASSES

why must everyone hate so hard, most peoples don't have it yet and yall are already shitting in peoples cereal, how bout ya hold your tongue, and try and add something strat wise, cause there is a lot of potential for an air feign for Baiken, yall just gotta make it your own, ya know? (also, damn)

yall gotta have some imagination with it, you are prolly able to do some funny things like jump in j.P-S-D (blocked, FRC) j.S YSZ (FRC) AD tatami, I'm just spit balling, what I am saying, it's a good thing to have, it's a tick throw, do air combo j.S YSZ (FRC) air throw, or you could do some shite like 2D (KD) jump tatami FRC AD YSZ (FRC) (non crossup) fall j.HS land 5HS - tatami j.P-S-D , or there might be a way to do TK YSZ FRC j.K JC j.HS falling tatami, or something like that, people hate but realize there's potential there, that's what I'm saying... we ain't scratched the surface yet

there's soo much gimmick potential for YSZ FRC, it's killing me yall saying what yall saying, it's such an awesome setup, and I think it'd be possible to do j.HS YSZ (FRC) j.S-D AD j.S-D type of shite, yall gotta think about it :D NIGGA AMPED (fucked other characters, I'm rockin my bitch in AC, so be ready)

new gamechariot matches, someone post up the names cause the baiken is in Kanji, also, has some sick fucking tricks and good all around play though he obviously has some character wholes or he wouldn't of froze up like he did against that Eddie player (sa-ji), shite, almost had Kaqn's OS and that's damn impressive...

yo Ky ppls, the vid links seem to not be working for me...

new gamechariot matches http://www.gamechariot.com/06frame_main.html pondo(ky) v ringoo(sl) vol 1 fi~na(ed) v ringoo(sl) vol 1 fi~na(ed) v ringoo(sl) vol 2 mausu(so) v ringoo(sl) waizu(jo) v ringoo(sl) pondo(ky) v ringoo(sl) vol 2 hatoimo(os) v ringoo(sl) (see, I added the translations so don't bust my balls)

ok, serious question here, a good friend and local dizzy player has brought up the fact that he still hasn't seen a movie of Dizzy winning in AC, I'm sure there are some out there, but I mean recent... edit: Dizzy wins a couple in one of the recent tourney vid posts, but I am still wondering how many wins ppl have seen in Dizzy vids in AC....

you can actually see the 2D, to counter it, you have to do it later anyhow to hit his recovery so if you see gunflame, BB, or BR, you can buffer K counter and punish gunflame (non FRC), and be at neutral if he BB or BR's, even if Sol blocks 6K you get +2 on block, which means your 5 frame 2K will beat almost anything he does (it will beat standing K, but will lose to random ass VV). Yes the 6K beating 2D is situational but there are very few things that beat something else 100% of the time, especially amont certain characters, like Baiken so yes it's situational, oh know, you have to think, how cruel. There are situations where yes, 2d will win, that's why you have to discourage your opponent from using it or set up situations where the move isn't that effective, if your losing to 5K, then don't hang out where 5K will hit you, or find situations where your things will beat his thing, very straight foward.

you can actually see the 2D, to counter it, you have to do it later anyhow to hit his recovery so if you see gunflame, BB, or BR, you can buffer K counter and punish gunflame (non FRC), and be at neutral if he BB or BR's, even if Sol blocks 6K you get +2 on block, which means your 5 frame 2K will beat almost anything he does (it will beat standing K, but will lose to random ass VV). Yes the 6K beating 2D is situational but there are very few things that beat something else 100% of the time, especially amont certain characters, like Baiken so yes it's situational, oh know, you have to think, how cruel. There are situations where yes, 2d will win, that's why you have to discourage your opponent from using it or set up situations where the move isn't that effective, if your losing to 5K, then don't hang out where 5K will hit you, or find situations where your things will beat his thing, very straight foward.

here's my personal 2 cents for the record, Pot: rushdown is good, don't make mistakes, p buster hurts, if you face an IB Pot player he can p buster you for free after j.HS - tatami and if it's not done in the corner, it can be backdashed regardless of IB or no = free pot buster so it's pretty risky. Sol: he can't just "stick out 2D with no ill effect" as some people seem to believe, it's space dependent for the most part, you can catch him on the tail end of his counter if you do a late sakura (not for combo reasons, just for knockdown and advantage), from a far range 6K will CH it, or you can just play a spacing game prediction wise with 6HS. Uppercut is just a matter of when you expect your opponent to do it (which can be a good portion of the time) and you can really bait it out and hit them hard, you'll make it harder for your opponent to want to DP than just take the rushdown at wakeup without the risk of eating big damage for DPing. Ino: I personally think Ino has a hard ass time of this matchup in general just because of the great options Baiken has once blocking, free note rushdown isn't guaranteed even if it's meaty, once she actually starts doing things, counters are scary (as long as your D skillz are to the point where you can at least get that initial block in on Ino), I personally think Tatami can control space far better than any of Ino's moves to the contrary, and let's not forget the fact that she just can't use chemical love as a poke against Baiken because she is just flat out too short. random extra matchup- Robo Ky: he likes going low with 2K, she can 6K and hurt him on the stagger (while keeping in mind HS executes in 4 frames and on counter gives him a great guessing game), she can run under air missiles, if your opponent thinks to do 2HS as anti air as a prediction tool, you can get free 6HSs but there are still plenty of things that make this matchup hard, like trying to out poke them with f.S or 6P from Robo being out, just try hard to avoid oki situations from Robo because that is where he can make a living.

here's my personal 2 cents for the record, Pot: rushdown is good, don't make mistakes, p buster hurts, if you face an IB Pot player he can p buster you for free after j.HS - tatami and if it's not done in the corner, it can be backdashed regardless of IB or no = free pot buster so it's pretty risky. Sol: he can't just "stick out 2D with no ill effect" as some people seem to believe, it's space dependent for the most part, you can catch him on the tail end of his counter if you do a late sakura (not for combo reasons, just for knockdown and advantage), from a far range 6K will CH it, or you can just play a spacing game prediction wise with 6HS. Uppercut is just a matter of when you expect your opponent to do it (which can be a good portion of the time) and you can really bait it out and hit them hard, you'll make it harder for your opponent to want to DP than just take the rushdown at wakeup without the risk of eating big damage for DPing. Ino: I personally think Ino has a hard ass time of this matchup in general just because of the great options Baiken has once blocking, free note rushdown isn't guaranteed even if it's meaty, once she actually starts doing things, counters are scary (as long as your D skillz are to the point where you can at least get that initial block in on Ino), I personally think Tatami can control space far better than any of Ino's moves to the contrary, and let's not forget the fact that she just can't use chemical love as a poke against Baiken because she is just flat out too short. random extra matchup- Robo Ky: he likes going low with 2K, she can 6K and hurt him on the stagger (while keeping in mind HS executes in 4 frames and on counter gives him a great guessing game), she can run under air missiles, if your opponent thinks to do 2HS as anti air as a prediction tool, you can get free 6HSs but there are still plenty of things that make this matchup hard, like trying to out poke them with f.S or 6P from Robo being out, just try hard to avoid oki situations from Robo because that is where he can make a living.