ehuangsan

I guess there is no bacon in norcal.

To be fair, I haven't tested this in training mode since I don't have the game and now that I think about this more, I don't know why this should work. I had just assumed it was the same again as it was in #R and XX where Ky can definitely gold burst immediately if Baiken tries to sakura out of the 3H but I just realized that #R and XX had slower Sakuras to which hitstop was not a factor. It could be that people are just screwing up against me, but I have seen the second hit of the 3H hit Baiken out of her guard cancels and I have gold bursted through a guard cancel, thereby convincing all Baikens around here to stop guard canceling against the 3H. If they did frame perfect guard cancel on the second hit, then I don't know. Maybe each individual hit of Ky's 3H has wacky hit stop? Test it out and let me know because now I am curious.

Sakura can hit Ky on max range 3H but that should only happen if Ky is doing it wrong. The problem is Sakura isn't strike invincible and it takes 10F to come out, so what you can do is time the 3HS so that the tail end of the animation(last 6-7 frames or so, dunno the actual numbers) hits Baiken on oki. If you do it right, the first and second hits of the 3HS will hit in very rapid succession instead of the normal slight pause in between both, or if you so choose, only the second hit attacks her. The timing is the similar to doing 3HS on Baiken as she's getting up and doing a wakeup super, where the 3HS completely whiffs through the invincibility of Baiken's wakeup super and allows Ky to block. Baiken cannot sakura the first hit because the second hit will strike her and actually win if timed right. If she sakuras the second hit, Ky has <10 frames of recovery so he can block. People much sharper than I am will actually buffer a VT/RTL/gold burst through a second hit whiff to punish the ensuing whatever, as the whiff automatically implies that Baiken is doing something that doesn't involve blocking.

Only if you are playing games that are older than yourself. Like Starcon 2 or ST.

If Ky does the 3H oki right, he can block before any of the guard cancels, including Sakura, hits him.

Some early impressions: - I think Ky getting draw odds on Sol may be correct now because Sol does less damage on average than he did in AC and Ky does more damage on average than in AC, so it makes it a harder fight on the Sol side. - I also don't understand why OS gets draw odds on Ky; this is one of my more commonly played matchups now and it seems like it's fairly bad for OS. Jump HS can now be stuffed by 6P, which is huge as OS is now forced to play the ground game at a disadvantage. My initial take would be 6-4 Ky. - Zappa - Ky seems to be 6-4 Zappa, though I can accept that there may be tech out there that I don't know of that keeps it at 5.5-4.5. Zappa now has tools against Ky jump HS, which was one of the biggest reasons why Ky was even against Zappa, and corner sword katame is stupidly good against Ky's wide crouching hitbox. - Ky - Baiken may be evenish now, as Baiken cannot refute 3HS with guard cancel so Ky gets meaningful oki against Baiken now and because Ky does more damage now. At least that was what keep the matchups evenish or even in Ky's favor in XX and #R.

Ky v. May At one point this was my most common matchup and I must have played it hundreds of times already. This is where I disagree with the rest of the forum which thinks it's 6-4+ in Ky's favor. I think it's either even or 5.5-4.5 in favor of May, simply because May's life lead does not really matter and Ky is compelled to play a very active game throughout the entire round. Ky will hit out May a lot from the ground and refute maybe 60-70% of May's attempts, but May can also initiate an offense from pretty much anything and guessing wrong once leads to damage or even instant loss. And per my rule of Ky matchups, if Ky is compelled to do things in a match and cannot just simply sit back and choose to do nothing then Ky is at a disadvantage, though I can believe that the matchup is actually even. Strategy-wise, it's a pretty typical Ky matchup in that Ky is trying to hold back the tide versus the tide breaking through. This matchup also requires a lot of theoretical knowledge on Ky's part to memorize what pokes to use against what and when, kinda like learning Dhalsim in alpha 3 to correctly anti-air and play against every other character. Neutral This is probably the hardest part of the matchup. Luckily Ky has the advantage on the ground with 5S, 2S -> 5HS, 6P and ground SE. Ky is looking to deny May from initiating any offense by staying on the ground and using his superior pokes to keep May honest. Jump backward kicks keep May from airdashing in. May will be looking for an opening to either 6P, dolphin, FB dolphin, 3K or IAD S, HS. The IAD S -> HS is very dangerous especially if you use the ground SE a little too much, since you will pretty much lose 40% life from the ensuing combo. FB dolphin also allows May a way in on block and it is more or less impossible to stop, so you have to keep an eye as to when she can do it and avoid blocking the FB dolphin. Ky can seal out all of May's air attempts if he can react to them, but it is very specific as to when you need to 6P versus VT versus jump backward k/s, or block or other anti-air. This requires a lot of practice, and sometimes you will do it wrong and get counterhit into the air for 60% life. That being said, for this matchup if you are not sure what is going on then default to block because getting hit is just so bad against May. Also keep a mental tally as to how many counterhits you have taken in the match. If you take more than one counter hit whale/jump 2HS, or one counter hit 6P then you may get dizzy on the next counterhit or even overhead kiss so you have to concentrate on running away and avoid getting hit for several game seconds to reset the stun counter. Offense May doesn't really have good defensive tools so Ky can put May into standard Ky katame. However, some special care needs to be given to the zero frame whale if May is in the corner, because you can die from it from full life if it counterhits and May has tension left over. It's better to let her go and play the neutral than risk getting hit by something stupid. There's also a lot of May specific combos that one should learn as May is very floaty. Defense Once May has an in, she is trying to find a way to send you into the air or go for a 6P/overhead kiss mixup. The problem is that you will have to keep defense rather honest and look for a safe way out. However, there are some hard refutations that should be memorized: Strings into 5D are not legitimate and you should practice punishing them on reaction with a run/walk up 6P or 2D into combo. Any non-FRCed blocked dolphin is punishable by 2D into HS SE or sacred edge, depending on the distance. Air dolphin can be refuted by SVT, and can be used as a hard call out against a whiff air dolphin -> overhead kiss attempt. Strings into charge 6P can be refuted by stutter step HS VT, 6P or RT if you are sharp enough to react to it, otherwise just block. Jump knees can also be refuted by SVT, which can counterhit into an air combo. This match at 10:10 gives a very good idea of how Ky needs to stay perpetually active to win. Basically this matchup requires lots and lots of practice and memorization, which is why this match video looks so strange as if both sides are doing very random call outs.

Maybe we should throw Star Control in the loop if Lord Raptor shows up. Epic lulz have occurred literally every time he has touched the game.

Brett: Fred may throw another Caliburst that weekend; dunno if he has a venue yet. Maybe you should talk to him since your place is big enough.

I'll try to come in the afternoon. I guess I should eventually move somewhere that's not like in the middle of nowhere from everybody not named YAT :P.

I'll try and see if I can make it as I dunno how Sat will play out, but damn you live hella far away from me :/

So who is hosting on Saturday? Brett or KBNova?

As Essay noted, execution risk is a major component in FGs even at the top levels, and factoring in reward for executing something really difficult for some situation versus risk of death should one shank the execution is fairly basic. Even Daigo refrains from DPing/parrying during some loose blockstrings where he almost certainly knows what the next poke is, unless he feels like he has no choice (see the infamous KO/Daigo 3S vids).

Yeah, the Final Showdown Ky vids are dope, as they always are. They are always filled with Final Showdown only combos, as in FS may literally be the only person in the world who can do them consistently. Not even the Japanese do 2D > HS SE FRC> 6HS. That shit must be a one frame link or something.

Don't think I can go to Rebel up, and a maybe on the casuals for Sat, depending on how various things play out on Sat.

I agree with this. Character specific macro ban is not an answer because other characters then get to use the glitch to have access to things that the Justice player is not allowed. I can already think of Ky doing a perpetual FB greed sever/block option select to call out all lows in a block string without having to think or predict them, which strikes me as dumb. Whereas if I didn't have a macro I could only attempt that once in a blockstring so I would actually have to call it out. Why would I be allowed to do that whereas Justice can't use the glitch to do her stuff? On a personal level it doesn't matter to me either way since I'm semi-retired and playing only for fun nowadays anyway; just be consistent in allowing them/not allowing them and keeping in mind that we will be playing a different game from Japan if they are allowed.

So now I have a question since I have not been following the majors for some time. I assume US/Europe still fields teams for SBO from tourney qualifiers, so what happens when a pad player qualifies? Do they simply not go, or do they end up committing epic fail when they're forced to play on arcade cab with no macros? The transition from US Happ stick to Japanese was very rough back in my day; I imagine that it would be worse for pad+macro -> Japanese arcade cab.

Assuming macros are going to be allowed, I just suddenly thought of some really dumb option selects for Ky that I want to test out. Guess I'll try it at the next dogfight.

Think of it this way. Your available inputs for an arcade cab are the directionals (1-9) and P, K, S, HS, D. To have a P+K+S input, you have to press P+K+S together; you don't have the option of just having one button bound to it. Pad also has the same inputs as the arcade cab, but since there are more buttons available, you can have a button mapped to say P+K+S, which is a button that isn't available on the arcade cab. Like in the CvS2 example, even if it doesn't change anything gameplay wise it's still an extra option that is not available on the arcade so the rules and the game become inconsistent between the Japanese and the US scene. The CvS2 US scene chose to keep the rules the same as the Japanese scene since Japan was considered to be the standard and banned all button macros. I actually do shank hitting three buttons together on stick more often than I should because I have old man hands. EDIT: And yes LOL at the hitbox, and I recognize that I am probably in the minority when I say that nonsense should be banned, especially for games like SSVSP where you all of a sudden gain options that are theoretically possible but physically impossible on stick or pad.

No because sans the custom button binding macros theres nothing you can't do on a pad that you couldn't do on the arcade cab. You don't have a one button RC or FD on an arcade cab.

ITT we see the divide between people who have played for 10+ years (anti-macro) versus people who have not. When I would sometimes play on pad back in the day, I would also assume that macros were banned and not use them, and I think most of the older players would have assumed the same. The point of banning macros in the past was for consistency for all the majors like SBO (still arcade cab), MWC, Evo, etc, and allows for the Japanese to come and play here under the game rules that they are use to. At the time, most people played in arcades and not on console, and Evo used to be run on arcade cabs only so people did not have button mapping available. I understand that times have changed, but you still need to look at what should be the standard ruleset in view of the other majors and scenes out there, especially Japan since the Japanese have the biggest scene and are gracious enough to come to the US or other places to play. In this case, because Japan tournament rules (arcade cab) should be the standard for GG, macros should just simply be banned and they should have been banned. I dunno why they were ever allowed during the time when I completely retired from fighting games. Like I mentioned previously, CvS2 tournament rules ban all macros and console only characters because the ruleset standard is still arcade cab because of the Japanese, even though macros would not change anything gameplay wise.

Star Control 2! Lord Raptor playing 0-10 matchups against people who have never played the game before in a desparate attempt to win his black "liscense" back. Are we still going to do the Desert Bus run? Because someone will have to bring it.

I agree with Final Showdown. I never understood why button macros were allowed in tourneys in the first place; none of the old school pad players that I know use them and you would be screwed in an SBO or Japanese arcade cab situation. In any case, the standard has always been that if you can't do the same thing in an arcade setting on an actual arcade cab, then it's banned even if the glitch doesn't do anything that you could've done otherwise. This glitch would not be doable at a Japanese arcade for example, so macros should be banned even though you aren't doing anything that a top player couldn't have done himself. SSBM and MvC3 are exceptions because they are originally console. EDIT: FWIW, as an example CvS2 tourneys ban button macros even though there's no discernable advantage in having them other than easier roll cancels.

Sure, I could do that but it would be for AC as I don't really know how the changes in AC R will affect the matchups yet. IMO ACR Ky is marginally better than AC Ky and a lot better than #R Ky. My impressions so far are that 5D is now bad to the point where it's almost unusable and 2D proration is bad, but now Ky is a lot more dangerous in the corner and the FRC lightning strike solves a lot of his endgame problems. 3HS is mediocre because it's slashback bait. People can almost auto SB the second hit after normal blocking the first hit and counterhit Ky which really sucks, unless you mix it up off the first hit, which doesn't leave Ky in a good position. It's still has its uses though.

Only old people use double butterfly, 'cause people haven't seen that or used that in almost a decade apparently. I wish I could attend the 28th but I also have stuff going on that time so I will have to pass