logichole

I did have a lot of mis-inputs due to nerves. A lot of dumb things I did were due to that. I have little tournament experience and it really shows in this match. I was making mistakes and doing things which are very out of character for me. This is not a video of me playing at my best. I'm definitely working on being smarter on wakeup. Relying on DPs and rolls gets me punished way too often. On DPs - I sometimes use 623A > j.214D so that on block or whiff, the D-dive comes out and can catch an unsuspecting opponent. This might not be a great idea, but that's what the attempt was. I pull out the B DP for the useful property that it's guaranteed to come out after 3 frames. C DP I try to catch opponents who think they are too high up to be hit. Xie plays a really aggressive Plat - turtling seemed like a bad idea to me for this match. Given that, what I think I need to do is work on my approach with 2A/5B. Any tips on that? I've been having trouble getting in on opponents who have longer-range normals and are content to space me out, and I don't want to over-rely on 236C. Dropping the 6C on that combo pissed me off so bad. I *never* drop that. I didn't trust myself to get the dashing 2B without dropping the dash input, so I went for the easier 6C but still failed. I've been working on my corner dashes but didn't trust my proficiency with them enough to use in a tournament situation. 3C RC is a good idea, I'll try that on for size. I am very consistent in my IAD execution. I do think I'm in the process of levelling up my gameplay. I've had some more time for matches lately and have played against some skilled PNW players (sure beats netplay). I played about 80 matches against Veteru the other evening and for the first time won a match against his Jin. 1 in 80 doesn't sound like much, but I think it's a sign that I'm finally figuring a few things out.

So, this hurt. My NWM3 singles match versus James Xie was streamed, and I got my ass handed to me. You can see the video here: http://www.twitch.tv/teamkhaos/b/299872699 at about 0h22m00s. My first time on stream, with 64k viewers... yikes. I was nervous, unfamiliar with the Platinum matchup, and doing stupid stuff. My execution was faltering under pressure. I did get a little more level headed as the match progressed, which makes me feel a little better about it. Things I know I did badly: over-reliance on Tsubaki's (terrible) DPs to get out of pressure. My 2Cs got baited mercilessly. I need to either get better at not falling for the bait or just getting out from under falling opponents. (Shades of fuzzy tail, I'd not seen the swallow moon AA bait tactic before.) I was eating lows and overheads all day. Mashing to recover out of hitstun got me counterhit because I wasn't paying attention. Too much 236C(whiff) > 214D when it couldn't possibly connect. A few positive things, I guess: I did manage to land DP > Dive whiff once, though I should have gone for the ground rekka rather than the aerial ender. I also think I had some moments where I applied some decent corner pressure. Thoughts and advice? This is basically me playing at my worst, so I hesitate to post it but... that's why it's probably a good idea to get feedback on this match rather than any others.

As a note, I've been intentionally avoiding reading too much about CSX to this point. I find that speculating based on partial translations of Japanese fighting game slang makes it really easy to get misleading initial impressions. I tried to go in with a clean slate and no expectations. Velvien: My reasoning for 5B not being + on block in CS2 is that it was +1 in CS2, and now has more recovery. Unless the blockstun on it was increased, and I don't think the level of the attack was increased, it is at best +0 now. I didn't do any formal tests to determine frame advantage. BatousaiJ: Yeah, the 5B nerf was painful. With more playtime I think I could adjust to it - the altered timing on 5B > dash was really messing with my head. I think the 5C buff is worth finding new applications for. It is a damn rocket. Shockingly fast. atdsutm: If I recall correctly, the 22D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A(w) > j.214D > 5C 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C 2CC [...] was pulling down 5K+ damage. Not inconsiderable, considering the generally lower damage for everyone in CSX. Airk: I agree with you, but I should clarify: air mugen may be a bauble, but combined with ~30% longer duration on mugen it is possibly a fruitful avenue for exploration. If the new BnB ends in the air, having the option to mugen there and continue with j.236D j.214D > ground D-special > ground string, for a single charge, could be very useful. I admit it was frustrating to see other players feeling right at home in CSX (and Tager is actually good now, hah! Good for him.) Here is my theory (or rationalization at least) on why these changes were made. I think the 5B/5C changes are paired. In CS2 5B was very strong, and 5C less so. 5B and 5C are now very similar. Maybe they can be used as mixup somehow (frametrap into CH 5C starter? Pure speculation.) Easy 5C OTG pickup and IAD j.CC > 5C is also nice but not a huge deal. The mugen duration increase / air mugen / DP Dive Whiff nerf / charge speed changes mean that Tsubaki gets less charge and damage staying on the ground. So she goes aerial but has more charge and damage options once up there. She gives up pressure and positioning to gain charges, but... that's pretty much the definition of Tsubaki. Corner damage is still high with charges (with j.236A(w) j.214D). This is all really speculation and initial impressions from me. I'll freely admit I'm not the best player around (I got whomped on at NWM3... video to come.) I probably missed a lot, and I'd need a lot more time to explore combo options. So when is PSVita BBCSX coming out in Japan? I hear Vita will be region-free..

Are you thinking about 236D? 6C (blocked) > 2147D is definitely a frametrap, IB or no IB. You can DP out of it but an attempted jab will always be counter-hit. I will test some more tonight to make sure.

Well, there's bad news and there's good news with CSX. Here are my findings over the course of a couple of sporadic hours of play with CSX, in approximately the order I noticed them: Charging felt much slower on the ground, but faster in the air. It's not as slow as CS1, but mashing on 5D in short bursts all the time for free charge is a bad idea. 5D maxes out after obtaining one charge, 2D after 3 charges. Recovery felt slower. You'd want a hard knockdown to use these. You have to be deliberate and carefully choose your moments to charge. Tapping 5D gains CS2-style gains almost nothing and leaves you vulnerable. I didn't test charge gain via charge-cancelling. On the other hand, j.D charges very quickly now. You can also cancel into it from aerial attacks, as in CS1. Ending a combo in the air nets you a few charges before you hit the ground. 5B is slower. This really hurts. Slightly slower start-up (just enough that at first I was blue-beating CH 22A > 5B, which still actually combos). Definitely increased recovery. I was failing all of my instinctive 5B (blocked) > dash pressure. I'm pretty sure it's no longer + on block. CS2 DP Whiffs are very nerfed. The opponent air-recovers too high to connect a 623C > j.214A(w) > 2C. I didn't think to try the other 623/j.214 variants, sorry. 623C > j.214A(w) > (land) > hj > j.CC connects reliably, though it does less damage and gives poorer positioning than CS2 DP Dive Whiffs. It's not too hard to connect the hj.CC once you get the timing down. You can nab a few charges on the way down while your opponent is knocked away by a j.214C. c0r stated offhand that connecting 623C > j.214A(w) > dash 2C was now a 2-frame link rather than a 7-frame, but I have no idea where he pulled those numbers from. It might work situationally still. 5C is significantly buffed. It's much much faster - feels about the same as the nerfed 5B. The hitbox feels bigger vertically - it no longer whiffs OTG. This should make pickups in the corner simpler than CS2-style 5C(w)C. Pretty sure dashing 5C will also pick up Jin now. IAD combos still work. You'll want to use IAD j.CC > 5C rather than IAD j.CC > 5B for better positioning and damage now. That's an easy switch. (You could do this in CS2 already on FC 6C starter. It's easier now.). 6A now fatal counters. This might be useful - it still forces crouch on so the opponent remains in hitstun for quite a while. Mugen is very buffed! It lasts much longer for a given amount of charge. Spending 50 heat and 1 charge nets 2-3 D-specials easily. You can also Mugen in the air now, which I think has a lot of potential. It's also flashy as hell. I think CSX Tsubaki will be using many more mugen combos for damage. I did not explore this option nearly enough. CH 22D now wall bounces similar to CS1 22D. Non-CH 22D behaves the same as in CS2. 623C > j.236A(w) > j.214D works great in the corner and easily leads to big damage. This should get a lot of use in CSX against cornered opponents. Things I didn't test but wish I had: Throw (RC), 6C, 3C, mugen setups, charge cancelling changes - if any. Overall I feel these changes are negative. Slower charging, slower 5B, and nerfed DP Dive Whiffs really hurt Tsubaki's CS2 toolkit. Compensation will have to come from air charging, more uses for 5C, and mugen changes which increase duration and allow aerial initiation. FC 6A may be useful or may not be. I don't think this is an insurmountable barrier but we'll have to come up with some new strategies to be successful with Tsubaki. The immediately obvious thing to do is DP > Dive Whiff > hj.CC > j.236A j.214C > j.D for a couple of charges. There are probably better things which I haven't tried yet. What I don't understand is why ASW felt like this was necessary - Tsubaki felt quite balanced to me in CS2. I don't like being forced to spend both charge and meter to do decent damage, especially when charges are riskier to obtain. Hopefully when the game comes out on console we'll get more good news as players better feel out new possibilities.

I will be at Northwest Majors this weekend, with access to BBCS:EX. What would the Tsubaki forum regulars like me to test out? Any particular info you want? Unrelated: I just realized that you can special-cancel 6C on block by doing a TK and pressing the button during jump startup. Is this common knowlege? 6C (blocked) > 2149D seems to frame-trap well - haven't fully parsed the frame data yet but I couldn't 5A out of it.

Bump! Everyone come! Support the scene! This starts on Friday!

You can microdash in to 6C~B too for a tad more range. 66C~B is how I usually do it.

Ohshi- you're right! It's barrier block that adds 1 frame of blockstun. I got mixed up on those two.

Don't forget that crouching adds two frames of blockstun.

Update: I'm no longer 360-primary. Dual-modded my stick at EVO and got a copy of BBCS2 for my PS3, so I'm down for some PS3 matches.

Pool 2 here. Cripes.

The 623C > j.214A is admittedly rather strict in its execution requirements. Personally, I'm working on other parts of my game (approach, blockstring, mix-up, hitconfirm) before grinding out that particular bit of work.

Yeah, 236D kills George for sure. Non-D might too? I'll have to test. It's weird though - you get hitstop against George but keep moving through him, so you could potentially get *two* hitstops - one vs. frog and one vs. Rachel. Kinda freaky.

Aha! I think this is my problem. I was generally taking my blockstrings all the way to 6B > 22C and wondering why I was never close enough to keep the pressure on. I'm very comfortable with doing kara throws, but was rarely close enough to make use of that. I'll try that too. What are some techniques for beating crouchers? 6A is really, really slow. Looking similar to 6B during startup helps I guess... are there any other good overhead options vs. people who block low? Against a standing opponent 5B > jc > j.B offers some amusing variations, but a low j.B whiffs against crouchers and j.C is also awkward in that situation. What are my options for getting in close in the first place? 22X > charge or throw > charge tends to leave you quite far away. 236X is now pretty safe when spaced properly, but still gets stuffed by an opponent who looks for it and hits you out of it. On block I'd want to go to 2A perhaps? Maybe I should work more on 5B > dash in for pressure.

So here's my question. I want to level up my rushdown/mixup/blockstrings. What are good options with Tsubaki here?

As a contribution, here's something I figured out last night while fooling around in training mode. 1 charge, midscreen, 4k damage off of a clean 214D hit, carries to the corner: 214D > 5C(w)C > 2C 2CC > IAD j.C j.CC > 5B > 2C 2CC > 5C(w)C > hjc.C > dj.C j.CC > j.236A > j.214C Any thoughts on how practical/impractical suboptimal this is? Still learning my way around the new Tsubaki. There are a couple of similar combos in the combo listing, but this one adds in the two 5C(w)Cs for a bit more damage.

Thanks for the combo list Ginseng. I'm working up my Tsubaki training regimen, and that's a great starting point to work from. Then I can start making it a bit more personal, once I've got a solid game plan.

*poke* I'm actually from WA, not VA. Could you fix the typo please? Totally different coast!

XBL: LogicHoleFlaw (Primary) PSN: LogicHoleFlaw (Almost never) Location: Redmond, WA

I'll be there.

Improvement: working 12hrs/day instead of 22. Still need to find time to play ><

I'm all over the Battle for Seattle. Now if I can just stop working 22-hour days and find some time to practice...

Wow, nice folks.

Oh snap. That combo video makes me feel much, much better about sticking with Tsubaki all this time. All I want is to be legit.