logichole

Glad to just document some of the weird stuff I'm seeing. I hope folks can find some uses for my notes. I'm still trying to pin down what determines whether the 6A followup crosses through the opponent. You can cross through (or not) whether the first hit connects or not, but it seems to be more complex than just button timing or distance travelled. It might be related to how *far you push the opponent* but that doesn't make sense entirely when you can cross through on a 236A (whiff)... I feel like Nanase has some really neat setups that haven't been explored yet.

As a followup on this: It *is* possible to do 236A/B > 6B followup so quickly that the 236 doesn't hit, even at point blank range. For the 6A and 6C followups that is not true - if you are in range the 236 will always hit no matter what speed you press the followup. There is also a chainshift point on 236A/B (whiff) > 6C followup before the slide animation completes. It only works when the 236 whiffs, but you can cut the 6C slide about in half with the CS.

Another fun trick! You know how most moves can be cancelled into Chain Shift on block or hit? Well. 236A/B (whiff) > 6B is chain-shift cancellable *before* the 6B overhead leap hits. Time your press of D D so that the second D is just past the peak of the jump arc as you start descending. The timing is tight but you will Chain Shift before hitting the opponent. After the CS Nanase fast-falls to the ground perfectly positioned to grab the opponent or resume pressure with 5A/2A. You fall too fast for any air normals to come out but you can also use j.236A/B/C, Assault, or B+C float before hitting the ground. This CS point is only available if the 236A/B whiffs. If that first hit connects, the only chain shift point on the 6B followup is after the overhead hit. There are probably some interesting setups based on this CS, especially if wind balls are in play. Also, if the opponent is trying to react to 236X and DP out of your followups this might even work as a safejump. Nanase lands *really fast*. For what it's worth it looks like the fastest allowable timing for the 6A/B/C press is 5 frames after the 236A/B begins. it might be possible to ensure that the first hit of 236A/B never comes out at all. I'd have to experiment further. I looked for similar CS options on the 6A and 6C followups but didn't find anything there on 236A/B, hit or whiff.

Fun trick. If someone is trying to mash out of your 236A/B followups (either because you've been dropping them, or because they want to punish 6C cross-through or hit you out of 6B startup) you can do a nasty frame-trap into the 6A followup. It staggers and you can get a Very Large combo afterwards. You can make the frametrap attempt safe by either using chain shift or by doing 214C after the 6A. If the trap works you can combo off of the 214C, otherwise it's still safe.

For what it's worth it seems like it's pretty easy to connect a [41236D IW] after [214C] in Veil Off. Also simple to combo into a Veil Off burst after a [214C] or a [236C CS]. I can't seem to connect anything after the burst though - the opponent seems invincible until they ground tech. Which is why SKD's combo here is so clever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcfdlvA1Pw4

Ok, here's a full-resource usage combo based on the one posted by Ragnarok F4. Requires 200 meter, Vorpal, Veil Off, and works midscreen but is easier to perform in the corner. 214C > 236B 6C > j.[C] j.B j.B j.2C |> 2C > 236A 6A > 236C > CS > ABCD [5789 damage] 5789 damage, works midscreen. 236A 6A 236C is WAY easier to perform in the corner since it's harder to cross yourself up with the wallbounce on the 6A. If you omit the 6A you do [5618 damage] instead. Something I learned while poking at this combo: [236C CS] always leaves you right underneath the opponent. Since CS pauses the Veil Off drain for a moment you can *always* IW EXS at this point. The same holds true for [Veil Off 214C CS] - the wind blades keep attacking the opponent while you land underneath them, with time to connect the IW EXS.

Eh, it's one small part of a healthy breakfast of options. If you only ever play safe you drastically limit your choices. (* take all my opinions with a grain of salt. YMMV.)

That's... interesting Tigre. They apparently really want you to use Assault to get an overhead. Which actually makes 236X6B more interesting since it doesn't have the same tells that Assault does. So many of my assumptions from ArcSys games are being challenged, I don't even know what I'm wrongly thinking right now.

I'm not dead! Here are some notes I've come across as I've been learning how to operate with the new Tsubaki in CP. I don't know if this has already been written about, but I learned last night that if you just hold down 3[C] it automatically does the 3CC followup at the fastest possible timing. A nice little convenience I hadn't noticed before. (After ending in a 214B knockdown, try using this on wakeup against someone who is expecting a crossunder 2B...) Also - I was fooling around with options today after a blocked 6C in CP. The old jump-cancel-cancel specials work, but a lot of the new stuff does too. 632147C works for the command grab (which is great because the 6C leaves you in range for it), [4]6D > 236D leaves you at +6 advantage. A minimum height TK j.236A/D is gapless, hits crouchers, and gives you the projectile. RC it and go do some mixup :D For what it's worth, jump-cancel-cancel 282B/D seems a lot easier to accomplish in CP. Not sure why that is. It's still minus on block so there's not so much benefit, but there it is. Interestingly, you can cancel a blocked 6C into the blade super(!). The input is 6321469B. And by the time the opponent is out of the blockstun from 6C, you are fully invincible and the swords can no longer be dispelled. This is... really hard to punish. Maybe impossible. I'm still looking at applications, but this seems worth investigating further.

logichole - logicholeflaw - Seattle WA, US

Dang, that's like 2 blocks from my apartment. You should drop by sometime!

Sign me up for BB. I can also bring a PS3 + Monitor (Asus VH238H) + all games. I'd be happy to help out with streaming but I don't know what assistance would be useful.

I played Color #5 (Dark Tsubaki) since CS1, now I don't even have to bring up the color palette menu! Gogo default colors! (With BONUS red hair!)

I can bring one monitor, PS3, P4A, BBEX. (No GGAC+ here yet, waiting on US release.) I also volunteer to assist with the stream. That's kind of my thing!

Found this impractical thing today fooling around in training mode: A Kanji-killing 10570 damage for 150 meter and a burst from j.BB during oki, using a reset between A-Rampage and B-skull cracker. Start in the corner or during cross-up oki into j.BB, end in the corner. j.B (final 5DD staff hit) j.BB > 5B 5C > 2B 2C > 236236A > 5B 5C 2B 2C > 236236A > 5B 5C 2B 2C > 236A (*) 236B > 236D OMB > dash 5B 5C > 236B 236B > 214D 236236D [150%, OMB, 3342+7228 dmg, crouchers only] The combo resets at the (*) between the rampage and skull cracker. Mash DP / mash 5A / correct blocking gets out but it could easily catch an opponent off-guard going directly into the skull cracker high-low mid-combo. And the damage off of that raw skull cracker with 2x power charge is delicious. If you do this off of a raw j.BB (no oki) then the first part does ~200 more damage. It kills a full-health Kanji either way!

http://www.twitch.tv/logichole The PNW crew is having a launch day celebration and tournament in partnership with Gamebreakerz, a local PC shop and game center. Streams of the event will be hosted by logichole at http://www.twitch.tv/logichole The P4A tourney will start at 8:00 PM PDT on Aug. 6th, but the stream will be up and running as soon as possible! PNW has been training hard for this event - come see them fight it out on Day 0!

Sounds like you and I are in pretty similar situations, Shruikon. I'd suggest us two getting some netplay matches in but West Coast USA <-> UK seems iffy at best. (I actually procured a copy of CSE this week, so now I can get my head back in the game. I really do need to get some matches in against Stark, who lives across town... although Stark tends to just whup me in fighting games. Yikes.)

Wonder if I could make it to this... need to do something other than just work all the time.

I could be convinced pretty easily to head down to Portland for some BB.

Feeling a little better here. Starting to look forward to EX.

The transportation question is really the sticking point, I think. A big chunk of the scene is way south of there. I'm in Redmond, and I'm one of the *closer* ones!

Check your TV's settings to see if there is a way to disable overscan mode. Your TV is expanding the image by 5% to comply with HDTV standards. Most digital displays allow you to set the display to "Full" or some similarly named setting which make the image exactly fit the display.

I certainly didn't invent it! I just elaborated on it here in public after hearing about the theory aspect from a few PNW locals. Still, it's definitely interesting technology. The hardest thing about using it for me is my very strong aversion to putting 6C in a blockstring. I should get over that. It's faster than 6A, and I smack people with that all day long. Here's something a bit nuts: 6C > 2149D > 22C~D > (RC*) > 5B* This is a combination of the 6C jump-cancel-cancel into a series of option-selects. For the exact same input you get the following behavior: 6C hits -> 2149D launches -> 22C whiffs -> RC fails due to whiff -> confirm anti-air 5B 2CC -> IAD combo 6C blocked -> 2149D hits (frametrap!) -> 22C whiffs -> RC fails -> confirm 5B 2CC -> IAD combo 6C blocked -> 2149D blocked (not special-cancellable) -> option-selected 22D -> RC -> you are now extremely +, do what you want The key bit is the 6C -> 2149D frametrap followed by the 22C~D option-select. It's risky going into 6C in a blockstring: best case scenario is you initiate from 5C > 6C which is has a 5f gap can be IB-punished or DPed or backdashed etc. The hit-confirm into 5B is really easy - if the opponent is in the air, use 5B. Otherwise you'll have just RCed out of 22D, go do something interesting. Maybe... 5B. The option-select RC really is optional since 22D is +3 on block to begin with, but it kind of demonstrates how you can abuse the fact that RC only occurs on hit, not on whiff. And since you can D-cancel on whiff... it's neat. Best-case scenario is you just spent 1 charge to get an easy IAD hit-confirm. Worst case you just spent up to 2 charges and 50 meter, but made 6C safer than people expect and ended up highly +. But it's all the same input. I don't know if it's practical or shenanigans - it's baiting your opponent to mash out of pressure. Maybe it gives people here some ideas?

Quick note - it's 6C > 2149D is the frametrap which can be DPed out of. 2369D is a complete blockstring. It just crosses-up. (*goes to read the frame data*) 6C has (nonstandard...) 22f guardstun. 214D has 22f startup, and is head/body invulnerable from frame 10-24, so the whole duration of the hit. Since you are jump-cancel-cancelling, the gap here is just a couple frames of jump-startup, and you're invincible to most things during your active frames. I did finally manage to do 6C jump-cancel-cancel into 22C, which is hilarious. Tasty guard primers into +1! It also has 19f startup so could be used as a trap if slightly delayed. The input for this is a huge pain though - I found it to be most consistent by inputting 6C > 282C. Still extremely inconsistent - I ended up jumping out of it usually, or not making it all the way to 8 and just getting a failed 22C input.