WUT

Oh? And when did you point that out? When you showed that it did 3 more damage, or 1 less damage, on Potemkin? Lemmie let you in on something: Lvl1 GB/Lvl1 SV does 4+ more damage with the SJI than the j.HS, j.D on everyone else, and either breaks even or does more damage as Lvl1 GB/Lvl2 SV on everyone, aside from Potemkin. That looks like "better damage" to me, regardless of the "effort" required to get it. Does the game account for effort? Does that mean the j.HS, j.D etc. follow-up suddenly does 3 more damage? No, it doesn't. Quit complaining about the difficulty and learn to do it or don't and do less damage; dismissing it as risky and "not worth the hassle" doesn't change the numbers. Jeez, you're rather persistent with your assumptions considering everything that's been said. Guess you misread my intentions. My reasoning was that you should not always be in the mindset "gotta' max damage, gotta' combo into Lvl2 SV and do super jump combos in the corner". If I didn't care about damage then I'd be throwing punches into my combos and ending in supers, neither of which works out well for you. Getting good damage for the resources you put into the combo (tension, charge lvl) is essential. And you can get even more damage with a knockdown and mixup; it's just riskier than the guaranteed damage from the combo you landed previously. I'm done arguing over this. I've only kept it going in public so that anyone who bothers to read it can understand the options HOS has for combos and (potential) setup and will learn different combos for different situations in matches. We're just beating a dead horse now. If you've got anything else to say about the matter, then do it via PM. Edit: I stand corrected. Lvl1 GB, j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 SV does 1 more damage on the chars that take less damage than normal (HOS, Slayer, ABA, Potemkin). Everyone else is still even/less damage than the 5HS SJI combo with Lvl1 GB/Lvl2 SV ender.

There's no point in continuing the discussion when it's clear you're just being blindly stubborn. A combo is a combo; it can be problematic at first, then you learn it and everything is fine. Just dismissing an option because it's risky at first glance doesn't help your game any. I'm not going to argue with you over taking more damage with a combo vs taking a knockdown and getting setup for potentially more damage next time; things like that are decided on the pace of the match and one option may be better than the other depending on the situation. I'll just ask one question: Are you really having that much trouble getting damage now (in AC) that you absolutely have to max it at every turn? Almost all of HOS' launchers and followup combos lead to around 200 damage; you should never be struggling for damage in this game. Personally, my troubles come from my opponents zoning me, as HOS is still weak to zoners but has a few new tools (5S[f] and Fafnir) to ease the pain. Speaking of Fafnir... Fun with Fafnir (and CH 6K) ((all tested on Sol)): Midscreen or closer to corner: CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir (412366+slightly delayed D), 5S©, 5HS sjc IAD j.P, j.S xx Lvl1 SV. 196 damage. CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5S© jc j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 226. CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5HS jc j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 239. (harder than 5S[c] and more corner-dependent). CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5S© jc j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl3 BRP, 6HS. 248. CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5HS jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl3 BRP land, slight dash 5S© 5HS sjc j.S, j.HS xx Lvl1/2 SV. 262 if Lvl1, 266 if Lvl3. (More corner dependent, but works from the starting positions in Training and closer). CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5S©, 5HS sjc IAD j.P, j.S xx Lvl3 SV xx AC land j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 231.

Consistency? On Potemkin? You can hit Potemkin with pretty much everything. Hell, you can start it with a 5S© [JI], 5HS into the same air combo I posted and do more damage on Potemkin than either combo listed. And you never need to use j.P instead of j.K; j.K always hits on him; he's just that big. In fact, I never bother to use j.P instead of j.K in that situation. J.K has a better hitbox than it did in Slash and works great in the GB followups; just learn to use it. Point being, the j.HS, j.D combo doesn't work on everyone and leads to less damage, so why not just go with 5HS SJI and score more damage? 5HS SJI followup takes just as much effort as the j.HS, j.D followup, so "not worth the hassle" doesn't really apply. However, the only time I'd really want j.HS, j.D after Lvl1 GB is to score a Lvl2 BRP knockdown closer to the corner. If you're learning one combo that takes careful timing, may as well learn the one that nets you more bang for your buck and works (albeit with slight variations) on everyone. LM_Akira: In all honesty, Johnny is the only one that is a little more difficult than usual (I.E. j.HS, j.D jc. j.HS, j.D doesn't hit); May and Testament both get hit by it easy enough without the 5S© and you can get the 5S© SJ relaunch on them as easy (read: hard) as you could in Slash (where it was still difficult after taking them to the corner). They're just like the rest of the cast in terms of variable delays. Johnny is where it gets silly: Throw, dashing 5S© jc j.HS, j.D, land 5S© sjc j.S j.HS, j.D xx Lvl# BRP. Easy enough, comparable in damage to everyone else as it does 135 damage to Johnny (throw combo with relaunch does 143 to Testament).

The manly Lvl1 GB Follow-up: Lvl1 GB, dashing 5HS [sJI] sjc sj.S, sj.K, sj.S jc sj.S, sj.HS xx Lvl# SV. Works on everyone (Bridget and Robo Ky are the hardest to hit consistently, but still doable) and leads to more damage than the j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx SV combo. 5HS is now epic for SJI. Not particularly. Having more character-specific combo opportunities is awesome, especially since his combos don't feel nearly as diverse as his launching options (Admit it, once you stop gawking over linking two Lvl3s together for less damage than a normal combo or combo'ing into a Lvl3/2 super after a Lvl3 launch to blow meter and still do less damage it all starts to feel less rewarding). The j.HS, j.D followup has always been tricky; guess I'm just used to it by now.

Awww, I'm sorry. Did I steal your shine? I merely stated that: Lvl3 BRP can always be combo'd into via 5HS, on both standing and crouching opponents. You saying it works on Baiken and does more damage than the Lvl3 RI combo doesn't really send the same message, now does it? It's a general fact, rather than something completely character-specific. More of a Protip, if you will. The same applies to the other two tidbits of info I posted, less so to the IAD j.P as it is a little more character-specific. Same with the combo you posted: it's merely a generic follow-up combo. HOS doesn't have too much variety in combo enders once he's made it to his launcher of choice. All I posted was a couple general combos for corner and midscreen situations that work on pretty much everyone. But I digress; talk like that doesn't belong in a combo thread . Here's a fun combo that should work on everyone as long as you shift your timing around: 5K, 5S©, 5HS xx Lvl3 BRP, dashing j.HS, j.D dj j.HS, j.D, land, 5S©, sjc j.S, j.HS, j.D xx Lvl1 BRP. It's rather abstract and character specific concerning when to actually do the first j.HS, aside from the obvious having more time to do it 1/3rd from the corner to midscreen and less when you're closer to the corner. You need to do the dashing j.HS sooner on normal/heavyweights/odd aerial hitboxes (*cough*Eddie*cough*), but you can delay the dashing j.HS and get in deeper on the characters with larger aerial hit boxes and floaties. You also need to keep in mind the slight delay(s) between j.HS, j.D, dj j.HS, j.D, as per usual when you go for "Dust Loop" relaunches.

- You can always combo into a Lvl3 BRP from a 5HS on standing or crouch. - You can link an IAD j.P after a 5HS on most of the male characters if they're standing, excluding Ky, Robo-Ky, Chipp, Zappa, and Faust. - Lvl2 BRP will combo after 5HS on crouch for an okay knockdown. Sounds decent, but they aren't easily hit confirmable: (Anything into Lvl3 BRP), run up 5HS jc j.HS, j.D, djc dj.D xx Lvl2 BRP (Knockdown on everyone except certain floaties. Works with an almost full Lvl3 meter). (Anything into Lvl3 BRP), run up 5S© {JI], 5HS, sjc j.S, j.HS, jD, djc dj.HS, dj.D xx Lvl1 BRP/SV (More damage, generic air combo ender).

Wrong place to ask; the Combo thread is where this should be. I'll attempt an answer there.

Guess I need to put it here, since the other topic is going to be closed soon. http://www.sendspace.com/file/w8hau1 Revised I-No (the corrections that were noted in this thread).

1. The combo in question (first one in the Tougeki Damashii 'preview') is possible due to 5HS being a Lvl5 move now. Actually, it's possible in Slash; just more difficult. That's why you only see it in combo vids, specifically the loopy IAD combos on Pot and Slayer. CC has nothing to do with it. In fact, I'm seeing CC used less and less in vids. HOS' are only really using it for 6K, 5HS (especially as an anti-air) and sometimes 2D. 2D apparently gives you a nice launch with CC on some of the floatier characters; CH 2D CC gives you a 5S©, 5HS on everyone. 2. Sol was considered a "pain in the ass" because: - 1: VV was/is retarded, Slash especially thanks to the damage increase which made his already awesome dragon punch even scarier and gave him so much control. - 2: #R Sol had Dust Loop, easy damage off of almost everything as long as he had tension to set it up. Slash Sol doesn't have as *much* versatility or damage, but still picks up high damage off of numerous hit-confirmable setups (2K, 6K anyone?). - 3: Almost everyone and their brother plays Sol (at least in the US). There's always a high margin of entrants in tournies that will play Sol or switch to him if it's double elimination due to his ease of use and ability to generate high damage easier than most of the cast off of simple mixup. Seeing all that Sol can get annoying. Whew. Glad I got that rant out of my system. Now, how does any of that apply to HOS? In Slash, specifically tournies, no one wants to touch HOS. It's a tourny setting after all, can't blame them. And half the others that play HOS had Sol as a Main before or as a Second now. Everyone that's "serious" about HOS, or the people that try to tier whore, have been waiting for ^C to make the switch. He looks much more solid in ^C, so it makes sense that more people will pick him up. All aboard the HOS bandwagon! 3. Any BHB that isn't Lvl3 is pretty much not worth it. Lvl1 has the same (little) use it did in Slash: AC'ing it and as a crappy counterpoke/keep away tool. Lvl2 has decent frame advantage, but the lack of range makes it mediocre for pressure. Lvl3 has potential to be good for mixup, since it covers your movements and has good frame advantage. I don't see it used much, as Lvl3 is usually spent on something else (Bandit Revolver Prototype, Gun Blaze, Rock It). Still, the option is there.

Yeah. Also, was j.D's untechable time increased slightly? I've been seeing a bigger delay between the j.D and dj.HS in the Dust loops in Accent Core, and I just passed it off as me being crazy.

The applications are character specific and mostly restricted to the normal/heavyweight characters. An easy example of its use is from a successful fuzzy guard setup on Ky in the corner: fuzzy guard (j.S[blocked], dj.HS, dj.D), land, run in deep 5S© JC j.HS, j.D, land, SJI 5S© SJC j.S, j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, dj.D, Lvl2 BRP. <-- 235 damage. Better off discussing things like that in the combo thread, of course. Back on topic: Mostly speculation but, given the wall stick property on Order-Sol's throw in AC, I'm thinking the SJI 5S© combos will see more use than they do currently. If you're in deep enough it's easier to land the j.S, j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, dj.DxxSpecial finisher from a SJI'd 5S© compared to 5S©, 5HS, due to less pushback. Of course, it's still character and height specific. We'll just have to try it out once Accent Core hits a console eventually.

That was exactly what he did. He Super/High Jump Installed 5S©. You do it via tapping up just as the 5S hits and then super jumping immediately out of it.

Didn't see what was so top-broken-tier with HOS anyhow. Compared to some of the more insane things some characters got (Slayer j.2K loops and relaunches, Testament Badlans loop into Master of Puppets/setup, Eddie getting new unblockables and setups off of them, Jam's crazy new loopy wallstick combos just to name a few) HOS getting easier access Lvl3 and 2 decent pokes doesn't seem very broke at all, charge cancelling normals included. The vids that are coming out are just proving it more and more.

Yes, double posting is horrible and I should be shot. However, just a small bit of info: it seems you CAN use Lvl1 GunBlaze when you have Lvl2/Lvl3 meter, as showcased by one of the vids in today's gamechariot updates. Enjoy your Lvl1 GunBlaze.

Supposedly (and from the look of it) Lvl2 Storm Viper has an increased untechable time on the third hit. It's unknown as to what else, if anything, you can follow up with it, but getting a super jump finisher like that can only mean good things. As for Charge Cancelling 2D: In Slash you're only at -1 frames if you let it finish (on guard) and it has 14 frames of recovery with 4 active frames. If Charge Cancelling finishes in around 13 or so frames you should be able to at least be in a neutral state (+0) after doing it. May even end in frame advantage if you start Charge Cancel on the first active frame of 2D. Of course, that's assuming Charge Cancel takes 13 frames (it's probably much shorter). Aside from that though, you have a little mindgame as to whether you'll continue charging a little longer than usual, continue your offense, or Charge Burst if you expect a poke. It's dirty. And about using Lvl1 specials with Lvl2/Lvl3 meter: Yeah, it gives HOS alot of leeway on his specials. He only needs to use Lvl3 specials to start/continue combos; he can conserve and manage meter so well now. Let the awesome begin.

You can combo off a CH 2D in XX/; a 5K is guaranteed if you're close enough and on some characters you can even link a close S instead. What's interesting though, is that HOS managed to combo off a non-CH 2D via Charge cancelling in one of those vids. THAT is crazy.

Jump And Throw