WUT

While Dizzy may possess decent zoning tools, against HOS they are generally weak, seeing as you cannot threaten him indefinitely with summons from long range and your options for lockdown are lacking if you haven't knocked him down prior. If you back off and try to zone with summons HOS can simply Manual Charge to Lvl3 and proceed to take over half your life should he land a hit. That being said, Dizzy's assets are her great air mobility and oki. Focus on trying to score a knockdown and setting up. However, oki is not a guaranteed win. HOS still has a few tools to escape, namely SV and GB, which will prove to be a nuisance when you try to mix him up. Utilizing a meaty max range 2K during oki will beat it into HOS' head that he cannot special move his way out of your mix-up, as it baits both SV and GB allowing you to punish and reset the situation. Once you successfully punish a reversal attempt (or two), you can proceed to use your more complex oki tricks. When you're at neutral ground, your goal is to summon *something* and approach. Don't go crazy throwing out fishes, electric spikes, bubbles, and scythes; pick one or two and then move in. If you opt to do this, you'll put pressure on HOS, rather than let him build Charge and momentum later on. From here you can proceed to either counter-poke HOS attempting to hit you/ice fish, or stop HOS from escaping. Either option should lead to a knockdown. Mix up what you summon as well. If you're constantly trying to control ground with fish, HOS can punish with either an IAD or a straight up run in 2D (if you're not full-screen). Thunder spike tends to be the best universal option, as it controls space reasonably well and gives you options should HOS try to poke or escape. Decent pokes in this fight are 2P/2K (as fast as HOS' 2S), 2H (spacing required, but will beat HOS' 2D), and ice spike should you push HOS out and he tries to close the gap again (however, Fafnir will beat ice spike at that same range, so be wary when HOS has 25% tension). I'd advise against trying to outpoke HOS unless you know he's going to throw something specific. It's more in your favor to try and escape (via FD'ing HOS out of his optimal range) and regain the advantage. Thankfully, Dizzy's air mobility gives you plenty of space to regroup, allowing you to try and score another knockdown.

Fafnir in between DLs isn't all that hard. It's character-specific, but if you can throw in a dash buffered j.HS you have enough time to land and Fafnir. The tension cost (25% for 25-ish damage) does seem rather hefty, I will admit. I usually just find myself struggling to get a kill after a standard combo, seeing as they tend to have just a sliver of life remaining. That's pretty much why I find it viable. Also, some numbers: -On Ky, from starting positions- Fafnir, 2S, 5HS jc IAD j.K, j.HS xx Lvl1 SV. (196 damage; end with Lvl2 SV and it bumps up to 215) Fafnir, 2S xx Lvl2 BHB AC FRC dashing j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D, land, 5S© jc j.S, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D xx Lvl2 BRP. (238) More damage and a KD for an extra 25% tension, along with a positioning restriction, versus a more universal follow-up. Although ending the former combo from the same starting point puts you in a bad position, seeing as AC'ing the SV that close to your opponent just begs for you to get CH and die. I'll let you guys judge.

reaVer: http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/hitstun.html There's a difference between hitstun and hitstop. 5H's hitstop effect does nothing to help or hinder when you buffer an IAD. As Kamui Moon posted, the other combos are either too situational or not worth the effort. A few things I have been trying to incorporate: - Doing SJ IAD j.K instead of j.P. One frame harder to do, 5~ more damage. - Throwing in Fafnir after the first rep of DL (j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D). 25~ or so more damage if you get one more full rep of DL in there via a dashing 5S© after the Fafnir compared to a DL without it. Only works on the heavyweight chars, or chars with large aerial hitboxes (Axl, I-No). - Doing 2S/5H xx Lvl2 BHB after Fafnir midscreen. If you've got the right positioning, and it's on the right characters, you can DL off a non-CH Fafnir for 50% Tension (via AC FRC).

.... For starters, nothing about 5H suggests that it is a "late cancel", neither for a normal jump or a super jump. The only reason you might think it is late is because of how slow the normal is compared to others, seeing as there's quite a big wait between SJ'ing out of 5H (13 startup frames) and something like 5S© (5F) or 5K (3F). Even 5S(f) "feels" slower because of its relatively length startup frames, and then there's only 10 for it. Secondly, posting "don't bother getting it down 100%" for something that is a staple combo is ridiculous. Assuming he's referring to the SJ IAD follow-up (even though I think he was simply asking about a normal SJc into combo), there's no reason to neglect learning it except out of sheer laziness. It's not hard, and it nets you consistent damage off of any launch. It's always possible to hit it as long as the beat counter is relatively low (meaning < 13). Since I'm on the subject, the SJ IAD combo is possible because 5H is a Lvl5 move with huge hitstun, not because of some mystic "late cancel". It's the same reason you can do the IAD combo on tall characters. Sol can do the same thing with his 5H, simply due to the move Lvl and hitbox on j.P. The only combos that are innately difficult due to various factors such as opponent height, hitboxes, and HOS' positioning are Dust Loops. Attempting to DL after every launch is something I wouldn't recommend for new HOS players, as you need to get a feel for the hitstuns on both j.HS and j.D. Everything else should be gravy.

Both bazooka oki and meaty 5P can be reversal GB'd. In the case of bazooka oki, if you wait a moment before starting pressure/mix-up you can punish the GB attempt. In 5P's case, you're usually stuck guarding the reversal GB flame and you lose initiative. An earlier 5P (whiff) into Lvl3 DP works like a charm to punish reversal GB though. If HOS is trying to get in from mid/close range via jumping, punish the inevitable j.P spam with either a neutral jump or jumping back j.P/j.S. Enjoy your tasty damage. Just like vs. Ky, HOS' 6P shuts reversal shoryu down. Unlike Ky, you are not completely boned should this occur. Most of the time you'll either clash or completely whiff each other, with DP FRC making such this reversal attempt relatively safe. DP FRC j.S is relatively hard to punish for HOS at that range (I believe only HOS' SV and possibly j.K will beat it out); anything else will be CH. Aside from what was stated concerning HOS' damage output solely with some Charge/Tension, you have to add in the effect of the guard bar being cranked. As mentioned earlier, you'll be guarding quite a bit against HOS' pressure, and all that guarding will eventually build up a decent amount of bar for even more pain should HOS happen to break your guard. That simple Lvl2 RI combo started off a 2K that normally does 120 damage suddenly takes off half your life. That's not nice feelings. Robo's awesome tanky defense mod goes out the window with guard bar factored in. Long story short: it doesn't matter who you're playing, getting hit by HOS hurts.

From the Order-Sol vs I-no Thread, as I didn't want to clutter it up further with more i-no related topics: ~150? Who are you doing that on/how much tension are you spending/what combo are you using? With the bare minimum (25% for the throw FRC) and a corner you can only manage ~115 with a knockdown. Adding a HCL/VCL FRC gives you 30 or so damage even with 40% forced prorate?

What are you thanking him for? You looked scrubby as hell in those vids. Lol.

Don't blow tension on a 5S(f) combo unless you need the kill; 50% forced prorate. On topic: If you bait Lvl2 TR, punish with 2HS between the hits. HOS should only be doing Lvl1 TR for reversal (if at all), but if they happen to do Lvl2/3 you can respond accordingly.

CH 5S(f) is untechable. And it's not special cancellable. There's just a 4F window that you can link an HCL after 5S(f) hits non-CH, and an even bigger window if you're close enough to link a 5K. reaVer: I wasn't referring to that particular brand of pressure, just a general strategy. Trying to escape HOS' pressure via IB, FD and jumping/backdash is much better than trying to counterpoke or simply waiting for a hole in his offense, as there most likely won't be a big window to do so.

AC = Action Charge, aka D after special moves to gain Charge. You'll mainly run into a potential punish for it after SV. IG = Impact Guard. Different name for Instant Block. It's all semantics. Answering constructively to your probable sarcastic remark to reaVer about a CH 5S(f) combo, 66 j.S into combo is the easiest follow-up. You shouldn't be so worried about trying to throw HOS out of his pressure. Windows like that are nigh inexistent if the HOS knows what keeps him safe and what doesn't. You're better off making opportunities for yourself via IB and backdashing if you want to try and go for a throw knockdown. Like I said, focus on escaping, as that is the option that leads to the least potential damage for you should HOS turn his attention to keeping you from jumping out.

- If you're in the corner, learn to IB. Especially things like j.HS. All those IAD j.HS and 5S© jc j.HS can be punished with at very least a throw if you IB. - SJ to escape his pressure. This forces HOS to commit to stopping your escape rather than trying to mix you up. Once he's forced to used tools like j.P spam to drag you back down, or dashing 5HS/air throw attempts, you can find better openings with which to counterpoke/escape his offense. - Definitely more reversal-safe oki. A deep j.K/j.S will suffice in baiting both reversal SV and GB. If you bait SV, punish with j.P into combo or, if you aren't worried about AC FRC/he has a penchant for doing SV AC, punish with 6HS. Bait reversal GB(Lvl1) and dash toward HOS, then punish. It's much riskier trying to punish a baited reversal Lvl2/3 GB, so I wouldn't bother. - Less HCL. HOS can dash under it. He can actually dash forward and 6P through it, hitting you, if he's close enough. Only HCL if you are within range to punish Manual Charge or ACs from further out.

As far as tensionless abare damage goes, Lvl2 RI is your best friend. Random normal xx Lvl2 RI, dashing 5S© into Dust Loop in the corner is the most damage you're going to get without a CH. Starting combos via specials (hitting with GB, Lvl2 SV, Lvl3 anything) are a different story. If you're looking to spend tension for your combo, don't bother with Lvl2 RI. RC'ing it isn't worth the damage unless you absolutely need it, and you're in a much better position spending tension to combo with BHB (Fafnir, Lvl2/3 into DustLoop, etc.).

-I use Lvl1/2 BHB AC FRC combos after 2D all the time. If you start the combo with 2D into two full dustloops and Lvl2 BRP KD, you'll score ~190 damage with Lvl2 BHB. Pretty nice. Off of 2K it'll usually get you within 130-150 with KD, acceptable for a fast low. -I find that using Lvl1 BHB for combo is usually only useful for going from Lvl1 to Lvl3 with 25%, provided you have enough charge for two ACs to push you that far. 2D xx Lvl1 BHB AC FRC dash buffered j.P, j.K jc dj.S, dj.HS xx Charge Keep Lvl1 SV AC. Damage is mediocre, but the safe jump to Lvl3 is nice. -On Testament, Robo-Ky, and Pot you can take a 2D xx Lvl1 BHB into a relaunch from a dash buffered j.P/j.K, j.S, j.D. -If you land the 2D xx Lvl1 BHB real deep you can link a 5S© after the FRC. Your strongest follow-up to Lvl1 BHB, but the most situational.

Not saying I never see it; just that it's rare. I'd be more ready to believe that you don't see dash-buffered Fafnirs after 6HS due to not being used to the recovery of 6HS rather than the difficulty of hitting it during stagger, as dash-buffering a special move doesn't add too much "start-up" to the move, +12 as an absolute most if you wait the full dash input window. I'd also believe it has to do with distance. The range that you'd fish for and score a CH 2S or 5S(f), coupled with the 6HS and THEN a Fafnir during stagger has quite a bit of range. So much that a follow-up to Fafnir without a considerable delay (for a dash-buffered version) would then be difficult. I wouldn't consider CH 2S, 6HS -> Fafnir to be very cost-efficient, but if you need the damage then I suppose just going for that without a follow-up would be viable.

How often do you see a 6HS hit in matches? Beginning of round CH 5S(f) or 2S? No other time to really utilize it, as you have better/tensionless options later in the round. You don't see Lvl1/Lvl2 BHB, Fafnir too often either in matches, but those are easy enough to hit consistently.

Dash buffered Fafnir is pretty much guaranteed after a 6HS hits (max stagger: 45F, Lvl2 BHB has a max of 40 just to compare). *note to Ryan-Bill, sorry dude, meant to hit quote and hit the edit button instead *

Hintalove is right, and the specific situation I'm referring to is a good example of it. Millia's Oki: FB disc, Hair car FRC. Now, if you guard the hair car, followed by guarding high afterward (to block a potential FRC j.K mixup), you're in a fuzzy guard position. If Millia opts to land, THEN do a jump and j.K, she can guard break thanks to FB disc hitting multiple times, as you may still be in standing hitstun from guarding high previously. It doesn't matter if the move/projectile you guarded previously needed to be blocked high or mid, only that you guard standing and are still in standing guard stun. This is why I said it was tricky; FB disc can set up that situation, but the timing is strict.

Fuzzy guard isn't used at least once a match. More often than not Millia will go with the more simple and consistent high/low and cross-ups rather than the more advanced set-ups; fuzzy guard is a product of conditioning and match-up progress rather than something Millia will use as a prime mix-up, seeing as the whole fuzzy guard is lost if she can't make you guard high to begin with. Destin: That particular situation cannot be solved with a simple guarding sequence of low/high/low; in fact, that's why the fuzzy guard will work and a guard break will occur: guarding low after you guard high. EDIT: TB: Could you move this post and the other Millia-relevant posts to the appropriate match-up thread? Less clutter and more on-topic is always nice.

I guess I was being a little too dramatic with it. If you guard hair car, guard high immediately after. The only problem with this is if the oki situation is accompanied by FB disc, at which point you can be put into a fuzzy guard position (FB disc, meaty hair car FRC land, 2K/j.K) for standing up to guard the FRC j.K mix-up. It's still safer in the long run to guard as such, since the fuzzy guard isn't used often and can be tricky to utilize.

You see blue after hair car, you guard high. If it takes too long for them to hit you switch back to low.

I wouldn't even say Millia's ground poking comes close to threatening HOS. Playing footsies with 2D is akin to suicide if it whiffs, and her only other "threatening" ground-to-ground pokes are 6P and 5S(f), both of which lose to 2S and 6P (lol). Or you can just be a douchebag and RI, as was stated. Blocking is always the best option, even if you are stuck guarding 50/50s constantly. A vast majority of the time Millia's oki is reversal safe, and the punish for your reversal is a reset into the same situation. Just guard it and escape once she pushes herself out. Honestly, I find guarding her easier than it seems, aside from the potential double ADC mix-up in the corner. Mid-screen, if she leaves the ground you're either in for a Bad Moon or Turbo Fall shenanigans, both of which are reversal safe. If she stays on the ground and mixes up with 2K/2S or 6K, you can actually reversal successfully. However, if she does FB disc, you sit your ass still and try to guard. Trading with that is a big no-no.

Straight up most damage you'll ever get with HOS: CH 5HS CC, 6HS, dash buffered Fafnir, dash buffered Fafnir, 5HS xx Lvl3 TR, dashing 6HS (otg). 300+ on Pot. Like 360+ on Baiken. Yes, it is manly.

Different wake-up timings make it difficult, but the two most "reliable" (read: easy to time) set-ups for a meaty 2HS, link 5K both cost tension: - Crouching only gives you any ground combo into 5HS xx Lvl2 BRP, AC FRC dash buffered 2HS. - You can also get a decent meaty 2HS if you do anything into 2D xx Lvl1 GB FRC or AC FRC, 2HS (I can't recall which at the moment and I can't test it to be sure). 5K comboing into 5HS for an okay follow-up is the only reason I even try the meaty 2HS->5K link, and even then I do it very sparingly.

How do you know that? Do you think he goes up to the tournament directors and says "no pictures, please"? Or that he shoos away the cameras and cell phones any time they get near him? Did he just happen to tell you that he's camera-shy? Why make assumptions like this? It's easier to go with the more logical conclusion: there are thousands of matches taking place, and only the interesting ones get recorded and posted. Something like SV'ing someone repeatedly and it working is funny as hell; if I was Japanese I'd post it. Aside from the vs. Ogawa match, watching KZO is on par to watching some non-Japanese players. It's mediocre at best. And I'm not sure which one you're referring to with Isa: The 23 vs 23 from gamechariot? If that's the one then it isn't the SV spam-a-thon that was KZO vs. Ogawa. KZO did 5 SVs that weren't specifically for combo; 3 hit, 2 didn't. I wouldn't consider that a prime example of SV being particularly effective; merely that KZO happened to hit more SVs than miss them.

SBO was tame in general. One of the only moments I was impressed was from an Anji player actually; he did a corner setup that I've only seen one other time. No HOS impressed me; they never do. If they play solid then awesome, but anything they do I've usually seen already. And no, your tournament play doesn't dictate your level as a player. It shows how well you play under pressure. I know plenty of people that play very effectively but just crack under pressure. Does that mean they're bad at the game? No. It means they suck at tournaments or when the pressure is on. The ability to cope with pressure, coupled with overall match-up experience, are what make you a solid player when it comes to tourny wins.