[XRD] Slayer Combo Compendium (WIP)

[Wirya]

Dude, doing it with K dandy CWH isn't hard (though you can only do at most two CWHs that way). And you can end the loop with an air combo.

[Loli-Zero]

CWH is hella damage that's why you use it. Off of 6P CH 236K RC, 2HS CH 236K RC, PB in the corner RC, 2S AA CH, and a few others it is practical and optimal or near optimal damage.

I wouldn't use it off of 2HS RC or something dumb like the challenge combo. Some confirms people won't be comfortable learning it for. But at the very least, any time you land 214P/K P or 6HS > 214PP in the corner you should confirm with RC > 214KK > 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD. It works on everyone but Potemkin and Bedman, and is pretty easy on most characters.

Edit: oh and it's late CH 214KK into CWH loop is the bomb. I think that one is practical enough that people should learn it. It does like 210 on sol IIRC. I win a lot of rounds with that combo.

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[fogelstrom]

Yes I know.
I've done CWH loops in training and compared them with regular air juggle combos and the latter still win in terms of execution and damage.
I'd assume the loops becomes alot easier with time and more training but even so that wouldn't justify me changing bnb's and lowering my damage.
Still if people wanna do CWH loops and prefer that it's all the same to me. I'm not telling people how to play just that CWH loops isn't the only way to go and the reasoning behind me not using them at all.

 

CWH is hella damage that's why you use it. Off of 6P CH 236K RC, 2HS CH 236K RC, PB in the corner RC, 2S AA CH, and a few others it is practical and optimal or near optimal damage.

I wouldn't use it off of 2HS RC or something dumb like the challenge combo. Some confirms people won't be comfortable learning it for. But at the very least, any time you land 214P/K P or 6HS > 214PP in the corner you should confirm with RC > 214KK > 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD. It works on everyone but Potemkin and Bedman, and is pretty easy on most characters.

Yeah but mostly at any point you can go into the CWH loop is generally at points where you'd still get alot of damage anyway.
You're probably right that in certain situations it could be optimal damage. I have indeed not tried everything out just for bnb's and situations that tend to happen on a fairly regular basis.

 

I'll compare the corner dmg for raw CWH/PB and edit. I'll also check the meter gain.

[Loli-Zero]

No, I'm saying I've tested them and most of the ones I've listed are higher damage then a normal air combo. They also typically give like 3/4 screen corner carry.

You don't have to learn them, but you shouldn't discourage other players from learning them unless they are truly supoptimal to easy to execute combos. I use CWH as my BNB for several confirms. Not because I want to look cool but because learning the link is worth the extra damage and carry for certain confirms. Sometimes by a lot. They are also really easy when you learn the basic concept of the loop.

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[Wirya]

CWH is hella damage that's why you use it. Off of 6P CH 236K RC, 2HS CH 236K RC, PB in the corner RC, 2S AA CH, and a few others it is practical and optimal or near optimal damage.

I wouldn't use it off of 2HS RC or something dumb like the challenge combo. Some confirms people won't be comfortable learning it for. But at the very least, any time you land 214P/K P or 6HS > 214PP in the corner you should confirm with RC > 214KK > 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD. It works on everyone but Potemkin and Bedman, and is pretty easy on most characters.

Edit: oh and it's late CH 214KK into CWH loop is the bomb. I think that one is practical enough that people should learn it. It does like 210 on sol IIRC. I win a lot of rounds with that combo.

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Guess I have only scratched the surface, lol. I thought K dandy CWH was too slow so I was a lil disappointed after I tried it. 

[fogelstrom]

. But at the very least, any time you land 214P/K P or 6HS > 214PP in the corner you should confirm with RC > 214KK > 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD. It works on everyone but Potemkin and Bedman, and is pretty easy on most characters.

PB, RC, CWH, 6HS, UP, c.S, j.SHD - 212dmg

PB, RC, 6HS, UP, c.S, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD - 220dmg.

You can let me know your It's Late CWH loop as well and I can do a normal combo after that to check.

I also tried to substitute UP with CWH and followups but still less dmg and sometimes not even knockdown depending on air variation.

CWH is always going to win the meter gain when RC is not involved anyway. But for RC combos when the meter gain is on cooldown it ends up roughly the same. The difference is about 15% in meter in CWH favour when you can do the loop without RC. Tried on 2S CH. The damage difference was 4 dmg also in CWH favour. But you need to be able to know it's CH or you'll dandy and get nothing.

Edited January 13, 2015 by fogelstrom

[Loli-Zero]

The first route does 223 if you end with the same air combo. I didn't post it earlier because it varies character to character a little.

Obviously a slightly harder combo for 3 Damage will just boil down to execution preferences. I prefer that confirm because even if they jumped or get counter hit the combo will have the same timing. The second route takes a small adjustment.

When you said normal air combo, I assumed you were referring to something else, I had not tested 6HS UP route. Most of the time that route is actually comparable to the CWH loop (or even better on some things), but doesn't corner carry as much midscreen.

The 6HS route is also better for CH it's late in the corner.

CH It's Late 214KK > 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD does 214, and you can't add anything (or it's really hard) on Sol.

CH It's Late 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD > J.2K > j.PK > JC > j.KD is 226 on sol.

So in the corner the latter should be the go-to. The only exception I can think of is you want to end CWH loop with pilebunker RC 6HS pilebunker for extra damage, but it's likely there's an EW variant of combo 2 that is optimal.

Midscreen both combos are bad. Combo 1 gets really hard because of spacing, and combo 2 gets a little harder and has meh corner carry. It looks like the following combo is better:

CH it's late > 214KS > c.S > j.SHD > j.2K > j.PK > JC > j.KD is 200 on Sol with good corner carry. But obviously you can adjust the timing of route 2 and take the damage if you prefer it or if will clinch the round. Or you can go for route 1 if you have sick special awareness to keep the combo from dropping.

Other then that there are a few confirms where it makes sense to use the CWH loop route because it actually is a useful part of the confirm, and 6HS 21PS is not an option ( or is finicky depending on weight). I would lump 6P CH 236K RC, 2HS CH 236 RC, 2S AA CH, and midscreen to corner 214KP CH 6[6] 2147KK in this category.

Undercover beret found some alternatives to some of those combos that are near damage or sometimes higher, so you'll want to ask him about that if you don't want to mess with the loop. Sometimes they take away some functionality of the confirm though (like RCing right as 6P CH hits instead of after Mappa or not being able to confirm 214KP CH as far away from the corner), so people will have to explore options to figure out what is best for them.

Also if you AA with CWH and recognize its high enough to link 6HS you can actually squeeze in 3 CWH and push the damage pretty high. AA CWH happens often enough that it's a good route to learn for that. If there is a way to get comparable damage I haven't found it yet. But you do have to use 214PK for one of them IIRC, so that might be more of a combo video combo then a tournament confirm. The practical confirm is probably just to go into 6HS 214KS and go from there. Or maybe one rep of the loop into 6HS 214PS but that's still probably unreliably difficult.

On a sort of related note, CWH loops are also optimal to confirm into damage off of 5P AA CH > 6HS, but are way harder and vary across the cast (sometimes you have to use p dandy CWH which makes the link harder). So I think the most practical confirm for that situation is 214KS > c.S > j.SHD > into stuff. Or if you don't want to take any risks just do 214PP and take the corner carry.

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[fogelstrom]

The first route does 223 if you end with the same air combo. I didn't post it earlier because it varies character to character a little.

Oh I missed that it's 5 hits grounded so you can actually add the same air combo.

So slight favour.

 

 

Other then that there are a few confirms where it makes sense to use the CWH loop route because it actually is a useful part of the confirm, and 6HS 21PS is not an option ( or is finicky depending on weight). I would lump 6P CH 236K RC, 2HS CH 236 RC, 2S AA CH, and midscreen to corner 214KP CH 6[6] 2147KK in this category.

I agree with the above except for 2S AA because CH confirming. Maybe you can get awesome at it but just going for the air variation is a simple solution that I'll prefer for the forseable future at least.

Regarding K Dandy PB on CH I can see that CWH could be better rather than lifting with c.S, f.S straight into air juggle or 5HS into air juggle. Mostly for the added meter though.

It seem to mostly boil down to what you wanna do and prefer. I really like having the same combo with slight variations rather than having to go "oh this is a cwh loop moment". Same reason I didn't employ j.SHD, dj.P/K combos into my play.

If Hase starts doing mainly CWH loops I'll re-think!

But it's a nice discussion and very welcomed. It's nice to see some more in-depth checking about this.

[Loli-Zero]

Yeah, thanks for cross testing stuff and for checking meter gain.

Also, for the K Dandy PB CH combos...

If you don't want to do FDC CWH stuff but still need to chase them to the corner you can do long FDC IAD > j.HS > c.S > f.S or long FDC 214K (empty) > 5HS to pick up a combo.

The second one is pretty difficult, but both probably give decent damage if you optimize the air ender

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[fogelstrom]

I did a few attempts at K PB CH but 5HS was really difficult to combo after on Leo/Sol weight so f.S, c.S was alot easier. Ended up with exact same dmg as CWH, 6HS; UP though and meter same since it's RC.

But going straight for UP after It's Late CH midscreen is probably the best for consistency as you said earlier. I played a few matches and doing 6HS, UP after you end up with f.S more than c.S so it's not worth the drop.

Can't you do CH It's Late, 6HS, P/K CWH and loop? I didn't have time to try it out. I like playing matches more than training ^^ But I noted that CH It's Late midscreen I'm quite lacking so I need to sit down with it.

[moonburn_]

First of all, thanks to everyone. I have been filled with ideas all day at work and just spent some time in the lab trying it all out. One of the things I am struggling with is the ability to punish when I finally do confirm.

Yeah without any prorate for the grab it's actually useful with 6D. I'd bet the damage would be even better if you did;

Bite RC, 6D, 5HS, 5HS, 2HS, c.S (JI), sj.SHD, j.PK, dj.KD. In my head it should be possible at least. (Except on Millia, Elphelt and who else c.S doesn't work on). Also at this point even 2-hit DHD might be quite good.
Don't forget any bite combo you could say has 80% forced prorate since you have to RRC it anyway.

I wasn't able RC anything after bite. Either I am missing the timing for the RRC, or I have the stagger recovery set too fast... Even when I was able to get the RRC off there was way too much distance to make up.

 

I wouldn't use it off of 2HS RC or something dumb like the challenge combo. Some confirms people won't be comfortable learning it for. But at the very least, any time you land 214P/K P or 6HS > 214PP in the corner you should confirm with RC > 214KK > 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD. It works on everyone but Potemkin and Bedman, and is pretty easy on most characters.

Any tips on the 214PS > c.S? I seem to drop the combo there every time. 

 

PB, RC, CWH, 6HS, UP, c.S, j.SHD - 212dmg
PB, RC, 6HS, UP, c.S, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD - 220dmg.

Looking forward to trying these, but I think I need more practice RCing on reaction to hit so I don't end up wasting meter. I just end up watching the PB animation going, "sweet it connected!" when I should be RCing!

 

Would a jump cancelled j.214k be worthwhile? I was trying to work it in after CWH and I think i got j.2k > 214k or j.2k > 214214S to hit, but only once.

[Loli-Zero]

You can add either of those on the end to close out a round or something, but at that point in the combo you won't get barely any extra damage.

For bite you have to RRC as soon as it hits so that you are right next to them. Even on max stagger recovery you can combo into dust, but it's a very tight timing. Just takes practice. You'll know you did it right if the combo counter doesn't turn gray

Also, for Pilebunker you don't need to confirm it to RC. You can confirm 6HS into pilebunker and then RC that. Or you can watch the enemy's sprite to see if they jumped or pressed a button to give you a head start on whether or not to RC. But since pilebunker is punishable as hell, you probably want to RC anyway. If I have meter and I think thy are going to do something dumb I usually just let it rip and RC whether it hits or not. Then you can confirm the hit or block post RC during the time slow.

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[Onakira]

CH It's Late 6HS > 214PS > c.S > j.SHD > J.2K > j.PK > JC > j.KD is 226 on sol.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this does more than 226 on Sol at full health. Maybe not by much, but it's more in the 230+ range. And depending if Under-Pressure either whiffs or is blocked before CH It's Late, the damage should be around 250+ at the least.

 

Aside from the damage, this combo route also works on just about the entire cast...which makes it his best meterless corner option after landing a CH It's Late. Everyone should be running this route. At least IMO.

 

Substitute j.SHD> j.2K with j.SKD> j.2K on Faust and Zato-1 and you're set.

 

j.PK> jc.KD can be swapped with j.PK> jc.HSD on Faust as well for some extra damage. But guaranteeing an untechable knockdown after jc.HSD can be a little finicky.      

[fogelstrom]

I'm pretty sure this does more than 226 on Sol at full health. Maybe not by much, but it's more in the 230+ range. And depending if Under-Pressure either whiffs or is blocked before CH It's Late, the damage should be around 250+ at the least.

 

Aside from the damage, this combo route also works on just about the entire cast...which makes it his best meterless corner option after landing a CH It's Late. Everyone should be running this route. At least IMO.

 

Substitute j.SHD> j.2K with j.SKD> j.2K on Faust and Zato-1 and you're set.

 

j.PK> jc.KD can be swapped with j.PK> jc.HSD on Faust as well for some extra damage. But guaranteeing an untechable knockdown after jc.HSD can be a little finicky.      

We should start refraining from statements such as "pretty sure" and actually get down to brass tax and test/check things thoroughly.

The combo should be listed with 0 RISC and from full hp and on 1.00 defense characters, such as it always is. Doing UP on block with FD will give you 0 RISC when starting the combo.

I don't see why you need to do j.SKD on Zato instead? I haven't experienced any issues doing combos on him.

Faust on the other hand... I assume j.SKD is to make him not float as much? That's where my issue lies with Faust.

[Onakira]

We should start refraining from statements such as "pretty sure" and actually get down to brass tax and test/check things thoroughly.

The combo should be listed with 0 RISC and from full hp and on 1.00 defense characters, such as it always is. Doing UP on block with FD will give you 0 RISC when starting the combo.

I don't see why you need to do j.SKD on Zato instead? I haven't experienced any issues doing combos on him.

Faust on the other hand... I assume j.SKD is to make him not float as much? That's where my issue lies with Faust.

Well to refrain, it's 231 on Sol at full-health. Who is a 1.0 defense character. And with FD against Under-Pressure.

It could just be my timing on j.SHD> j.K on Zato that's making me go for j.SKD> j.K instead. I've never experienced any issues against him either.

As for Faust....Yes.

 

[Loli-Zero]

Thanks for the correction. I probably had a few points of damage already on the character or something. I also have never had issues with Zato, but I'll try that combo on him and see if it gives me trouble.

Edit: the normal ender works fine, but I think you have to let him drop a little bit in the initial confirm to make it consistent. There were some occasions where if I did 6HS or UP too early, he would be too high up later, and j.P would connect but j.K would whiff.

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[The_undercover_beret]

Undercover beret found some alternatives to some of those combos that are near damage or sometimes higher, so you'll want to ask him about that if you don't want to mess with the loop. Sometimes they take away some functionality of the confirm though (like RCing right as 6P CH hits instead of after Mappa or not being able to confirm 214KP CH as far away from the corner), so people will have to explore options to figure out what is best for them.

 

Those combos were for midscreen 6P CH :

 

6P CH > 236K > RC > Forward Dash 6H > c.S > f.S > J.SHD2K > J.PK > jc > J.KPD (206)

Works on everyone but Faust, Ramlethal and Potemkin. It's possible to do 214PS > c.S instead of c.S > f.S for additional damage (And outdamage CWH loop), however it only works if the 6P is done next to the opponent or if the corner is reached.  

 

Faust and Ramlethal:

6P CH > 236K > RC > Forward Dash 6H > c.S > J.SHD2K > J.PK > jc > J.SKD (198/207)

 

Potemkin:

6P CH > 236K > RC > Forward Dash Cancel 214KK > 5H > J.SHD2K > J.PK > jc > J.KPD (182)

6P CH > 236K > RC > Forward Dash 5H > J.SHD2K > J.K > jc > J.SHD (180)

 

Other routes involved: 6P CH RC > Long Dash or 214K > Delay 5H > J.SHD2K > J.K > jc > J.SHD (214)

If done correctly, it avoids the red roman cancel proration. 

 

Any tips on the 214PS > c.S? I seem to drop the combo there every time. 

 

You need to cancel 6H into 214P as soon as you possible, slightly delay Underpressure  and delay the c.S again to avoid doing It's late. If you are practicing it midscreen, be aware that it doesn't work if you are too far from your opponent, f.S will come out instead of c.S.

 

Would a jump cancelled j.214k be worthwhile? I was trying to work it in after CWH and I think i got j.2k > 214k or j.2k > 214214S to hit, but only once.

 

J.214K is only worth using if you can kill the opponents with the additional hits. otherwise it's not interesting at all, since it doesn't knockdown.

 

It could just be my timing on j.SHD> j.K on Zato that's making me go for j.SKD> j.K instead. I've never experienced any issues against him either.

 

J.D has to be delayed quite a lot on Zato. It could just be my gut feeling, but the combo seems easier on him if the c.S is done a bit earlier than usual.

[Onakira]

Loli-Zero and The_undercover_beret:

 

Thank you both. I decided to grind out the j.HSD> j.2K after CH It's Late on Zato after I got home from work. My timing just sucked.

[koufdell]

i din't know if that's common knowledge but from starting pos you can do this on crouching milia
cS fS EW kmappa cS SHD for 241d
doesn't seem to work on others testing with P also... 
EDIT:
works also on

ram

elphelt but i need you guys for proper air combo

[tortoos]

I'd like to point this out as well, not sure if it's been mentioned before or not. Since a few days ago everyone was talking about the CH It's Late midscreen, what I've been doing is this:

 

CH It's Late, Walk up for a bit, 5hs, JS JHS JD J2k js jk JC jk jd. it does 209 on sol and has good corner carry. the walking is to ensure they fall far enough that you can follow up your 5hs with an air combo. Not sure if this works on everyone, but it might be another option to try. If nothing else, it's really easy since you have a YEAR to confirm if its late has CH, and just walk up and do your combo.

 

Edit: the J.S works on some not all, if you're finding its not working you could replace it with j.p j.k as per usual and i imagine it works more consistently. does 207 to sol if you do that instead. Your Milage May vary, etc.

 

Edit: one last thing. If for SOME reason you find this difficult, just keep in mind the amount of time you're walking is dependant on character weights, so for potemkin/bed you want to do it early, and for someone extremely floaty like ramlethal you want them to fall a fair bit first. It's not rocket science.

[fogelstrom]

Friend of mine took the time IL midscreen

 

It's Late(ch) fullscreen meterless:

 IL(ch), 6H, UP, cS, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD - 231dmg  ~45%
 IL(ch), 6H, UP, cS, j.SHD, dj.PSHD, j.2K, j.PD - 243dmg  ~48%
 IL(ch), 6H, CWH, j.K, dj.HD, j.2K, j.PD - 223dmg  ~40%
 IL(ch), 6H, CWH, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD - 227dmg  ~45%
 IL(ch), 5H, j.SHD, j.2K, j.K, dj.SHD, j.2K, j.PD - 226dmg  ~40%
 IL(ch), 5H, j.SHD, dj.PSHD, j.2K, j.PD - 229dmg  ~38%
 IL(ch), 6H, cS, fS, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD - 228dmg  ~38%
 IL(ch), 6H, cS, j.SHD, dj.PSHD, j.2K, j.PD - 234dmg  ~40%
 IL(ch), 6H, cS, fS, j.SHD, dj.PSHD, j.2K, j.PD - 239dmg  ~43%

 

 IL(ch), CWH, 6H, PB - 194dmg  ~38%
 IL(ch), CWH, 6H, CWH, j.KD - 207dmg  ~44%
 IL(ch), CWH, 6H, CWH, 2S, (s)j.KD - 216dmg  ~47%
 IL(ch), CWH, 6H, CWH, j.K, dj.HD - 220dmg  ~49%
 IL(ch), CWH, cS, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD - 207dmg  ~44%
 IL(ch), CWH, 5H, sj.SHD, j.2K, j.PD - 219dmg  ~42%
 IL(ch), CWH, 5H, j.K, dj.SHD, j.2K, j.PD - 220dmg  ~45%

Obivously some are hard depending on character etc but all done midscreen.

I personally se IL CH, 6HS, c.S, (f.S) xx

Also for sh!t and giggles on Zato in corner with 51 RISC to force CH and Hellfire
P Dandy PB CH, IAD j.D, DHD, RC, CWH, 5H, j.SHD, Footloose - 422 dmg. So he died!

[koufdell]

what about some 2HS counter hit glory...?  
By the way fogelstorm dat DHD combo 
not so flashy combo hase was trying this on faust(add 5H before the double OD)
corner : CH k dandy pb IA StraightDown Dandy   EW  5H SHD 2k PD 319d on sol 348d with helfire state

the double OD works also on :

leo bed pot ve may chipp

[Onakira]

CH It's Late corner combo vs. Faust:

 

CH It's Late> 6H> 214P,K> 6H> 214K,K> 5H> j.D> jc.KD for 261

[Onakira]

what about some 2HS counter hit glory...?  

 

Depends where you are when CH 2HS hits. What are you looking for? Full-screen? Mid-screen? Corner? 

 

All of them? haha

[koufdell]

Depends where you are when CH 2HS hits. What are you looking for? Full-screen? Mid-screen? Corner? 

 

All of them? haha

if you have a list don"t be shy bro'