[XRD] Slayer Combo Compendium (WIP)

[koufdell]

some stuff i found in corner 
after spaced 2K > 2D  forward jKD will allow fuzzy guard mixup if you have 50 tension
jKD (blocked) > jc D  SDD combo if they try to block low (fuuzy guard stuff hhhh) tested on sol slayer they can't jump if timed right so no air grab otherwise go low or pressuer cs>fs
i am adding that to the undertow game after 2k >2D with yrc OS 2P>2S > air combo if backdash
i hope i can test this in real match soon

Edited September 27, 2015 by koufdell

[daymendou]

Updated Evernote

Added sections for IAD, 2H, Airthrow and Universal combos. No more 7 Pile etc. combos on every character page

Cleaned up every page the best I could

Still adding in combos, up to page 11 of this thread

 

Does anyone have every CH/Meaty 6K > c.S combo written down? I know it's generally c.S f.S 5K 2D or c.S 2D. If you have Standing/Crouching and Meaty-only/CH-only figured out that would be great.

I would also like someone to confirm Bite > 5K works on May, Zato, or Chipp without 1 frame walking. I'm removing it if you can't combo it easily.

[fogelstrom]

I have just recently started my own tech document just writing down some specifics. If you want to take anything from it and add to the evernote feel free to copy paste to your hearts content. Most personal notes in swedish however.

http://tinyurl.com/q558boq

[ShinsoBEAM]

 

I would also like someone to confirm Bite > 5K works on May, Zato, or Chipp without 1 frame walking. I'm removing it if you can't combo it easily.

It's super easy against May and Zato, just press K.  It's not even close to working against Chipp, unless your cornered but it works against the whole cast when cornered.

[daymendou]

I spent way too long trying to get Bite > 5K and never got it on May or Zato. The cornered Bite > 5K is useful to know though, thanks.

Important discovery about Corner CH Mappa > 2SH > 5K: You can use the same routes as 6K > 2PSH > 5K. Those routes are pretty optimal so I guess we have this optimized now as well.

K Cross > 6H I-No, Ramlethal, Jack-o

Noticed this when Moga was in training mode against Jack-o. Unfortunately, P UP/Cross and c.S/2P are too slow so you only get Pilebunker. Probably has no use over K Cross > 5H, which leads to j.SHD or EW > 6H K Pile.

P Cross followups

P Cross doesn't move forward as much as K Cross so P Cross > 5H > j.S doesn't work most of the time.

It seems like at far range, you get nothing unless 5H > K Mappa works (Zato, Sol, Chipp, Sin?). Maybe straight into K Mappa on some mid/heavyweights?

At close range, you can get something like 5H > j.K2K > j.K > dj.KD or 5H > c.S > j.SKD

Between those 2 ranges, you can get f.S > j.SHD2K > j.D on light/midweights or f.S > j.K2K > something on heavy+Ky. It seems that characters with fatter air hurtboxes allow the normal K Cross routes.

[fogelstrom]

My staple on PCWH atm is:
PCWH, j.K, dj.SHD2K, j.PD
There is a possibility you could squeeze in an extra j.D2K before j.PD but I have not tested this. I have just observed Hase and Tanabata/Taka adding this here and there. Besides the added dmg it's some small amount of meter and better/more time for oki.

PCWH j.K, dj.SHD2K, j.D2K, j.PD

*EDIT*
Extra j.D2K is only available as AA PCWH and it's unstable so not worth replacing my own staple for at least.

[fogelstrom]

This is how you turn a fail into a win haha!

http://youtu.be/aeOKjhg_dd4?t=2280

I tried doing IAD Footloose ^^;;

[fogelstrom]

After a couple of hours work I'm f#ck as ass tired and my neck is sore but I compiled a list of RRC kCWH combos with optimized damaged. Note that some characters that are totally bullsh!t comboing has some better variations but they are just too damn hard. Like VE and ZA.

This is some JP level sh!t right here.
 

1hit RRC kCWH (Mappa RRC kCWH)

5H, j.SHD, dj.PSHD2K, j.PD
SI, FA, KY(c.S), SO (c.S), MA, CH, PO, SL, IN, AX, RA, VE(c.S), ZA, BE (c.S)

5H, j.SHD2K, j.PK, dj.HD
MI, EL

5H, j.KSHD, dj.SHD
LE

__________________________________________

2hit RRC kCWH (5K, Mappa, RRC, kCWH)

~5H, j.KSHD, dj.SHD
SI, CH, AX, LE(no delay needed)

~5H, j.KSHD, dj.PKD
KY,

5H, j.SHD, dj.SHD
FA, SO, SL, IN, RA

5H, j.SHD2K, j.PK, dj.HD
MI, MA, EL, VE, ZA(c.S)

c.S, j.KSHD, dj.KD
PO

c.S, f.S, j.SHD, dj.SHD
BE

__________________________________________

3-4hit RRC KcWH (c.S, f.S, 5K, RRC, kCWH)

5H, j.KSHD, dj.KD
SI, CH, AX

5H, j.KSHD, j.PD
KY

5H, j.SHD, dj.SHD
FA, SO, SL, IN, RA (delay j.D)

5H, j.SHD2K, j.PK, dj.KD
MI, MA, EL

c.S, j.KSHD, dj.KD
PO

5H, j.SHD
VE, ZA

5H, j.KSHD, dj.SHD
LE

5H, j.PSHD, dj.(P)KD
BE

__________________________________________

5-6hit RRC KcWH (c.S, f.S, c.S, f.S, 5K, RRC, kCWH)

5H, j.KSHD, dj.PKD
SI, SO, KY

5H, j.SHD, dj.PSKD
FA

5H, j.KSHD, dj.KD
MI, MA, CH, AX, LE, ZA

5H, j.SHD
EL, VE

c.S, f.S, j.SHD, dj.PD
PO, BE

5H, j.SHD, dj.SKD
SL

5H, j.SHD, dj.PKD
IN, RA

Edited October 20, 2015 by fogelstrom

[RoBoBOBR]

awesome!

[ShinsoBEAM]

I spent way too long trying to get Bite > 5K and never got it on May or Zato. The cornered Bite > 5K is useful to know though, thanks.

I do it online against Mays and Zato's just press the button, don't try walking forward.

As far as P cross don't forget if the first hit whiffs and second counter hits 6H is free.  It's not really common but it does happen.  I know you can do some stuff with 2S and jump install for damage but it's less reliable then just jumping and doing j.D loops.

[GaijinMo]

snip

You guys don't use the 5H, j.SHD2K, j.PD, dj.PKD variation on lights? It works easily on RA, MI, MA, CH, FA, and some others like SI and IN with the right timing. You can leave the last K out for the same damage IIRC, and sometimes you can omit the last P (easy on FA), but it's largely preference at that point. All of these forms do more damage than a j.PK, dj.KD variation.

[fogelstrom]

You guys don't use the 5H, j.SHD2K, j.PD, dj.PKD variation on lights? It works easily on RA, MI, MA, CH, FA, and some others like SI and IN with the right timing. You can leave the last K out for the same damage IIRC, and sometimes you can omit the last P (easy on FA), but it's largely preference at that point. All of these forms do more damage than a j.PK, dj.KD variation.

Far down the combo it just adds  1dmg and that's not even certain way down the combo. When you got few hits enough for dj.HD it's max damage but otherwise the old Taka combo is always less damage. We have tested and compared all routes and these are almost every single optimized combo, and it's all optimized combos if you take into consideration a normal difficulty of execution so you can actually apply it consistently in matches.

Easy example against RA.

c.S, f.S, 5K, 236K, RRC, kCWH, 5H, j.SHD2K, j.PK, dj.PKD - 198dmg
c.S, f.S, 5K, 236K, RRC, kCWH, 5H, j.SHD, dj.KD - 199dmg

And you can't even do j.SHD2K, j.P on 5-6hits before kCWH.

[GaijinMo]

The combo does 200 on RA if you end with dj.PKD or dj.PD, and 201 if you end with dj.KD (but this is harder). It's j.PD on the way down by the way, not j.PK.

Also, I know that it doesn't work with 5+ hits, but I was under the impression that more than 4 hits before the RRC should be avoided when possible anyway, as the combo ends up doing less damage overall. Three normals give enough time to hit-confirm a mappa or take advantage of a stray CH. It has been a while since I tested this so I may be wrong on the damage point, though.

[fogelstrom]

The combo does 200 on RA if you end with dj.PKD or dj.PD, and 201 if you end with dj.KD (but this is harder). It's j.PD on the way down by the way, not j.PK.

Also, I know that it doesn't work with 5+ hits, but I was under the impression that more than 4 hits before the RRC should be avoided when possible anyway, as the combo ends up doing less damage overall. Three normals give enough time to hit-confirm a mappa or take advantage of a stray CH. It has been a while since I tested this so I may be wrong on the damage point, though.

Ah. I misread you combo. Indeed that is slightly better. I will look over this against all light characters and edit my list for 3-4 hits. With 5-6hits you get extra 10dmg so I don't see the point in not doing extra hits before hitting the 80% Forced Prorate with RRC building more meter and getting more dmg. So if I get c.S close up I go for 6hits RRC combos but stray hits is more 3-4 hits and for those situations your combos seems to be better. Thanks for the input GaijinMo.

[RoBoBOBR]

Bedman is missing from the list =(

[daymendou]

CH 6K 

> c.S 2D All

> c.S f.S > 5K 2D Crouching: All. Standing: BE PO KY EL LE

> c.S f.S > 5PK 2D Crouching: BE

> c.S f.S > 2KD Standing: FA

> c.S f.S c.S f.S > 5K 2D Crouching: KY (maybe LE?)

Haven't checked meaty 6K yet. > c.S f.S > 2PSH doesn't seem to work on anyone.

 

Meaty 2D/6K timing

c.S 2D > Short Dash > 2D FA

c.S 2D > whiff 5K/Short Dash > 6K CH RA MI (perfect timing allows 6K > 2K on crouching RA MI)

Note that 5K has frame data of 7/3/8 or 18F total, same as Short Dash.

c.S f.S c.S f.S > 5K 2D > whiff 5K/Short Dash > 2D CH RA MI VE

Tight on Venom, but really easy on the other 3. 5K will hit Chipp OTG so use Short Dash

c.S f.S c.S f.S > 5K 2D > whiff 2P > 2D MA AX SO KY SI SL IN ZA PO

Other possibilities: 

Seems like the window for meaty 2D is at least 4 frames.

5P whiff cancels into 5K, which isn't a problem with 2D but does make it difficult to input 6K.

2PP whiff should be slightly slower than 5K/Short Dash.

Long Dash is 6F slower than 5K/Short Dash so there should be some corner setups for BE EL FA LE VE, maybe CH MI RA

c.S 2D > Short Dash > 2D is too slow for Bed, probably because of his weight. 

c.S 2D > Short Dash > 6K is too fast for anyone.

It would be nice if there were timings to loop meaty 2D/6K combos on every character.

[fogelstrom]

Bedman:
1hit RRC kCWH (Mappa RRC kCWH)
c.S, j.SHD, dj.PSHD2K, j.PD

2hit RRC kCWH (5K, Mappa, RRC, kCWH)
c.S, f.S, j.SHD, dj.SHD

3-4hit RRC KcWH (c.S, f.S, 5K, RRC, kCWH)
5H, j.PSHD, dj.(P)KD

5-6hit RRC KcWH (c.S, f.S, c.S, f.S, 5K, RRC, kCWH)
c.S, f.S, j.SHD, dj.PD (also works on PO)

Also throwing in my friends compilation of the new route provided by GaijinMo
http://pastebin.com/62HwePMP 

[daymendou]

So it seems c.S f.S c.S f.S > 5K 2D and c.S f.S > 5K 2D both allow the same meaty 2D/6K oki setups

c.S f.S c.S f.S > 5K 2D > Long Dash > meaty 6K BE

Meaty/CH 6K > c.S f.S > 5K 2D > Long Dash > meaty 6K BE

Hopefully they are exactly the same instead of being different by 1 frame, etc.

Also noticed that the earliest UP -> IL cancel is on the 1st recovery frame of UP, so fastest P UP -> IL is 35F (15 + 7 - 1 + 14). In other words, meaty IL > 2K needs 36-40F timing. We should check if meaty 2D setups also count as meaty IL setups.

[fogelstrom]

Air mappa CH combos from Tanabata

https://twitter.com/tanabataheidern/status/662303737013125120
https://twitter.com/tanabataheidern/status/662303634714030082
https://twitter.com/tanabataheidern/status/662303363753578496
https://twitter.com/tanabataheidern/status/662303811868819457

[daymendou]

A few weeks ago someone pointed out to me that empty K Dandy allows certain combos to work. I was shown K Dandy 2K 2PSH on I-No. I also just did K Dandy CH K Mappa 2SH on standing Sol. Just something to experiment more with.

Edit: K Dandy cS fS 2PSH 5K jK2K jK djSHD2K jPD on crouching Chipp

[fogelstrom]

If you are playing a dummy I could see those tactics work but empty dandy + full startup of Mappa in someones face without getting hit/thrown? Gotta have some mad respect for that.

Seen you hype up 6K so I did some labbing with it thinking it might serve a greater purpose in my repertoire but alas it didn't make the cut to replace my UP wiff oki. Mostly because of the standing CH if people attempt to throw that kinda f'ck things up in the corner for certain characters.

However in the corner I feel it's very valuable for ~150dmg meterless from an overhead starter.

"Point blank" raw 6K, 2PSH works on Venom and May. No need to setup anything just do it. Think you can walk like 3 small steps/taps back at the most before it stops working so really close but not absolutely point blank.

 

6K, 2PSH, 5K, (meaty)    

       j.K2K, j.D2K, j.S, dj.SHD

         SI, KY

       j.K2K, j.D, dj.PKD (delay j.K)

         MA, EL,  

       j.K, dj.HD

         MI,

       j.SHD

         PO,

       j.SHD2K, j.PK, dj.HD

         FA, SO

       j.K2K, j.K, dj.SHD2K, j.PD

         CH, VE, LE, ZA, BE

 

Doesn't work on   SL, IN, AX, RA,  

 

6K, 2PSH, 5K, (standing ch)   (works on ZA but no air combo)

       j.K2K, j.D2K, j.S, dj.SHD

         SI, KY

       j.K2K, j.D, dj.PKD (delay j.K) (*=dj.KD)

         EL, RA*

       j.K2K, j.K, dj.SHD2K, j.PD

         LE, BE

       j.SHD2K, j.PK, dj.HD

         FA

       j.SHD

         PO

 

Doesn't work on    MI, SO, MA, CH, SL, IN, AX, VE,

Combos and list supplied by friend (RedBraver)

[daymendou]

CH K Mappa > c.S f.S > 5K won't combo on standing Ram since 5K doesn't hit immediately

Corner 6P > c.S f.S > j.SHD2K > j.KD 

> dj.KD MI

> c.S j.SHD MI

CH Helter > 6H K Pile All but heavies, needs corner or to be a non-crossup that is also spaced otherwise K Dandy will slide too far

 

Spotted Tanabata using c.S f.S or c.S > j.D2K j.D, some of the characters possible are Zato, Potemkin, Slayer

Should test with CH UP, 2K starter, and a second c.S/fS. Maybe a relaunch or double jump route is possible.

 

If you catch a backdash/jump with 5K, I think the best easy followup is j.KS dj.SHD. Haven't tested yet but I think it will allow j.2K jD at the end.

[fogelstrom]

On 12/6/2015, 2:57:21, daymendou said:

CH K Mappa > c.S f.S > 5K won't combo on standing Ram since 5K doesn't hit immediately

Corner 6P > c.S f.S > j.SHD2K > j.KD 

> dj.KD MI

> c.S j.SHD MI

CH Helter > 6H K Pile All but heavies, needs corner or to be a non-crossup that is also spaced otherwise K Dandy will slide too far

 

Spotted Tanabata using c.S f.S or c.S > j.D2K j.D, some of the characters possible are Zato, Potemkin, Slayer

Should test with CH UP, 2K starter, and a second c.S/fS. Maybe a relaunch or double jump route is possible.

 

If you catch a backdash/jump with 5K, I think the best easy followup is j.KS dj.SHD. Haven't tested yet but I think it will allow j.2K jD at the end.

Am I missing something or whats up with that awful 6P corner combo?

I thought the c.S, f.S, j.D2K was only possible on Slayer. Guess I need to hit the lab... I will post a full list when it's done I guess

[fogelstrom]

c.S j.2KD - ZA, didn¨t get anything to hit after not even j.D. Need to be absolutely point blank for it to even work and 1hit confirming c.S is kinda impossible. Obviously for punish when 5H is not possible if you are quick about your wits and get something going. It MIGHT be possible with a super specific probably 1F timing to get j.S, dj.SHD going but I'm not going to spend hours testing.

c.S, j.D2K, j.D - PO, 98dmg vs 93dmg c.S, f.S, c.S, 2D. Hammerfall punish if you are not confident in 5H I'd guess.

c.S, (f.S), j.D2K, j.D - AX, 133dmg vs 105dmg. Doesn't work in the corner. Second j.D seems to be hitting offscreen. Can't straight jump since first j.D will wiff instead.

c.S, (f.S,) j.D2K - V, Seems like Zato except you can do c.S f.S so doesn't need to be point blank. Didn't get anything to hit.

c.S, (f.S), j.D2K, j.D - SL, 122dmg vs 97dmg. Same as AX doesn't work in the corner.

So in my conclusion it's max dmg vs standing SL and AX if you can confirm standing 2hit wich should be np since I do it for DHD all the time at least. But only midscreen but same goes for DHD :D

[daymendou]

Nice finds Fogelstrom, guess the last thing we should check is Footloose relaunch in corner. Something like c.S > j.D2K (j.2K recovery) > Footloose > c.S > j.SHD

I don't remember why I made that 6P combo but it was in my notes. The standard j.SHD2K route works just fine