Axl Q&A thread

[Kumlekar]

As far as I know, none.

It's not a projectile. 

It won't destroy projectiles.

It's a hit with a hitbox and a hurtbox. It loses to most projectiles.

I have to admit, I've been pretty disappointed with the move in general.  Its nice having fullscreen poke I guess, but it seems easily punished by most characters.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

As far as I know, none.

It's not a projectile. 

It won't destroy projectiles.

It's a hit with a hitbox and a hurtbox. It loses to most projectiles.

I feel SS is underdeveloped for having a both a hit and hurt box, mainly towards projectiles. Again, it can clash and destroy I-no's yet it has no benefit towards anything else.

[Digital Watches]

It doesn't exactly destroy I-No's projectiles as far as I can tell, if you're talking about notes. It's similar to throwing a 5P into a note: Since the notes hit more times depending on how far they've traveled, getting them to hit you really early in their flight path makes them pretty ineffectual. I'll often try to tag I-No as she's setting a note and get hit on purpose, because the small amount of stun a single hit of note puts me in is rather negligible compared to tagging her with a counterhit 5P, putting me at frame advantage. If this isn't the effect you're talking about then I'd be surprised.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

Yes, actually. It's the music note, sorry for not being specific. I've seen this twice, the second time I actually tested mid-battle. When an SS attack hits the note as it's shot, I couldn't do the stance anymore. Why? Because by destroying the note--by clashing with it--my SS was literally canceled, putting me back to neutral. I felt this would give me a recovery advantage, so I tried to counter an incoming I-no (I failed, though lol). A video of my Ino matches should still be in my replay theater, I should look back at those and perhaps show them to you.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

So I tested this in training mode and found out that this scenario gets me countered after all, just that the damage is very little and inconsequential.

 

Yup, SS is weak against all projectiles.

[APinkBuny]

I find that SS is really only useful in certain situations.

1. As a combo ender

2. Person is full screen and is at 10% and is to afraid to attack.

3. Person has no idea what the move is and how to counter it.

4. People trying to stay full screen or almost full screen with number 3

5. People who are jump happy and are also number 3

 

If however your fighting some one that knows that he/she can counter poke those chains it's a dead move.

Personally I love this move it looks cool, feels awesome...ect. The problem is, its almost completely worthless.

[00000000]

Not seeing Axl vs Elphelt.  Seems like I can't jump in on her at all.  Only option looks to be to just stay midscreen and wait for her to do something dumb. I'd like to know some more consistent strategies other than just playing footsies. Feeling very Millia esque after knockdown but on then I also can't bully her.

[Kumlekar]

Not seeing Axl vs Elphelt.  Seems like I can't jump in on her at all.  Only option looks to be to just stay midscreen and wait for her to do something dumb. I'd like to know some more consistent strategies other than just playing footsies. Feeling very Millia esque after knockdown but on then I also can't bully her.

Not to mention that grenade... *cries*

[00000000]

Not to mention that grenade... *cries*

So, when I posted I was having a particularly hard time with Elphelt. I managed to do a bit better over time, still not too confident against her. One thing that helped greatly was dealing with Pineberry on neutral. I'd throw out 5p and either try to catch them in start up or cooking the grenade, otherwise, if the threw it I'd attempt max range 5p or 6k to trade with the grenade. This kills the inertia of the grenade and makes it fall short. Seemed to take a bit away from her pressure,

[KingSolomun]

Hello I just started playing Axl Low and I wanted to know if the guide DigitalWatches made on Axl in Accent Core +R still held up. ( Minus things like FRC, Some gatlings, and moves that he no longer has)

[Digital Watches]

The main thing I'd say to ignore about that guide is the bit about Rashousen.

To do a rashousen feint mixup in Xrd, you need 25% meter for the cancel, and frankly, it's so slow and short-range now that I doubt many good players are going to be scared enough to not punish a rashousen that often.

Also, your meterless KD opportunities are much fewer and farther between until the patch hits and we get KD on rensen back.

And uh, you're a little better at zoning because of 7F 5P, and a little better at getting out of pressure because DP.

Other than that, I'd say a lot of the stuff in that guide still holds.

[KingSolomun]

Alright thanks

[Homodachi]

First time posting on dustloop. Wanting to know more about Axl Lulz made me finally create an account.

 

1. What are some good options for Axl Oki? 

2. Any tips on how to get started practicing TKbomber loops? 

[Kumlekar]

First time posting on dustloop. Wanting to know more about Axl Lulz made me finally create an account.

 

1. What are some good options for Axl Oki? 

2. Any tips on how to get started practicing TKbomber loops? 

 

Axl oki. 6H to close distance and be plus on block. Its pretty vulnerable to reversals though.  5K or c.S into a variety of mixups (5k-3P-2D, 5k-3P-6H, 5K-c.S-Rensen, 5K-c.S-rashounen just to name a few). If you want to bait a DP, 3P can sometimes work depending on spacing and timing, and 214P or 214K are excellent for this purpose.  If you think they will block immediately when getting up, rashounen can work, but its often better to throw it out in a string.  If you're too far away for the options above, 2H isn't bad.  Dashing 63214S YRC can close distance if you have meter, and leads to a variety of air dash mixups and crossups.

 

For tk bombers in a combo, I practiced with this combo in the corner: Throw, 6K(2)-2S(2)-TK Bomber, 5k-2S(2)-j.HD-Bomber.  If you just want to practice the input, just walk up the the training dummy and do 6321473H.  It will connect as long as they are standing (at least this is true with sol).  The timing for tk-ing a move mid combo can be a tad difficult as you are starting the input before the move connects, so that your jump input cancels when the hit connects, and then there is a slight delay before the button press while you are waiting for your jump startup to finish.

[APinkBuny]

First time posting on dustloop. Wanting to know more about Axl Lulz made me finally create an account.

 

1. What are some good options for Axl Oki? 

2. Any tips on how to get started practicing TKbomber loops? 

 

Axl's Oki Options:

Max Range f.S

Max Range 5K

Mid/Max Range 3P

Empty Jump H, 2K, j.P

Micro Dash canceled into Back Dash (DP bait)

 

Practicing Bomber Loops

Set Dummy to corner with the Dummy Jumping

Then you can chunk the Loop

2.S.jc.j.K-j.D-Bomber RC---2nd Chunk---66-TK---3rd Chunk---c.S,jc-Bomber-5K-2.S,jc,Bomber

 

Hope this helps.

[Digital Watches]

Axl Oki:

Safe jumps are your safest oki option: They only lose to blitz shield, and you can vary them to get mixup 

 

-j.H is probably your most damaging true safe jump and the most bang for your buck for just putting them in blockstun if they're going to block it correctly.
-j.P is a later safejump, or, if you know you can do it a bit earlier, can go into a second overhead (j.K, j.6P, or another j.P) before landing.

-j.S is a good safejump from far away, and additionally can be made meaty enough such that only the second hit connects, pulling them into the corner on block and setting up for a potential crossup with 63214S (If you're sure they're not expecting it. The startup is long enough that you can't risk too much). 

-j.K is JCable and also a pretty nasty counterhit if you do it early and they jump into you. It's also a little better effective forward range than j.H, so you can do it from outside of the opponent's throw range more easily, which is important once you're doing mixup.

-j.D is risky, because of landing recovery, but will net you more meterless damage if it hits. Against certain characters with slower reversals it can still be made to work as a safejump
 

The most basic mixup you can do from these is to vary the timing or spacing to whiff the attack (or just not attack on your way down), then go for a low, usually 2K. Once they're afraid of the low, you can start doing things like late airdash to call out an attempted throw (Which will usually net you more damage than a safe jump if it hits, since you can go into j.D more easily). 2K is also a great tick throw if they block it.

 

As mentioned, you can go for a tick throw from a lot of these setups (j.P is the easiest, but with microdashes you can tickthrow from any of them pretty effectively), and once they're afraid of the throw, you can start tossing in frametraps, such as a late 5K or f.S from out of throw range. A particularly damaging one if you know they're looking for the throw is 6H, so that once they're expecting the throw, they end up swinging their OS against 6H from frame disadvantage and get counterhit, but this won't work against characters with fast enough OSes, such as goddamn Sol.

If you're facing a character with not enough meter to blitz and no real reversal, you can go for oki like meaty 63214S or 6H, which can end up being more rewarding or at least lead to pressure they aren't used to dealing with. Against characters without reversals, it's pretty safe to go for 2K as oki (And in the case of Ky, you get to go under his DP if you time your meaty correctly), which gives you another opener besides safejump.

 

Bomber loops:

First of all, don't worry too much about loops, just get your confirms into TKB down.

-Learn to confirm a TKB from throw (For most characters, 6K-2S-TKB. For some characters you have to do the TKB late to get the knockdown. For some characters you have to do 2S late to connect. I think at least one character it's easier to do run 5P-6K-2S-TKB. Practice against the cast.)
-Learn to confirm a TKB from DP RC. A typical combo is run 6K-2S-TKB. Then see if you can get a second rep with 5P-6K-2S-TKB
-Learn to confirm from all your jump-cancellable normals as anti-airs (Against a jumping dummy). For reference, these are 6K, 2S, c.S, and 6P.

 

Then, see if you can get corner throw into 3 reps on a bunch of characters. The most common 3-rep variation that works is throw, (c.S-2S-TKB) x 2, 5K-2S-TKB

Once you have all that down, just practice recognizing situations where you can confirm a juggle into some variation of this. Always go for TKB knockdown whenever you can, it's the best positioning you can get off of most combos. I wouldn't bother practicing stuff that involves air string into bomber: You'll only ever get KD off that on a few heavies at low hit counts and if you RC it and do another rep.

[Homodachi]

Wow thanks for the info everyone. I came home and checked on this thread and was extremely happy to see the amount and depth of replies. I'm going to get to work on some of this and I'll check back in. I appreciate the warm welcome to the forum. 

[Capconian]

So what is the general opinion on Axl's worst MU?

[Horokei]

Venom?

[Digital Watches]

Probably still venom. Could be Ky. Definitely one of those.

[Capconian]

Personally I suspected Ky more since he can lock you down to a point on full screen and his pressure game imo is hard to deal with, plus if you get in, he has a DP.

 

Venom I can see as well, becasue of the balls. you have to get in.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

Certainly Venom. His range game is too much lest you can find every opportunity to harass it. I find Ky much easier to deal with given that he doesn't shoot nowhere near as many projectiles as Venom, therefore I have more breathing room and more ways to get past them and hit Ky from afar (when he's not using Charge Heavy Stun/Sacred Edge). I think Axl has more odds against Ky than Venom. I can upload a few vids that show this, actually.

[Capconian]

I've been thinking for a while now, about why is Axl considered a low tier character, and I still can't put my it together, I know some of the top tier characters can run circles around him, but I don't think he's low, maybe mid/mid low at worse. can someone shead some light on this?

[Kumlekar]

I've been thinking for a while now, about why is Axl considered a low tier character, and I still can't put my it together, I know some of the top tier characters can run circles around him, but I don't think he's low, maybe mid/mid low at worse. can someone shead some light on this?

My general impression is that most other characters have gotten significant buffs to range since AC+, while axl have received very little in the way of improvements.  His greatest strength is no longer as unique, and the lack of a solid long ranged knockdown can make it very hard to get advantage off of long range hits.  I mostly see the issue as the competition getting better with axl staying the same though.

[Digital Watches]

Nah, I wouldn't say that other characters gaining range, even if true, has had a significant effect on Axl's tier placing. What he lost from +R was the ability to keep pressure on and the ability to cover multiple options. For one thing, Kokuugeki was an extremely strong move and is completely gone. And there's a reason they gave him 2H-2D in +R: Without it, his baseline mixup game is kind of lacking. 

But honestly all of that is overcomable, and Axl got a few really nice tools this version in the form of YRCs and dragonpunch. The real problem I'd chalk up his tier placing to is lack of consistent meterless knockdown. It's always been true that most characters in this game have some kind of option that overpowers things Axl can do in <5 frames, so your game is to put yourself in positions Axl wins. The problem is, now the reward for doing that is like, a little damage and a reset to neutral in a huge number of situations unless you have 50% meter. The character worked because you got knockdown off those situations before, and could start your oki from effectively any range.

Counterhit grounded 5P from fullscreen? Your confirm is Rensen. Call out a projectile and beat it? Rensen. Midscreen confirm? Rensen. Stopped a grounded approach? Probably Rensen. I think that knocking down again is going to be important. If they'd give us KD on the dragonpunch too, that'd be great.