[Xrd] Slayer vs. Chipp Zanuff

[The_undercover_beret]

Please use this thread to share your thoughts, experiences and advice on how to deal with this match-up.

[Kicks]

This is my hardest matchup. After this is Ram and Millia and Sol.

 

I am looking for any and all advice or random tips. I lose to nonsense nonstop. It's super rough.

Only thing I've learned lately is try to air block jump ins so you might be able to throw him.

 

One of the craziest advantages is his crossup teleport.

 

A lot of Slayer's stuff requires some startup (6P, Dandy Step, 6H). You can't use any of that unless you're 100% because of the crossup teleport. It's exhausting.

6P doesn't even beat Alpha Blade anymore unless you're way early.

[fogelstrom]

Chipp is just nonsense so imo there isn't really any sense out of this matchup.

The small things I've picked up on is if you can air throw you are going to have an easier time if you can make your opponent understand that you can air throw him. Makes it just a tad bit more bearable.

I'm not afraid to dish out random CWH/PB in this matchup because the risk/reward is favourable due to chip low def. But obviously not spammable.

However the best anti tactic I've found is to blitz falling j.H. Obivously they can fake it from teleports and go for throw and/or low. But still it's really valuable in the matchup imo.

Don't really have much else to add besides that. I hate the matchup but then again I always hated playing flimsy(bullshit) characters in all games.

[CounterHit-DOT]

I feel like the nerfed 2S is a MAJOR loss in this match up! BDC Bite is really helpful against this mofo, but I'm still too clumsy in BDC Bite execution to make it a reliable component of my defense game. But we really need to work on it and masterize  this shit!

[_Sey]

How am I supposed to do anything in this match up when IB 2S beats every single option Slayer has off most of his gatling/normals?

if c.S gets IB'd Slayer's only safe options are a) p mappa b) iad back, which are all terrible or puts you in an even worse situation, even 6P loses to 2S which makes no sense.

 

Our 2HS loses to his 2D.

Gamma blade dominates neutral so much that dandy steps/fwd dashes are just not an option.

 

Alpha blade is another extremely good option, who cares if you manage to block it? the best punish you get (unless you are willing to gamble with dandy vs. his HS follow up) is 5k k mappa, which is (again) a really shitty option that puts you in a situation where he can just mash /anything/ and win or neutral jump jD and punish your bdc bite attempts.

oh, and if you miss time your 5K by a few frames and he does his HS follow up? surprise! you've just lost 60% for trying to get a chance to play.

 

I'm sure it's my BB background that messes me up, but I honestly don't understand how am I supposed to pressure Chipp AT ALL when literally every single blockstring Slayer has loses to IB 2S or he can just mash on some of his 5/7frames normals and have a much better reward for hitting us than the other way around.

 

I don't even lose to idiots that just mash on teleports, air throw/bdc/blocking deals with that stuff/kind of player way too easily, but I just can't do it vs. Chipp that mash on 2S all day, it honestly feels like he just gets to drum over 2K/2S/2HS/2D whenever he's either in hitstun or blockstun (or any situation really)... and get away with it!

 

I am aware of his pressure options (e.g I don't get hit by his (bad) command grab and I often either air throw it on reaction or jump out, admitedly I should jP > combo instead of air throwing though), but I still can't do anything about, if I try to focus and block/deal with his rekkas/pressure/cmd grab I end up just getting 2P/2K > tick thrown all day -> I end up losing my patience and lose to stupid shit over and over again if I'm playing a long set vs a Chipp.

 

I'm this close to just dropping this stupid character and pick someone much dumber like Sol or Chipp himself, I'm obviously too stupid to learn how to play Slayer, I swear I've tried studying the match up and Slayer's/Chipp's options but I just don't get it, how am I supposed to not lose 90% of my games if I can't play neutral nor pressure him?

 

I'm sorry for the rant but this character is just too stupidly strong/safe, his low health is barely a problem when he's got a full screen shoryuken that leads to 60% combos or a +5 projectile.

[daymendou]

Chipps 2S is 7F and honestly not that great. I'll take note next time I play our local Chipp but 2S never seemed like an issue.

cS is 5F so it's hard to IB. cS fS is never a bad pressure string but cS fS cS fS gives an easy IB on cS. Remember fS is +3 on IB so it's safe to end your blockstring there. You can always cancel cS into IAD as a mixup.

2H is very hard to use in this matchup since it's slow. It's not a big loss since Chipp fights at the same range as Slayer.

Gamma Blade has huge recovery on whiff so try to avoid getting hit. During Dandy, you can YRC on reaction to Gamma then BDC or K Dandy, forcing Chipp to YRC. Keep in mind Slayer gains much more tension than Chipp and that Gamma YRC means 1 less teleport YRC.

Alpha Blade is -15 at best so you have time to confirm whether or not he uses Alpha Plus and punish both versions. Even better, you can just jump and avoid blockstun to really punish him. If he's using Alpha Blade to get out of corner then you can't do much.

Both IB and FD seem decent against rekka pressure. He really has to respect 5K afterwards. If he doesn't space rekka 1, you can poke out; if he does space it, he has to continue pressure with a slower move.

You have to accept the fact that Chipp will get airthrows and has much better mobility, so take advantage of the damage difference . If he spends his time trying to dance around you, he's not getting as much meter as you, and a simple 5K Mappa RC punish is 200+ damage. If he's spending all his meter on YRCs for throws, he can't Blitz, which means he has to be cautious with jH oki.

If you really are using BDC Bite/Mappa, he should eventually stop mashing, which then lets you use the higher reward 5H and 6H. If he stops mashing completely, then you get to cS or throw after K Mappa.

[_Sey]

Thank you!

 

Yeah, I got a bit too worked up about the frame gap after c.S, it really shouldn't get IB'd much unless I'm being too obvious/trying to go for a long blockstring (or something equally stupid).

 

Chipp's 2S seems like a really strong normal to me, sure it's 7fr but it does have a pretty long range + stagger, dunno, I felt it was a pretty big problem even when playing vs. a good Chipp.

 

Regarding Alpha blade, do you mean jumping over the follow up? or the move all together? I'm guessing you mean the whole move? eitherway, the follow up seems to have a deceptively huge hitbox and I've got hit a bit too many times after jumping the move and trying to punish with jHS/jD (or jK if I had tried to read it and did something like a preemptive iad back).

The HS follow up is indeed -15 at best but it also pushes him a bit too far to get any decent punish isn't it? I think just doing 5K/gambling with dandy k after blocking alpha blade is overall the better option, I guess 5HS mappa RRC is indeed a pretty big punish if you end up blocking alpha blade's follow up.

 

Yeah, rekka pressure isn't too much of a problem, a bad Chipp won't space it well/not care about IB/FD so 5K will often get Slayer out of it, vs. a good Chipp I did get my 5K whiff punished a couple times with 2D though... I don't remember the exact sequence/wtf I was doing, I'll have to check a couple of replays.

 

Is BDC <something> any good vs. jH oki? I think BDC sj should get Slayer out but with how ambiguous that setup is I guess that it's pretty easy to get the bdc input crossed up and get hit -> back to the blender.

BDC iad j214k may get Slayer out of the wall cling corner oki, I think, I really should try it a bit in traning mode but, again, Chipp can chose on what side he can land/hit you so getting bdc inputs crossed up could still be a pretty big problem (unless you are willing to try to read that he's going to wall cling > 2D lol).

 

welp, I think I may be losing a bit too many matches mostly because of my lack of exp playing Slayer more than this match up just being straight up bad ahah

[Mr. Fancypants]

I ground this matchup out at Evo a little bit against a Chipp that was DEFINITELY better than me. My observations are as follows:

The ambiguous j.H oki:
Bad news: This is a nightmare blender. It's hard to block, which makes it harder to BDC out. If you CAN read the sides, though, you get back into the neutral for free.

Good news: It telegraphs super hard. He comes down right on top of you and Blitz Shield cares NAUGHT for crossup shenanigans. Learn your blitz combos and make him respect your meter.

Wallstick corner mixup:
Bad news: He can decide where he comes down and how he hits you. You're deaing with the j.H oki plus some other shenanigans.
Good news: 66 (dash into the stage) turns into backdash if he comes down in the corner, and seems to get slayer out of at least *some* of chipps non-crossup oki.

Neutral game:
Here's the part where I had the biggest problem.
Good news: We're Slayer, he's Chipp. He dies if we get a solid hit.
Bad news: Chipp is WAY more mobile than us, and has strong normals which can challenge ours. It's even possible for him to trade profitably against us with CH j.D, so watch out!

Worse news: We lose a LOT of our options if he has meter. He can use his mobility to dance around outside our range, then wait for us to press a button, teleport YRC, and combo into knockdown.

Teleport YRC is definitely his scariest option. It's 100% safe and is a punish against many of our typically strong neutral tools. As far as I can tell, the answer is to try to maintain a meter lead against him and play super safe against Teleports.

Keep in mind Slayer gains much more tension than Chipp and that Gamma YRC means 1 less teleport YRC.

Could you explain this to me? In what scenarios do you find yourself building meter faster than Chipp? It seems that he can run at us and jump over and away to gain forward-momentum meter, then alpha blade away to safety if we chase, building meter for movement and specials while we're trying to tag him with our safe buttons. If we can touch him and keep him blocking, sure, we get meter, but how does Slayer build a meter advantage in the neutral?

[daymendou]

If you're not hitting him, he's not hitting you either. The game does not reward moving over your opponent's head since half of that movement is towards the opponent and half of that is away. Most of his meter comes from actual hits: repeated jH knockdowns or rekka pressure. If you look at his tension gain on whiffed specials, his safe specials give much less tension than Dandy Step. If he stays in the air, it's hard for him to challenge Dandy Step. As long as you're always walking towards Chipp, you'll gain more meter than him in neutral.

 

I do not recommend relying on Blitz against jH oki. He can use back airdash to wait for Blitz or use j2K to land faster or simply press nothing. You need to scout the player to see whether or not he uses Blitz safe setups instead of hoping he only adapts after Blitz use.

 

I think we should review replays if you have them. I do have some netplay replays but I don't think they'll be very helpful.

[Mr. Fancypants]

Hmm. I hadn't thought about whiffing dandy step in a hitless neutral to build meter. That's pretty sick.

My actual experience in this matchup is very limited, and I have no replays to share. Most of this is based on playing theory fighter with my sparring partner.

I still feel like Chipp can approach us safely, build a bunch of tension in a block string, then get out safely while building a meter lead. Maybe I'm underestimating the power of dandy step?