AC: Basic and Situational Combos

[Adelheid]

EDIT : I'm adding an Impossible dust, as I don't see many for Axl... Cheap damage, but you get the knock down. i think it can be usefull against Aba for example... Works on everyone, anywhere :

5+D-> double jump cancel-> j.D-> 6+K, 2+S, 623+HS-> 623+HS

Milia, May, Bridget and Baiken can tech most of the time at the end of the bomber, but you land before them, so... you're almost sure to get a tech throw from there ^^ (as the opponent usually lands in the corner)

Is it really that worthwhile doing that rather than just doing bomber loops? Granted, you need to be somewhat close to the corner, but if you really need more space you can always just add an FB bomber... The only time it's really not going to work is when it's close to the wrong corner, in my experience. This is useful in that case, but really, I've never had the case where dusting was convenient that I couldn't just transition to bomber loops with the standard impossible dust.

[Digital Watches]

Eh, off 3P counterhit, I think it's more practical to go for a combo from 5P, since it'll hit from farther away and if you're sniping for counterhits with 3P, it'll likely not be from quite that close. Also good is adding 3P--6H into pressure patterns where it's safe, as on the off chance you get the 3P CH, the 6H links into 5K for HUGE damage afterwards. As for impossible dusts, that's pretty much the standard one. Sometimes I like using j.H instead of j.D because it seems to be easier to hit with. But if you're anywhere near the corner, do the (8) j.D, j.D jc Bomber, as then you have a free BLoop.

[Beowulf]

The ID was basically put to get a knock down far from the corner and without the tension to FB Bomber... It's just there to fill the gaps (as Axl doesn't have much options without tension, that combo may come in handy someday...) 3+P CH-> 5+P Yeah, I was thinking about that too, but it whiffs on some characters (those that don't get hit by 6+P) But if you snipe you should go for it, of course. I was more thinking about a non predicted 3+P CH. I'll try that 6+HS follow up then ^^ 3+P CH-> 5+K, 5+P can be done on reaction from not too near too.

[Digital Watches]

3+P CH-> 5+K, 5+P can be done on reaction from not too near too.

This.

[JinSaotome]

zany, highly unlikely raei S combo In corner 63214S (slides INTO the corner) 3P OTG > 5P > 2S > j.H > j.D > 623D > 623H > 2S > j.D > 623H > Rensen-2 opponent can tech the 3P, but if they lack tension, then that can open them up to a 5P

[Digital Watches]

zany, highly unlikely raei S combo

In corner

63214S (slides INTO the corner) 3P OTG > 5P > 2S > j.H > j.D > 623D > 623H > 2S > j.D > 623H > Rensen-2

opponent can tech the 3P, but if they lack tension, then that can open them up to a 5P

Cut the 5P and it should work on some (most) characters as a real combo. Also, don't bother with FB stuff unless a regular BLoop won't connect (which it should here.) I also wouldn't rely on the opponent having no meter when there are real combos that would work in that situation AND get knockdown/set up airthrow traps.

I'd revise that combo to:

63214S (slides INTO the corner) 3P > 2S > j.D > 623H > Etc.

[Beowulf]

A full tension one, just like DW likes them ^^

(in fact he doesn't, as it waists tension... but, oh well here goes : )

c.S, 5+HS, Bentengari S-> FRC-> j.S (2), j.HS, FB Bomber-> Air dash-> j.D, Kokuugeki-> FRC-> Bomber-> 2+S (2)-> j.D, Bomber-> Rensengeki-> FRC-> Raieisageki S-> Meaty Rashousen

I know it's likely the player would tech at the end of the sliding. In that case just do normal Rensen knock down, or go for the air throw instead.

Got that up on youtube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF9JyR4NZx8

Didn't want to post it in the video section, it's just a single combo after all...

[Adelheid]

Just make sure the opponent is always at exactly enough health to die from Rashousen in all videos containing that, and its use will always be justified. If you have two options, both of which are guaranteed to kill the opponent, you should always pick the one that costs more tension

[Digital Watches]

I like it! One thing though: If you're going to do the rashousen after slide, make sure to time it so it's a meaty, since that's why you do it from the slide in the first place. In that vid it's a bit late. Also, I wonder if, when they can tech the slide, you can fake rashou and airthrow? Might be too slow. I wanna try it though.

[Beowulf]

Yup, it's not timed well in the video. But you got the idea ^^ You can fake the rashousen, but you'll have to time it really early to get the tech throw (about when you land). But it can be a good way to scare your opponent and force him to tech... Forward ? BTW : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, rensen-> FRC-> Raieisageki S-> Meaty rashousen does more damage than any other rensen FRC follow up.

[Adelheid]

You can fake the rashousen, but you'll have to time it really early to get the tech throw (about when you land).

But it can be a good way to scare your opponent and force him to tech... Forward ?

They may even want to tech forward if not scared, seeing a bad Rasho and wanting to punish... Probably not something to do more than once every dozen or so matches.

BTW : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, rensen-> FRC-> Raieisageki S-> Meaty rashousen does more damage than any other rensen FRC follow up.

How much more than standard bomber loop reps, exactly? Would test myself, but all my stuff is packed up right now.

[Beowulf]

I'm on it. I'll compare it to a 2 rep bomber in the corner All right, here's what I got. Tested on Potemkin (as he is the easiest to juggle with). B-LOOP : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, 2+D, Rensengeki (1 hit)-> FRC-> IAD-> j.D, Bomber-> 2+S (2)-> j.D, Bomber-> 2+S (2)-> j.D, Bomber-> Rensengeki-> 2 (22 HITS) Meaty Rashousen : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, 2+D, Rensengeki (3 hits)-> FRC->Raieisageki S-> Meaty rashousen (8+2 HITS) Life of Pot | B-LOOP (BL) DMG | Meaty Rashousen (MR) DMG 128 : 197 dmg | 193 dmg 120 : 195 dmg | 193 dmg 110 : 192 dmg | 193 dmg 100 : 191 dmg | 190 dmg 90 : 184 dmg | 188 dmg 80 : 177 dmg | 179 dmg 70 : 166 dmg | 168 dmg 60 : 152 dmg | 159 dmg 50 : 137 dmg | 134 dmg 40 : 115 dmg | 119 dmg 30 : DIES at the end of the 2 | DIES after rashousen 25 : DIES after 15 hits | DIES after rashousen 20 : DIES after 10 hits | DIES after rashousen 15 : DIES after 7 hits | DIES after 8 hits Less : Dies after rensen FRC... Overall, they both do quite the same amount of damage. With a full life Pot, BL does more damage than MR, and it's even true on less resistant caracter (you get 10 dmg more on SOL with BL for example). When Pot is short on life, MR seems to be a more stable way to score big damage. Finally, as MR is easier to do than BL, and MR can be done on every characters and about at the middle of the stage, I suppose MR should be prefered. This is nothing more than figures, and everyone may do whatever he wants with it (I prefer doing BL, as it is more stylish !). But this shows how MR is too much neglected, whereas it does a lot of damage. BTW, MR doesn't work on Jam, except if she is cornered, and if you don't score the 2+D, just skip directly to Rensen.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah, but look at your combo: By starting your combo with such a long ground string (5K, c.S, 5H, 2D) you end up taking the guardbar down a ton, so of course the damage of a full combo will be more comparable to something that isn't affected by the guardbar consumption of the previous combo (since Rashousen starts a new hit counter, obviously). There's no reason you need that many hits to hitconfirm the combo, and you can do more damage without it. For example: On Slayer: c.S, 5H, Rensen (1) FRC IAD j.D, Bomber, j.D, Bomber, run, c.S, j.D, bomber, rensen, 2. (234 damage) c.S, 5H, Rensen (1) FRC, Raei --> Meaty Rashou (110+72 (182) damage) To be fair, having the unnecessary extra hits actually benefits the meaty rashou setup, so: 5K, c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen (2) FRC, Raei --> Meaty Rashou (136+72 (208) damage) I'll take the combo, personally, especially since Meaty Rashou has situations in which it's not guarunteed. Note: this is tested with life regain turned off, because guts judgement affects the damage Rashousen does (Even though with that particular string, it does the same damage it would at full health on slayer)

[Beowulf]

I'll take the combo, personally, especially since Meaty Rashou has situations in which it's not guarunteed.

I think Meaty rashou is more guarunteed than the B-loop combo. Especially because it's the SAME for every character, it can be done farther from the corner than a B-Loop and you are more likely to prevent the enemy from getting a burst, as it is only a 10 hit combo. Moreover, after that few hits (8 here) there's no possibility for the enemy to tech the slide. So it IS guarunteed, whereas bad input, wrong timing, miscalculations, stress, etc... Are really common when doing a B-loop...

AND you can combo after Raieisaki S if you get it in the corner for a b-loop ending if you want...

BTW, all the resluts I put were with life regain off too.

And if you want to be fair, start your B-LOOP combo with j.HS, it's the best oppener I've seen so far. But, it'll become a situational combo...

[Silmerion]

I'll bet this has been discussed, but here goes. I recently noticed that: (In the corner) Raiei(S) > 3P > 2S > j.D > 623H > B-loop reps doesn't work on some heavier characters, such as Johnny. Thus, I came up with this alternative: (In the corner) Raiei(S) > 5K > 5P > 2S > sj.D > 623H > B-loop reps

[Adelheid]

As I figure it, there's something else that rather benefits bomber loop reps over meaty rasho madness... Tension gain. You gain vastly more tension with bomber loop reps, in many cases causing a large net gain in tension, more than making up for the FRC. This isn't really true with meaty rasho.

[Digital Watches]

I think Meaty rashou is more guarunteed than the B-loop combo. Especially because it's the SAME for every character, it can be done farther from the corner than a B-Loop and you are more likely to prevent the enemy from getting a burst, as it is only a 10 hit combo.

Further from the corner is a good point, but they can still burst at any time during the combo, and BLoops set up burst baiting fairly well if you know how to do it (I could discuss this further if you want)

Moreover, after that few hits (8 here) there's no possibility for the enemy to tech the slide. So it IS guarunteed, whereas bad input, wrong timing, miscalculations, stress, etc... Are really common when doing a B-loop...

Yeah, but there are still things like throw-invincible reversals and such that can get them out of it. Besides, you should never cite execution and human error as a reason not to try a combo. There's no reaction involved, so it's all practicable, and the fact that it's harder to get down doesn't make it not worth the significant extra damage.

AND you can combo after Raieisaki S if you get it in the corner for a b-loop ending if you want...

Yeah, but it kind of kills the damage unless Raei was the first hit.

BTW, all the resluts I put were with life regain off too.

Good. Just making sure.

And if you want to be fair, start your B-LOOP combo with j.HS, it's the best oppener I've seen so far. But, it'll become a situational combo...

Eh, Kokuu FRC is probably the highest damage starter, or maybe 6H meaty.

I'll bet this has been discussed, but here goes. I recently noticed that:

(In the corner) Raiei(S) > 3P > 2S > j.D > 623H > B-loop reps

doesn't work on some heavier characters, such as Johnny. Thus, I came up with this alternative:

(In the corner) Raiei(S) > 5K > 5P > 2S > sj.D > 623H > B-loop reps

I agree that it's a problem, but adding more hits is just bad form. There are ways to do it without sacrificing your damage like that. For example, this combo:

On Johnny: Raei(S) > c.S, j.K, Bomber, (run, c.S, j.D, Bomber) x 2, rensen, 2. (229 damage & knockdown.)

As I figure it, there's something else that rather benefits bomber loop reps over meaty rasho madness... Tension gain. You gain vastly more tension with bomber loop reps, in many cases causing a large net gain in tension, more than making up for the FRC. This isn't really true with meaty rasho.

This is definitely true also.

[Beowulf]

they can still burst at any time during the combo, and BLoops set up burst baiting fairly well if you know how to do it (I could discuss this further if you want)

For the burst part, I was more thinking about the enemy getting his burst during the combo, not already having it and waiting for the best moment to use it. So with 8 hits, it's really more likely he doesn't get it most of the time, whereas with 22 hits... But, after 15 hits, there's no point bursting, except if you want to prevent from being knocked down... Anyway, there's no need to discuss it, I get your idea.

Besides, you should never cite execution and human error as a reason not to try a combo.

I never said you shouldn't do the combo because you're likely to fail it in the middle ! It's just that during my tests, I noticed that doing MR was easier than doing a BL combo. And for newbies, getting high damage with low training is always a good point !

Yeah, but there are still things like throw-invincible reversals and such that can get them out of it.

Sure there are reversals etc... But in that case you can bait them, just as easily as you bait bursts in your combo !

Kokuu FRC is probably the highest damage starter

Do you guarantee me that kokuu FRC-> B-loop is the best combo Axl does then ? (I'll have to try this !)

Tension gain ? Yeah, I guess that's a good point for doing the combo !

And what about guard meter ? Do you gain higher damages from the combo with a fairly filled guard bar ? I think I'm gonna look to that closer...

EDIT : Definitively, when the guard bar is up to +10 or more, doing the BL combo gives you WAY more damage than the MR one, as in most cases, the Rashousen hits the same amount of damage whether the guard bar is full or at 0...

[Digital Watches]

For the burst part, I was more thinking about the enemy getting his burst during the combo, not already having it and waiting for the best moment to use it. So with 8 hits, it's really more likely he doesn't get it most of the time, whereas with 22 hits... But, after 15 hits, there's no point bursting, except if you want to prevent from being knocked down... Anyway, there's no need to discuss it, I get your idea.

Aye aye.

I never said you shouldn't do the combo because you're likely to fail it in the middle ! It's just that during my tests, I noticed that doing MR was easier than doing a BL combo. And for newbies, getting high damage with low training is always a good point !

Ah, I see. Well, I guess that's true to some extent, but I don't encourage using stopgaps forever instead of training one's execution.

Sure there are reversals etc... But in that case you can bait them, just as easily as you bait bursts in your combo !

That's also true, but rashou feint is a bit more risky than mid BLoop burst baits.

Do you guarantee me that kokuu FRC-> B-loop is the best combo Axl does then ? (I'll have to try this !)

Well, probably the best one you can get in a normal situation. I think stuff starting from TK FB can do more damage, but it's a bit impractical.

Tension gain ? Yeah, I guess that's a good point for doing the combo !

Stimmt.

And what about guard meter ? Do you gain higher damages from the combo with a fairly filled guard bar ? I think I'm gonna look to that closer...

EDIT : Definitively, when the guard bar is up to +10 or more, doing the BL combo gives you WAY more damage than the MR one, as in most cases, the Rashousen hits the same amount of damage whether the guard bar is full or at 0...

Yeah, like I said before, the more the guardbar is in your favor, the less helpful a setup into rashousen is, since it resets the guardbar to 0.

[Digital Watches]

Extra damage on Johnny off Raei slide, the Axl rollercoaster way! Raei (S) In corner--> c.S, j.H, j.D, Bomber, TK FB, Bomber, 2S, j.D, Bomber, Rensen-->2 (252 damage)

[Beowulf]

Ok, tested a BnB combo off a Raiei S FRC : 1) Raieisageki S (sJI)-> FRC (hit)-> Air dash-> j.HS-> 5+P (2 hits), 2+S (2 hits)-> sJ-> j.HS, j.D, Kokuugeki 2) Raieisageki S (sJI)-> FRC (hit)-> Air dash-> j.HS-> 5+P (2 hits), 2+S (2 hits), 623+HS->623+HS (KD) Sometimes you may use 5+K or c.S instead of 5+P, it all depends on where you are after the j.HS, but 5+P always works. Special notes for Faust : - If Faust crouches, the Raieisageki S actually misses if done as an FRC. If you want to hit, you must do a RC instead. I tested, he's the only one that doesn't hit on an FRC when he crouches. - The 5+P 's second hit will miss. instead do 6+P (more damage than 5+P 1 hit and c.S) Other : If you miss-time your FRC so that it whiffs... Then do that instead : Raieisageki S (sJI)-> FRC (miss)-> Air-dash-> j.HS-> 5+K, c.S, 2+D, Rensengeki.... You can do this follow up ON REACTION after a missed FRC. Whether they crouch or not, your dash is blocked by the enemy's sprite. Just don't dash too early ^^

[Digital Watches]

Er... except for the Faust thing that's all been posted before... No offense. But it is good to know that Raei (FRC) won't hit low-profilers (Nor will Bomber, but that was already known)

[Beowulf]

Yes, sorry ^^ Lazy to read everything again

Still, Faust is the only one who's low profile goes under Raieisageki S FRC. Otherwise, it's "goodu daze" ^^

EDIT : Honestly, it's high time you do your raieisageki tutorial ! It'll be easier to see on the forum...

[Digital Watches]

Yes, sorry ^^ Lazy to read everything again

Still, Faust is the only one who's low profile goes under Raieisageki S FRC. Otherwise, it's "goodu daze" ^^

EDIT : Honestly, it's high time you do your raieisageki tutorial ! It'll be easier to see on the forum...

Okay okay, fine. (And by low-profile, I mean things like Sol/Venom Sweep and Axl 2K, which I think can go under that stuff too. Faust is a rare case of having an almost low-profile ducking height.)

[Beowulf]

About meaty rashousen...

Yeah, but there are still things like throw-invincible reversals and such that can get them out of it.

Got a video up to illustrate that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzWwAWjr_sM

I agree, I was a bit too enthusiastic about this move... But, doing it may help sometimes.