Zinac Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 All Rachel character specific matchup discussion should go here! (Generic Rachel matchup discussion should go here!) (Anything character specific should go to the appropriate Character thread)
ssj2jeff Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 anyone mind helping me with v-13. finally ran into one the other day and he beat me pretty bad. i can't stay back cause she can poke me all day and when i finally get in she still has a godly back dash and still have some decent pokes to keep me out.
Spirit Juice Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Unfortunately, there really isn't anything anyone can tell you that'll make the match a lot better for you. It pretty much comes down to how patient you are and how well you can avoid swords. Even if Nu whiffs a sword, Rachel's poor mobility without wind and lack of long range moves that lead into damage will make it challenging to get in on her.
koushijp Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 For Nu i find using j.qcf.b ~ d works well to counter swords. You have to OTG the projectile so you are basically in the deadspot where her swords don't hit. that should give you time to close the distance on Nu. This usually works well. If your timing is off on the projectile you end up trading hits which isn't all that bad since yours nets more damage. I play a sort of zone/counter style of Rachel and this usually works for me. You can also wind accel. her qcf.b from the ground which will hit about head height and if it misses it lands right about where she will back dash to setting up a detonate.
ArkiveZero Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 yea against v-13 you have to be really patient. whenever i find an opening i either use the pumpkin and wind or air dash B with wind > combo. you're going to need wind meter lol
pewter Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I haven't fought a very experienced V-13 yet so I cant attest to any of that, but Rachel seems to have an awful time dealing with pressure -- i.e. Noel and Taokaka. You've got to be quite careful when you try to summon, and really only Lobelia if you know they're at the very least going to have to block it. You can argue just about any match with Rachel requires patience, just because her high-damage combos demand a lot of set-up. Have pumpkin, will travel, though.
tsukachan Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I found experience hakumen players the worst because they know how to stick to you. Never much problem fighting v-13 once you corner her and they do it to themselves. but a 5c slash from hakumen will knock out anything you throw at him and seriously damage your health. And make it worst once you get near him, he got a counter system:gonk:lol. pumkin isn't that effective using as a rush on him since i found out he counters that. But since rachel has better move on just try to lure him.
Discotheque Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I mentioned this before in some thread but some nice tricks vs V-13 (tricks that are no way spammable but nice tactics to keep in mind) If you manage to block her 3C/3C->forward sickle, you can 3C(wind) approach. If they block, you're at a frame advantage+can apply pressure, if it trades with 2A or something, you have nu on the floor, if you hit her, you can lay a frog or summon a pumpkin. I believe 3C goes under her j2D too. Don't iad, summon raw pumpkins/frogs ever. Air lobelia gets shot down really easily as well by her dash 6D and even if it trades, you're at a disadvantage because you'll be knocked down while nu will be stunned only momentarily. I personally like to stay away, try jump approaches, guard her swords, land repeat until I feel comfortable that the nu player is going to 6D, then I summon a pumpkin on the ground and rush her shit down. Or keep dashing->stopping->blocking her 5D string->until I guess right and get air pumpkin before her 5D. Spend all your winds once you get in, and make sure you get damage, any damage. Then when you run out, run away and keep blocking her shit till you get 3-4 wind again. Always use tension for BBL because you really don't need to dead angle. And don't even bother bursting against nu unless she is doing her jc->j2C combo.
MelloBoy Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 but Rachel seems to have an awful time dealing with pressure -- i.e. Noel and Taokaka. Noel and Taokaka, I'm finding, are the 2 characters where the electric chair works really well. Haven't had too many problems with them after starting to use the chair more liberally. Jin on the other hand...I can't seem to get out of surfboard spams too easily...i think 6B takes priority, but I haven't been able to time it properly more than 2-3 times (all accidental).. :/
Alex073088 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 yea racheal does have trouble against pressure esp. in the corner against hakumen's fucking long as sword strikes! plus if u set up and he a mid screen away he can dash forward in the air and punish u before u are allowed to fuckin block again and being though he hits u charles or lubi will have been set for nuthin setting them far away is hard becuase he can easly avoid them u would have to get close be careful of counters and be patient
Undertow Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 6A beats out Jin riding the ice clean from full screen. You need to press it right when he starts the move though. If you're late you eat it.
Soniti Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 6A beats out Jin riding the ice clean from full screen. You need to press it right when he starts the move though. If you're late you eat it. Just block then instant block the second hit and punish starting with 5b.
pewter Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Just block then instant block the second hit and punish starting with 5b. Sounds delicious. This, as a policy, seems to be a stronger strategy for Rachel as she really has a hard time "beating" rush-down. You need to be a strong blocker as Rachel to take on faster opponents, and insta-blocking is apart of that. One idea for anti-rush is a bit risky: shooting out an A or B-lobelia semi-randomly, though if i have full wind, I'll do it and then redirect the shot if I see them move. Jump back, C-lobelia is also a good idea against characters that are weaker in the air. Versus Hakumen, I feel you need to keep in mind he never has 100% zoning, even though his c-slashes are very wide. They're also slow, though, so just be very conservative with what moves you do, especially with your back to the wall. You've got to always be ready to block, especially against a Hakumen who knows to not try to take you in the air. Wait for your opportunities to show, and keep things interesting with pumpkin and frog.
pewter Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 A well-timed 5b will also knock Jin out of ice car. Most scrub-Jins use it to fly at you from the other side of the screen, offering tons of time to whack him out of it. Unfortunately, ice car puts Jin in the air, making your ground combos off 5b impossible, but you can in the very least 214b to deny an escape and fully steal pressure from him.
Soniti Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 A well-timed 5b will also knock Jin out of ice car. Most scrub-Jins use it to fly at you from the other side of the screen, offering tons of time to whack him out of it. Unfortunately, ice car puts Jin in the air, making your ground combos off 5b impossible, but you can in the very least 214b to deny an escape and fully steal pressure from him. Seriously, unless you are going to be guard crushed and don't have barrier or are certain it's the 'a' version of ice car, just block and instant block. That's where your damaging options come from.
ssj2jeff Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 yea if you instant block the second hit of ride the icing it's a free 2.a to whatever you want. well i figured out the arakune match up pretty well. i see why they put it in rachels favor. pretty much her 6a beats all of arakunes air attacks. all you have to do is stay ground. when he's far throw out pumpkin>236+c>6D till they finally decide to come to you. then just wait till they take to the air and 6a them. if arakune starts to do his 6c>5c>2c(the loop thing) on block and your not cursed you can 5B>3C~D in between the first and second hit of the move. thought i'd just share any useful info i have.
kro_ Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 yea if you instant block the second hit of ride the icing it's a free 2.a to whatever you want. well i figured out the arakune match up pretty well. i see why they put it in rachels favor. pretty much her 6a beats all of arakunes air attacks. all you have to do is stay ground. when he's far throw out pumpkin>236+c>6D till they finally decide to come to you. then just wait till they take to the air and 6a them. if arakune starts to do his 6c>5c>2c(the loop thing) on block and your not cursed you can 5B>3C~D in between the first and second hit of the move. thought i'd just share any useful info i have. Arakune can always do his j.D to stop his aerial momentum and hit you with a curse bug, so 6a won't always work. He can also cross you up with his j.2a dive attack and avoid the 6a completely. Finally, his j.D attack can trade hits with 236c > 6d but will end up leaving you cursed, so it actually works out in his favor. They are useful strategies, but Arakune still has a lot of options to get around them so there's still plenty of risk involved in using them.
Soniti Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 yea if you instant block the second hit of ride the icing it's a free 2.a to whatever you want. Why would you start the combo with 2a, which immediately prorates 80% and has a P2 value of 82%, when you could instead start with 5b, which has an initial 90% and a P2 value of 89%. This leads me into some advice on Rachel punishes -- You always want to start your punish with 6b if you have time to do so. It has a starting proration of 100%. If not, 5b is your second best choice, with 90%. Only resort to 5a if you don't have time to hit 5b (which only takes 1 more frame to come out).
Discotheque Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 It's hard AA'ing arakune with 6A when he can change momentum/direction really well, I find myself eating his bird/dive when I try to spam 6A. I think it'll be better if you jC him a lot though I don't honestly know this match-up too well.
ssj2jeff Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Why would you start the combo with 2a, which immediately prorates 80% and has a P2 value of 82%, when you could instead start with 5b, which has an initial 90% and a P2 value of 89%. This leads me into some advice on Rachel punishes -- You always want to start your punish with 6b if you have time to do so. It has a starting proration of 100%. If not, 5b is your second best choice, with 90%. Only resort to 5a if you don't have time to hit 5b (which only takes 1 more frame to come out). learned something new. i'll just sit back and let you guys talk then.
Shadow Moth Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Shouldn't there be a thread where we can put the proration values and other stuff?
Zinac Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Shouldn't there be a thread where we can put the proration values and other stuff? Its in the frame data. http://rclacas.googlepages.com/rachel.html (accidentally hit the edit button on your post sorry)
Vayden Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Anyone have some tips for a Hakumen matchup? I seem to have a bad habit of losing to lowbie Hakumens that simply spam their regular slash attacks. Cant reach them on the ground and Rachel has horrid air-to-air attacks so its hard to take em from the air too
JackG Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Keep him zoned. Use max range 6b if he's approaching from the ground and 6a if he's trying to IAD in or just approach from the air. Use your cannon to anti-air/zone him. A consistent 'summon pumpkin, shoot cannon, wind forward, summon frog if he isn't out, repeat' is a pretty handy start. You really have no need to approach him head on unless you're sure you can do it safely (like if he's blocking frog or something)
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