GodPress Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Any Venom's go to EVO? Blacksnake and DaiAndOh are in there. Anyone else? Stone, Pomparomp & a few others I don't remember the name of.
Pomparomp Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 There was a bizarre amount of Venoms and Bedmen at Evo. edit:and an equally bizarre number of daiandohs
DaiAndOh Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 There was a bizarre amount of Venoms and Bedmen at Evo. edit:and an equally bizarre number of daiandohs That much I can attest to. Only thought there was one of me before 0_o. Also joining us was 2GB Combo, Ryan Hunter, Sunfish, and a Canadian Venom Stuart. Also Fino said he'll try to make make time next year, when I sent him a picture of me with the Mikado crew :P
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Not sure if most of you heard, but there was an Xrd players doc made up. Be sure to add your info!*Side note: DaiAndOh I don't think you can main AND sub Venom. Edited August 5, 2015 by SnowMonkeyFunky old link broke
DaiAndOh Posted July 31, 2015 Author Posted July 31, 2015 Not sure if most of you heard, but there was an Xrd players doc made up.http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php/page/index.html/_/home/xrd-google-doc-to-find-playersmatchups-r495 Be sure to add your info! *Side note: DaiAndOh I don't think you can main AND sub Venom. When you become the mod, you can tell who I can and can't sub!
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 D: As for actual discussion: I'm having an issue getting clS out when trying to use it as an AA or during pressure. Like, say I try to do dash up clS, I'll get a fS that will completely whiff cause there's no hitbox at point blank, but if I do dash up 5K>S I'll get 5K clS. Is there a way to prevent this? Similar issue with dash under clS AA, I usually end up dashing too far to avoid having fS come out, and I do a clS in the wrong direction. EDIT: Also, the FD/Special OS discussed earlier in the thread is gonna be out in Revelator. Not a huge deal since Venom didn't get anything off it to begin with, but good to know for future reference.
DaiAndOh Posted July 31, 2015 Author Posted July 31, 2015 As far as pressure goes, it's pretty much a matter of you weren't close enough when you hit raw S, but were when you hit 5K. Pretty sure you don't instantly stop the moment you press a button, so the game would trigger the f.S rather than c.S the moment you press the button, when you weren't in range. For both, use training mode to get a better idea on how it may or may not trigger.
SIne Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 you have to be pretty close to get a c.s not f.s so be sure your dashes (and charges ) are buffered,and you are right in their hit box, if they are carelessly just holding FD , just use that extra time to dash closer. As far as dash under close slash AA you have to be directly under them and have really good timing with it., you cant just press it and hope lol, also it doesnt work if they are doing a deep jump-in meaty or something like that , its mostly a neutral tool, in some situations AAing with j.P, into air combo is a less risky decision
TittyFOFO Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 Yeah, I wouldn't call it the most reliable of AAs. Prolly better off dashing under with 6P if you have the time for it. You can get some decent mileage against stuff like May's j.2H or whatever the hell that anchor drop move is. Personally, I've been trying to incorporate AA 2HS into my game more. Its active for way longer than 6P, which can be handy against things that can alter jump in timing like air bridal express and Sol divekick. Can also lead to good damage on CH.
DaiAndOh Posted August 2, 2015 Author Posted August 2, 2015 2HS is underrated by several players I feel. It actually does beat some moves Venom's other AA's will not (such as air bridal). It also hits people crouching...sometimes you press 6P and they end up on the ground and 6P whiffs....
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 2H only seems to beat air Bridal at a narrow range. You almost need to clip it with the tip of the cue, otherwise counterhit, rip, start the next round. I definitely agree that it's an underrated AA though. The damage potential off an AA CH 2H is nuts.
GodPress Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 It's hard to AA bridal with both 6p and 2h. I find 6p more consistent on the ground, if not jump back HS is generally my go-to. I dig 2H though; big fan of it in the corner when you have the threat of multiple balls.
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 If you a2a with jump back jH, is there any set pattern you can use to get some lockdown going? I would imagine some kind of set to jD BH would at least keep them still long enough to move back in for pressure. Also, how do you guys feel about using TK MS as a tick throw setup? Something like blocked clS jc TK MS (whiff) throw, or off of some kind of horizontal oki dash up TK MS [1-2] on hit or block walk up throw. Legitimately effective and useful offline, or whacky online only gimmick?
GodPress Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 j.D(BH) is my go to which should allow you to run back in or give you space to do another set. Also TK MS throw is alright, if you're really looking to secure the tick perhaps think about using yrc to lock their inputs too.
DaiAndOh Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 As far as whiff MS goes, I mostly go low which is low reward in the majority of situations but works almost every time.I think it would work best with an active ball covering the MS. Would be fantastic if Venom had a standing low to OS throw with :P.
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 For CH jH a2a, you can cancel with K set, airdash forward jD BH for a really gimmicky crossup! YRC doesn't completely lock their inputs, they just need to jump/input whatever /after/ the freeze. It's the same reason Potemkin gets so much milage out of hammerfall YRC buster, if you don't input a jump after the freeze you're stuck. Holding upback will get you nowhere. It's great to fuck with DP mashers in that situation though. For going low after empty MS, I've tried that a lot but I'm often too far to get a full 2K clS launch if they do stand up. I'd rather take the risk getting that extra pixel closer to throw and get full corner carry.
Pomparomp Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 It really 100% should not eat YRC or basic movement inputs.
Seiki Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) the times i do empty MS is mainly in the corner after knockdown do S>P ball>66>5P>BH oki. If you are close enough to the opponent after setting up S>P ball oki to where your 5P makes contact with them on block you can go jump cancel it into empty MS and the second ball can still cover you if they decide to mash or block. As an added benefit if your 5P and the ball in front make contact on your opponent at the same time you don't get pushed back allowing you to get a combo afterwards. If you are further out when you hit 5P to where it whiffs and the ball in front needs to travel a bit before making contact you can do 66>TK empty MS which carries the momentum of the dash allowing you to land close enough to the opponent to get the 2k>c.S>real combo. Outside of a setup situation when pressuring and you really want to do it for 50 meter RCing a stinger aim in the corner (after it hits) has a huge amount of blockstun and slowdown that depending on the range you can do 66>TK empty MS and still be able to frametrap them with a 2k if they decide to mash. Edited August 8, 2015 by Seiki
DaiAndOh Posted August 26, 2015 Author Posted August 26, 2015 Hi, so incase people haven't read the note, Dustloop matchup section has changed. Please take matchup discussion to the new matchups forum. This will help us easily communicate more with people who play the opposing character, and you can find matchups easily using the stickied post in that thread.
AznSpyderman Posted September 27, 2015 Posted September 27, 2015 So I messed around with a carcass raid setup that I figured out last week and found that it has uses against Axl.Basically, you can use the recovery frames of a grounded attack or from landing a jump to buff a carcass raid.Premise:You can go: [4],6,4+S/HS for stinger aims, so you can do the same with carcass raid. Thing is though, jumps are 1 frame, so you'll jump unless you buff it into a normal.You can try it with 2P, and while that's recovering, hit 8, then 2+S as soon as the 2P recovers, you'll remain grounded and get a carcass raid while charging for the next.This isn't the greatest video in the world, but you'll get the idea. Anyway, you can set P, or any combination from the P formation and do a 2P followed by double carcass raid. It also works by buffering into a stinger aim or my favorite - an H carcass raid. Then you can get 3 carcass raids consecutively.Anyway, I played a bunch against Faust, Axl, Ky, Chipp, and Elphelt today - but found that it helps keep Axl out even more. I mean, a poor Axl has a hard time getting in just around P-set, 5p all day, but adding this in there makes them hesitate to try and get in after a single carcass raid.I don't know if there's any other matchups that it would be effective against - but it doesn't hurt to have a little more knowledge.
TittyFOFO Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Interesting stuff. I could see that working well against Ky because S Carcass is pretty good against Stun Dipper, Greed Sever, and fireballs, but couldn't Axl just use Resengeki to eat these?
AznSpyderman Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Interesting stuff. I could see that working well against Ky because S Carcass is pretty good against Stun Dipper, Greed Sever, and fireballs, but couldn't Axl just use Resengeki to eat these?From full screen, you could, but by the time it recovers, I already have more on the screen. The only advantage it has is if I have a stream of horizontal balls going slow and Axl is beyond rensengeki's maximum range. Then he can use it and try to air dash over but having two SCRs there, can make you second guess how safe it is. Still can trade with a well-timed jS or if you RC the rensengeki. It's not something that completely changes the tides, but is another tool to keep him out of rensengeki range.As for the Ky, yeah I didn't even think of it keeping stun dipper out. A lot of Kys will do that as soon as they clear the carcass so having a second would help. I'd imagine it could help against Sin for a similar reason. Edited September 28, 2015 by AznSpyderman
D-D-Domo Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 Not specifically Venom related, but for me having trouble doing air throws, I discovered that back air throws are more easy to land than front ones. I tried air front throwing a descending opponent and miss almost 100% and that is reversed for back air throws. I'm assuming that this is the case for every character.
DaiAndOh Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 I don't think that's the case? Make sure you're hitting 6 and not 9 and 3...
Raynex Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Hey all! I wanted to re-invigorate conversation about Venom tech. I've been practicing regularly over the last few months, but mainly I've been studying all those 1 and 2 hour long Fino videos to identify his setups / blockstrings / ways he catches corner escapes, etc. I have a large google doc compiled (which I will share when it's fully organized), but for now I'm going to share some of my favourite bits of the research. Hopefully this helps everyone!Blockstring Notes* Stinger Aim and Carcass Raid = SSA / HSA or SCR / HCR* bh = ball hit- ~PQV, 2S xx SSA / SCR- Hold 3 during dash in pressure for (2K)2D xx SCR. (On hit you can c.S(1) confirm, on block you keep advantage. Keeps you closer than other strings too)- f.S/2S/6H xx HDHM (catches jumps and mashing, confirm with RC) Corner specific blockstrings - 2S xx P set xN (Faultess Defense seems to be the only answer. It's a strong pressure reset tool) - (PQV, 5Pbh)x2/3 (Fino has been doing this lots in XrdR. Best done from max range 5P, against bigger chars or those with no good reversal. It's super annoying)- 5K, f.S, 2S xx SSA, f.S xx ball set of choice (just a solid blockstring I've seen him use)- SSA YRC, SCR, S set, 6H, H set, 5PbhOKI*Double ball setups will be listed as "PK set, HS set, KP set" etc* bh = ball hit (e.g.: 5Pbh)* Stinger Aim and Carcass Raid = SSA / HSA or SCR / HCR* ~ = hold button down for auto teleport Midscreen 2D- P set~teleport, j.S (Baits DPs, ball hits meaty, very safe)- HK set, jf.Pbh, air Faultless Defense (DP and burst safe, pressures escapes and forces block on jumps, loses to run under) - P set, SSA [YRC], 5Pbh (ball hits meaty, dash in front of charged ball and throw before it hits or pressure)Fino 6H Corner oki (post-combo when you are further away)- P set, SCR, 5Pbh, 2S xx P set, 5Pbh (this is main setup and cannot be jumped. If they hold upback the whole string combos!)*If the above string is blocked: f.S xx any set / delay HCR, 5Kbh / dash throw / iad / TK madstruggle. Be creative!- Combo into 6H xx KQV for hard knockdown. Delay HCR (hits meaty), SCR, 5Pbh. (Be creative afterwards)I have loads more information, but I'm still organizing it all and collecting more data. Hopefully you all try this stuff out and have great results, I definitely have! Edited October 22, 2015 by Raynex
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