[CPEX] Rachel Alucard General Discussion

[gamester]

I'm going to miss current 6B CH and going back to the BBCT one. I love having to air dash, catch and land combos ;_;

Still not sure what the exact/average damage output is. Is there any info on that roughly? General BnB dmg is what's on my mind anyway.

(Still trying to get over pumpkin being taken away from us)

[7thFonon]

looking at errolnotes....

 

Wonder if it is possible to do George oki in the corner, set ivy blossom while opponent is blocking Frog for 1,000 damage, and still have time to get in an IOH. And since George has no cooldown,  You can basically go into the same setup again if your IOH hits?  I could see damage adding up fast.

 

and wait, because you press 2D during your IOH that means your bats will attack again right? That sounds scary.

[TD]

i think he's assuming that the special exceed accel movie in OD is invuln. I don't know if that is true.

it was stated in the news thread that exceed accel is a universal move with complete invul on startup and completely safe on block, but needs overdrive. It could be untrue, but I hope it isn't.

[Errol]

it was stated in the news thread that exceed accel is a universal move with complete invul on startup and completely safe on block, but needs overdrive. It could be untrue, but I hope it isn't.

 

gotcha. I hadn't seen that info but quite possible then. Sounds like reversal OD is gonna be even more nuts. 

[Errol]

so to reiterate what is in there, if you have ivy set on someone and you use 2d, you'll do a raw 1000 damage per wind you use, instantly. 

 

Against characters you don't need any kind of oki tool against, you can just drop ivy at the end of a combo in the corner. if you spend 4 wind trying to open them with IOH and they just block.. They'll have taken 4000 damage.  if your IOH combo does 1500 damage.. and you opened them up on the first IOH, you'll have done 2500 damage before the combo even started.

[GoBL1N]

Sorry I'm late to the party. Holy smokes. No pumpkin?? but it was such a fun concept...Don't approve of that even if she is overall stronger.

 

Bats? Poison? Coffin? where are you guys seeing this stuff??? Id like to take a look.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

so to reiterate what is in there, if you have ivy set on someone and you use 2d, you'll do a raw 1000 damage per wind you use, instantly. 

 

Against characters you don't need any kind of oki tool against, you can just drop ivy at the end of a combo in the corner. if you spend 4 wind trying to open them with IOH and they just block.. They'll have taken 4000 damage.  if your IOH combo does 1500 damage.. and you opened them up on the first IOH, you'll have done 2500 damage before the combo even started.

 

lol, no way is this making it to loketest #2. They probably just haven't got around to rigging it properly for hitting someone already in hitstun.

 

Also, I'm creating a CF Loketest Info thread to organize and gather everything into in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

[Errol]

https://twitter.com/Errol1001/status/622623589444005889

Info is here

[Tari]

I'm a bit behind on doing a bunch of things I said I'd do, but here's the tested CPE frame data that I'd said I'd record. Couldn't find any previous set of numbers for this, but if it exists, I'd like to check these against them:

 

 

- first number is startup, second number is frame advantage

- startup counted from button press to first frame of hit effect (using counterhit on, that's the frame where the opponent flashes red)

- frame adv calculated by diff between first frame of jump startup, or between jump startup animation and crouch startup (for jump-cancellable moves)

 

======

5A - 6 (second hit 13f), -2
5B - 8, -11
(!) 5C - 13, -23
(!) 5CC - 5 (!?, from button push to 5CC hit, after a delay after 5C), -11

2A - 7, +/-0
2B - 10, -10
2C - 23, -34

(!) 6A - 13, -9
6B - 13, -1
6C - 13, +4 (if last/lowest hit is blocked)

(!) 4B - 26, -2

(!) 3C - 11, -2
(!) 3[C] - 11, -2

j.A - 8
j.B - 9
j.C - 8

j.2C - 13

CA: 13, -17
(!) CT: 30-60, -4 (when barriered)

 

======

 

 

I bolded and exclamation-marked any moves with changes.

 

I obviously couldn't effectively or efficiently test for active frames or guard point frames and the like, so I left them out.

[Errol]

that mostly matches what I know, except I thought 4B is faster than 26 frames now? Wasn't it 26 frames last game?  I was thinking 25 or 24. but the way I test these things is by seeing how large the gap. IIRC 6A>4B would have a 10 frame gap if 4B is 26 frames of startup, since 6A is 16 frames of blockstun.. I think. that might be off. so a 10 frame move like tsubaki 5B would trade.

 

I am surprised that CT is improved. 

 

Thank you Tari.

[Tari]

I thought 4B got faster, as well, but it doesn't appear to have actually changed in that regard. It's my favourite move, so I tested it a few times to be sure, too. :P

It being -2 is pretty nice, though, if not all that amazingly useful.

 

I didn't check to see if things like Tsubaki 5B would trade with 6A>4B, but I'd hardly be surprised if it did. All the testing was done with recordings and frame-by-frame counting.

 

Hopefully someone else can compare or test these numbers, as well. I won't put them up on the wiki until I'm more certain of them.

 

I'm not sure how her specials might have changed, but those are generally a lot weirder to test for her, since they're projectiles and summons, rather than straight-up hits. No promises on getting numbers for those.

[Errol]

if the startup hasn't changed, maybe it lost active frames. 

[Errol]

How hard would it be to get each frame of 4B? like save each frame until returned to neutral, maybe end up with something like during frames 1-3 it is this, then 4-5 it's that etc. And get total duration the same way? If we had total duration we could get # of active and # of recovery I think.

[Kuuhaku]

The only reliable way I know of is to record at 60fps and do frame by frame. I have no means of doing that though. However, I did get my hands on a P1 and P2 calculator so I can start working on that today.

@Tari feel free to append that stuff into the wiki whenever. I already did the move descriptions and the damage data. I'll work on P1 and P2 starting today.

[Tari]

It's quite easy to get total duration, the only problem is figuring out the number of active frames. There are various, tedious ways to test active frames, but pretty much none of them are simple to do and they tend to require a lot of time.

Finding active frames also requires reliable information about some sort of other mechanic/move that either provides invuln (relius dodge, for example) or is affected by blockstun (purple vs green throw). If I had a reliable way to do frame-perfect testing of a move against those sorts of mechanics/moves, I'd do it, but human error makes the trialing process really long and tedious.

 

If there's a more efficient way to test for active frames, I'm all ears.

 

@Polka: I'll guess I can append it after I double check some of the numbers, but that likely won't happen today. I can probably also get startup time for pumpkin (on wind), iris, and point-blank lobelias when I do that, though those are all something of a lower priority.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tari

[Errol]

Proration and Damage is here, I did this the first month of arcade release.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yNT6hw1rC9SWDevNB2iNFy6EgWOjE0pfO_i0Jy1wuzw/edit#gid=0

Yeah, I forgot it's extremely difficult to differentiate between active frames and recovery frames. The simplest thing I can think of to do any testing is to make use of tech options to do calculations.

for example, doing 3c>pumpkin>4b and seeing how much of a gap after teching there is. then some other tweaks, like removing emergency teching and doing neutral tech, using various backdashes with diff invulns to see what gets hit. It's something i Might do for 4b but only 4b. 

[Kuuhaku]

Good stuff. I'll cross check with what I did and put that in after work.

@Tari did you want help fixing the threads or did you want to wait until after everything's settled?

[Tari]

I'm waiting to see what the final form of the forum will be. Trying not to invest too much energy into anything while the forum is in such a volatile state.

 

Gamester has some backups of the threads as well (thank goodness), though the BB Code formatting is completely useless now and will have to be edited.

 

Fortunately, most of the non-info dump threads made it through the upgrade without too much issue, aside from broken links.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tari

[Errol]

I double checked this. 5B>4B, trade with tsubaki's 2c (13 frames). and 6a>4B trades with tsubaki's 5B (10 frames).  5b blockstun is 13 and 6a blockstun is 16 so 4B startup is 26.

[Tari]

I double checked this. 5B>4B, trade with tsubaki's 2c (13 frames). and 6a>4B trades with tsubaki's 5B (10 frames).  5b blockstun is 13 and 6a blockstun is 16 so 4B startup is 26.

Phew, thanks for double-checking that.

[Errol]

Pretty sure 4B's active frames were reduced, too. it's possible to backstep through it with tsubaki - that shouldn't be possible if it still had 7 active frames, since tsubaki's backstep only has 5 frames of invuln.

[GoBL1N]

I was curious what you guys are confirming into with a 2a starter on a crouching opponent? I find myself trying to do something like 2aa 5b 5cd 6c j2c 5b 5cc but combo seems to drop. What are you guys doing? I know that 2a can be confirmed easily if the opponent is standing but would if they are crouching?

[Errol]

~6C>JC>5C(w)C

~6BD>3C>BBL>stuff

[GoBL1N]

Thank yoU! Ok so

2aa 5b 5cd 6c jc 5b 5cc? (what's the (w) mean?)

The second one I'm not quite as confident that I understood...

2aa 5b 5cd 6c 6bd 3c BBL?

[muerto]

should be 

2aa 5b 5cd 6c j.C 5c(whiff)c (w)generally means that the attack should whiff aka not hit the opponent

for the second

2aa5b 6bd 3c bbl stuff

from the bbl you can continue the combo a bit to get knockdown or damage like

2aa5b 6bd 3c bbl 66 6a4b (66) 5cc