Ragna Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[MashThat5A]

Yeah 6C I know I'm really bad about over-using and am trying to get out of it. I think I found an acceptable use for it as a frame trap in the corner if I believe it'll get blocked, dashing out of it after the first hit into a throw but I'm trying to get out of the habit of just dashing in and tossing it out there at mid-screen like I've been doing.

That's actually really, really risky. But it works every now and then as a mind fuck. If people are looking for it, they can punish you hard,

[Callisto]

Glad you asked.

If you get blocked, finish your stuff with Deadspike, 2D or Gauntlet Hades.

If you hit something and have no idea what to do next, just Hell's Fang.

Just dont say NO to any damage/combo opportunity.

Is Hell's Fang more or less going to be the ender of the string? I know I see things here and there like using GH in a string but not doing the 214D follow-up, and I was a little confused on if I should always be doing the follow-up for that extra damage/health drain or if there's times where I'd counter > xx > Hell's Fang > other stuff.

[Tong]

2C chains into 6C, even on block.

Standalone 6C is way too unsafe. 6C dash cancel into throw is punishable BIG time, but works as a gimmick after you've conditioned your opponent to block alot.

6C's second hit cancels into jump on block too, and it is pretty useful.

[Tong]

Is Hell's Fang more or less going to be the ender of the string? I know I see things here and there like using GH in a string but not doing the 214D follow-up, and I was a little confused on if I should always be doing the follow-up for that extra damage/health drain or if there's times where I'd counter > xx > Hell's Fang > other stuff.

On hit, yes.

Pure and plain GH cant be combo into anything, except for the followup (214D).

On block, however, the followup MAY stuff and counter hit if the opp tries anything but it's way too risky to even try.

GH is win/lose, you may hit and score a combo or get creamed.

[Callisto]

Another thing I've been meaning to ask for awhile, I have like no oki game at all outside of trying to surprise with a throw, what's my best bet for moves to throw out on wakeups?

[Tong]

Deadspike at safe distance, 5B, 6D, j.C are very good to start pressure.

If you want to get offensive , 6B(overhead) is great.

In case your opponent refuses to get up, pick them with 22C.

[Callisto]

That leads into my next lol, is there a way to do something after Not Over Yet without using RC?

edit: herpderp just found the answer in the 101 thread, gotta work on my reading a bit

Edited August 9, 2011 by Callisto

[Callisto]

So uhh, looking for some unbiased opinions here...

This clip:

Goes with these messages:

So I guess I need to ask, was I actually scrubbing it up/abusing things that badly, or was this guy somehow just salty as fuck despite the fact that he won?

edit: unrelated, but if anyone wants to kick the shit out of me I'll be on xbl for another hour or two

Edited August 10, 2011 by Callisto

[Tong]

Both have same skill level imo. Practice with this guy all the time and learn better combos to improve your gameplay.

Mirror matches are a great way to learn what stuff is unsafe or not, because you can also spot these in your opponent, be it in the form of getting punished or punishing him.

Not sure what he meant, but he was as 'good' as you.

[Callisto]

If I'm not mistaken, he meant that I was somehow using 'cheap' combos by using the normal bnbs that you learn in training mode and that I was scrubby for doing so, lol, and that he somehow felt he was so much better than me that he should have declined the match had his controller not ran out of batteries. I do actually spend time trying to make combos that fit my own style of play, like how I came up with the 2nd DID after wall bounce since I drop the other follow-ups, I just was looking for an opinion on if I was doing something cheap by using things like B > C > Hell's Fang when he left it wide open and I needed to make up some ground.

[KayEff]

Who the fuck cares if you use the challenge mode combos? Do whatever you need to do to win.

If your opponent lost, then he's made more bad choices or made more screwups than you, and you shouldn't have to feel sorry about that. This is especially evident with a character like Ragna who has to stick to his core mechanics to play efficiently and well. In other words, you can't complain that you got cheesed out if you lost to Ragna, given how terrible his gameplay is.

If he's complaining about how you use an optimal and practical BnB such as, for example, B > C > Hell's Fang, then tell him to go suck a dick. Everyone uses it and they're not ashamed about the level of difficulty that the combo requires, as long as it works.

[Callisto]

That's more or less what I was wondering, for the longest time all of my online/competitive play has been confined to player matches against a couple of friends, I'm pretty new to ranked stuff and didn't know if I was just cheesing it or what.

[KayEff]

If you're cheesing the opponent and you're winning, then that's not something you need to worry about. Sure, cheesing the opponent may not be the best way to play a fighting game, but if it's working, then you might as well use it for as long as it works.

You only need to worry about how you play if you're losing. Then you can go figure out new things to replace cheesing your opponent and increase your chances of winning.

[Tong]

If ABC Hell's Fang is cheap, theni dont know what 5k+ stuff is...

Btw, Callisto did a wonderful job in not dropping most of his combos. That's how it is, time will come and you'll feel when you get comfortable enough to learn and use new and more damaging stuff.

Not-dropping is very important.

[KayEff]

what about midscreen game

[Callisto]

Or lack thereof lol, that's where I have a lot of trouble and eventually resort to shit I know I shouldn't do like dashing in with 6C or random Hell's Fangs. I feel like I'm pretty strong from a bit outside of starting positions on to the corner, but do have a rough time in the middle.

[KayEff]

I don't think lack of midscreen game is important.

[Callisto]

Another from my ranked matches last night...I set the matchmaking to 'people stronger than me' for most the night before doing player matches with a buddy, needless to say I got blown the hell up a pretty fair amount lol, but this one I think I did pretty alright in since I'm normally awful against Tager:

Curious about how to actually approach him, at some point I always eventually get impatient and run right into a command grab no matter how much I tell myself not to. What's the safest way to get in on him?

[VR-Raiden]

If you approach from the air as he gets up from being knocked down, he can't grab you. Try to time an air attack so that it connects as he finishes getting up, so he either has to block it or back dash away.

[Callisto]

Do his command grabs not work on jumping targets in general?

[VR-Raiden]

Do his command grabs not work on jumping targets in general?

The way his command grabs (and all ground throws in most fighting games) work is they can only connect on a grounded opponent. If you are airborne or just starting to become airborne, you will not get grabbed and he will whiff.

Tager does have an unblockable "anti-air" grab of sorts, called Atomic Collider. That move will grab you out of the air (and only the air), but if you have an attack already on top of him he won't have time to do it before getting hit.

Edited August 10, 2011 by VR-Raiden

[Callisto]

That's a huge help, thanks! A bit later I'll probably have a video of me getting absolutely wrecked by a Tao, the guy perfected me like 5 straight rounds and I'm at a total loss on what to do with that matchup lol...

[Tong]

Why are you backjumping?

Tager is the one who should be doing this. Ragna has several ways to safely approach Tager and start pressure.

Dont be afraid to dash 5B his face. I like to "whip" Tagers, by doing 5C(max range) 2C(whiff) x N. Stuff alot of his stuff and keep them honest.

And please, dont keep standing in front of him after a tech or try anything, he'll most likely 720/360 you. And mix your strings a little bit more, instead of 5B 5C Hell's Fang, try 5B 2B 2C 5C 2D for example, Ragna can be really unpredicable. Dont forget to mix into overhead(6B), trust me, overheads are good.

Safe ways?

-Max range j.C. As soon he blocks and you land, dash 5B xxx. If you score a hit, combo.

-Plain and old 5B will also do.

-If he gets knocked down, you can just jump in j.C freely.

Thats pretty much it.

[KayEff]

Tager is the one who should be doing this. Ragna has several ways to safely approach Tager and start pressure.

Actually Tager can trump most of your approaches provided the player knows the matchup. He can use 2C, 623C or backdash on any jump ins you do, and he can use backdash 360A for any openings that you leave in your pressure (and by the way, Ragna has a lot). Tager's backdash may not be the best tool to get out of situations, but for what it's worth it works really well against Ragna's tools. The only thing Tager can't do anything about is footsies, that is, until he gets Spark Bolt. Don't be afraid to use that, and if one of those footsies hit, you can confirm into a Hell's Fang for a tiny bit of oki.

You can use j.C every time on his wakeup, but eventually the Tager player will find a way out of the pressure that you follow afterwards. There is no situation in fighting games where one solution will always work. Tager players can backdash after their wakeup and that would force your j.C to whiff. When that happens, you're pretty much eating a free command grab.

Ragna's overhead is terrible by the way. It'll only work to someone who can't block.

[VR-Raiden]

Tager players can backdash after their wakeup and that would force your j.C to whiff. When that happens, you're pretty much eating a free command grab.

I'm sure you know this already but I want to point out, if you do the j.C far away enough he will be too far to command grab you after he backdashes it. Unless you're magnetized I guess.

Ragna's overhead is terrible by the way. It'll only work to someone who can't block.

Like me!

TK BE (2147C) is another way to avoid getting grabbed after he wakes up. Or just plain jumping right before he finishes teching, if he went for a grab you can punish him for whiffing it.

Edited August 10, 2011 by VR-Raiden