The Good, the Bad, and Ugly as Hell Baiken Matchups

[suru]

When u rush him down, its a very quick change from getting in and being having pot be in.

^ t3h truth. I'm sure Baiken players notice the reverse of this in a lot of matchups: sometimes you don't have to worry about getting in on the opponent, because if they fuck up when rushing you down, one good guard cancel and _you're_ rushing _them_ down.

In my experience, j.h xx j.236k is dangerous. I don't know if it's because I suck at doing it, or because the Pots I play against are better at IB-buster. All I know is that whenever I try this, I will eat a pot buster almost every time. Both j.h and j.236k are slow, easily punishable moves.

I don't know how many frames of blockstun j.236k is worth, but air tatami has 12f of recovery after landing, so you're in bad shape after the tatami either way.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

eh, maybe yall are right. Im more comfortable rushin pot down than zoning/footsie him. My biggest fear is gettin backdown into a corner and then watchin pot rape my precious baiken...

Ive only played against dizzy once and i got peaced before i could find out anything(thanks Alex G) bout this matchup. Can some1 help me out with this?

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

eh, maybe yall are right. Im more comfortable rushin pot down than zoning/footsie him. My biggest fear is gettin backdown into a corner and then watchin pot rape my precious baiken...

Ive only played against dizzy once and i got peaced before i could find out anything(thanks Alex G) bout this matchup. Can some1 help me out with this?

*SDV*

[Urzakor]

don't run away from dizzy... because u can't. Dizzy has a crappy 6p and very little defense once u get in. take advatnage of those facts and watch out for her throws. 6k.

[Urzakor]

don't run away from dizzy... because u can't. Dizzy has a crappy 6p and very little defense once u get in. take advatnage of those facts and watch out for her throws. 6k.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

urzakor and suru please go read the last page of Potemkin's matchup thread...

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

urzakor and suru please go read the last page of Potemkin's matchup thread...

*SDV*

[Zakuta Asura]

You have to rush down Potemkin, do you actually have any other choice? lol - No use Baiken hanging around because there's nothing she can do to provoke action from Potemkin other than getting in and doing something.

I wouldn't say j.H xx Tatami is a useless tool against him though. Baiken players can still get away with it. Never have I seen matches where she gets busted every time. Maybe because Baiken has a few other options? I dunno. It's alright to use once in a while because it raises the guard meter up a bit...and that's really what you want to do against a character with high stamina.

THE main reason why Baiken loses out in this match is because she simply cannot make any mistakes - PB is like, half your bar. Don't factor that and you'll get squished. :P

If you are using Tatami at mid-max range, then rest asured that you won't get busted. :D

[Zakuta Asura]

You have to rush down Potemkin, do you actually have any other choice? lol - No use Baiken hanging around because there's nothing she can do to provoke action from Potemkin other than getting in and doing something.

I wouldn't say j.H xx Tatami is a useless tool against him though. Baiken players can still get away with it. Never have I seen matches where she gets busted every time. Maybe because Baiken has a few other options? I dunno. It's alright to use once in a while because it raises the guard meter up a bit...and that's really what you want to do against a character with high stamina.

THE main reason why Baiken loses out in this match is because she simply cannot make any mistakes - PB is like, half your bar. Don't factor that and you'll get squished. :P

If you are using Tatami at mid-max range, then rest asured that you won't get busted. :D

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

actually the closer the better cause it may tempt the pot player to go for a PB which will miss and land him a CH j.HS-T.mat to the grill...

Oh if you try anythin other than a jump or BD you will get PB same as with counters if your not careful^^

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

actually the closer the better cause it may tempt the pot player to go for a PB which will miss and land him a CH j.HS-T.mat to the grill...

Oh if you try anythin other than a jump or BD you will get PB same as with counters if your not careful^^

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

Vs. Sol

I play this match just like i would play ky but jump even less. I do believe j.s will beat out most of sol's air attacks. I only guard cancel after a missed gunflame frc and other overly obvious situations in which a guard cancel is safe. I give this match a slight edge to sol (5.5/4.5) simply becuase of VV.

more on vs. Ino

Dont let her get comfortable stay in her face and mix up with high's and lows and point blank jump j.hs. All jump ins with a slight distance away from her head can be stopped by her 6p(which is easy half lifebar with 25% tension). always block low and guard the highs on reaction. If does a double quick dash try to OS throw between them. Edge to baiken because she can actually get more random hits for dmg than Ino.

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

Vs. Sol

I play this match just like i would play ky but jump even less. I do believe j.s will beat out most of sol's air attacks. I only guard cancel after a missed gunflame frc and other overly obvious situations in which a guard cancel is safe. I give this match a slight edge to sol (5.5/4.5) simply becuase of VV.

more on vs. Ino

Dont let her get comfortable stay in her face and mix up with high's and lows and point blank jump j.hs. All jump ins with a slight distance away from her head can be stopped by her 6p(which is easy half lifebar with 25% tension). always block low and guard the highs on reaction. If does a double quick dash try to OS throw between them. Edge to baiken because she can actually get more random hits for dmg than Ino.

*SDV*

[suru]

j.236k has 12f of recovery on landing. I'm not sure if this is long enough for buster to be guaranteed, but it's certainly long enough for him to buster you out of anything else you could be trying. If you always hold up after j.236k, you get punished for jumping (ie. heat knuckle).

In any case, j.h xx j.236k doesn't leave you with a lot of options, because the only thing you can risk after doing that is jumping, and that's not even a good option. I refuse to believe that you can spend all match doing j.h xx j.236k and not get punished hard.

Sol:

The Baiken vs. Sol matchup is no good for Baiken. While the dp is nasty, my primary annoyance is his stupidly good 2d - it pretty much removes your ability to play footsies/rushdown, because the moment he's not in block/hitstun he can stick out 2d at basically no risk, with like 90% confidence that he'll beat whatever you're about to do next. This means you spend most of the match trying to keep Sol from getting in on you. Also, 2d beats both sakura and yoshijin, so any string that leads to 2d is safe from GC.

On the other hand, you can punish Sol hard pretty easily for doing a few things. Bandit revolver can be 6p/5s(f)/5h'd on reaction, and leads to huge damage. For instance:

from close: 5h (counter-hit), run, 6h-2d JC j.s-d > dustloop if in corner

from far away: 5s(f) (counter-hit) JC iad.236k, hj.s-d > dustloop if in corner

Riot stomp eats 6p for free, but a good Sol won't use this unless he's in the corner, and it can be hard to see in that case.

Your air beats his air pretty hard. Heck, at max range j.s will clash/beat VV. Also, Sol doesn't have a long-range projectile to punish you for jumping around or laying mats, so it's slightly different from Ky in this respect. There's still the problem of the running dp, but it's not quite the weapon that stun edge is.

I-no:

Playing keepaway is generally a losing battle. 6p beats a lot of stuff (for instance, chem-ai). Lay off on the mats, because they get punished for free by chem-ai up to 3/4 fullscreen. 2s beats Stroke the Big Tree (combos to 236k on counter hit), watch out for FRC throw. Smart use of standing 236k is good, as I-no will often run herself into it. Yoshijin seems like it would be good against her since she's often coming in at you from the air, and sometimes it can be, but it's not nearly invulnerable enough to be a catch-all response - use sparingly.

[suru]

j.236k has 12f of recovery on landing. I'm not sure if this is long enough for buster to be guaranteed, but it's certainly long enough for him to buster you out of anything else you could be trying. If you always hold up after j.236k, you get punished for jumping (ie. heat knuckle).

In any case, j.h xx j.236k doesn't leave you with a lot of options, because the only thing you can risk after doing that is jumping, and that's not even a good option. I refuse to believe that you can spend all match doing j.h xx j.236k and not get punished hard.

Sol:

The Baiken vs. Sol matchup is no good for Baiken. While the dp is nasty, my primary annoyance is his stupidly good 2d - it pretty much removes your ability to play footsies/rushdown, because the moment he's not in block/hitstun he can stick out 2d at basically no risk, with like 90% confidence that he'll beat whatever you're about to do next. This means you spend most of the match trying to keep Sol from getting in on you. Also, 2d beats both sakura and yoshijin, so any string that leads to 2d is safe from GC.

On the other hand, you can punish Sol hard pretty easily for doing a few things. Bandit revolver can be 6p/5s(f)/5h'd on reaction, and leads to huge damage. For instance:

from close: 5h (counter-hit), run, 6h-2d JC j.s-d > dustloop if in corner

from far away: 5s(f) (counter-hit) JC iad.236k, hj.s-d > dustloop if in corner

Riot stomp eats 6p for free, but a good Sol won't use this unless he's in the corner, and it can be hard to see in that case.

Your air beats his air pretty hard. Heck, at max range j.s will clash/beat VV. Also, Sol doesn't have a long-range projectile to punish you for jumping around or laying mats, so it's slightly different from Ky in this respect. There's still the problem of the running dp, but it's not quite the weapon that stun edge is.

I-no:

Playing keepaway is generally a losing battle. 6p beats a lot of stuff (for instance, chem-ai). Lay off on the mats, because they get punished for free by chem-ai up to 3/4 fullscreen. 2s beats Stroke the Big Tree (combos to 236k on counter hit), watch out for FRC throw. Smart use of standing 236k is good, as I-no will often run herself into it. Yoshijin seems like it would be good against her since she's often coming in at you from the air, and sometimes it can be, but it's not nearly invulnerable enough to be a catch-all response - use sparingly.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

YOU CANT BE POT BUSTERED AFTER j.hs-236K IF YOU JUMP(dont even have to be extremely quick about it nor will you get heat knuckled ^^), BACKDASH(watch out for 6hs), and possible 6K(didnt test this out enough). No you cant j.hs-236K all day...technically. You can be punished with 6p(double jump j.hs-236k is your friend in this case) and occasionally 2hs(this wierd as sometimes it works for pot and sometimes itll get him CH. I believe is based on how deep baiken's j.hs jump in is) into heat knuckle. Both players have to have thier shit together to win this match but pot less so than baiken simply for the damage reason.

Suru-Im assumin your talkin bout the Pcounter vs. Ino? If so i dont like that one at all. I catch ino more with Scounter and get behind her with Kcounter more often than hittin her with Pcounter and rarely for CH<_<. Id much rather sit there and block her ish with FD and try and iad back Tmat which was extremely effective this past weekend.

Oh yeah Ino 2.s is a bitch. Anybody knows what stops it outright?

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

YOU CANT BE POT BUSTERED AFTER j.hs-236K IF YOU JUMP(dont even have to be extremely quick about it nor will you get heat knuckled ^^), BACKDASH(watch out for 6hs), and possible 6K(didnt test this out enough). No you cant j.hs-236K all day...technically. You can be punished with 6p(double jump j.hs-236k is your friend in this case) and occasionally 2hs(this wierd as sometimes it works for pot and sometimes itll get him CH. I believe is based on how deep baiken's j.hs jump in is) into heat knuckle. Both players have to have thier shit together to win this match but pot less so than baiken simply for the damage reason.

Suru-Im assumin your talkin bout the Pcounter vs. Ino? If so i dont like that one at all. I catch ino more with Scounter and get behind her with Kcounter more often than hittin her with Pcounter and rarely for CH<_<. Id much rather sit there and block her ish with FD and try and iad back Tmat which was extremely effective this past weekend.

Oh yeah Ino 2.s is a bitch. Anybody knows what stops it outright?

*SDV*

[SH_]

here's my personal 2 cents for the record,

Pot: rushdown is good, don't make mistakes, p buster hurts, if you face an IB Pot player he can p buster you for free after j.HS - tatami and if it's not done in the corner, it can be backdashed regardless of IB or no = free pot buster so it's pretty risky.

Sol: he can't just "stick out 2D with no ill effect" as some people seem to believe, it's space dependent for the most part, you can catch him on the tail end of his counter if you do a late sakura (not for combo reasons, just for knockdown and advantage), from a far range 6K will CH it, or you can just play a spacing game prediction wise with 6HS. Uppercut is just a matter of when you expect your opponent to do it (which can be a good portion of the time) and you can really bait it out and hit them hard, you'll make it harder for your opponent to want to DP than just take the rushdown at wakeup without the risk of eating big damage for DPing.

Ino: I personally think Ino has a hard ass time of this matchup in general just because of the great options Baiken has once blocking, free note rushdown isn't guaranteed even if it's meaty, once she actually starts doing things, counters are scary (as long as your D skillz are to the point where you can at least get that initial block in on Ino), I personally think Tatami can control space far better than any of Ino's moves to the contrary, and let's not forget the fact that she just can't use chemical love as a poke against Baiken because she is just flat out too short.

random extra matchup- Robo Ky: he likes going low with 2K, she can 6K and hurt him on the stagger (while keeping in mind HS executes in 4 frames and on counter gives him a great guessing game), she can run under air missiles, if your opponent thinks to do 2HS as anti air as a prediction tool, you can get free 6HSs but there are still plenty of things that make this matchup hard, like trying to out poke them with f.S or 6P from Robo being out, just try hard to avoid oki situations from Robo because that is where he can make a living.

[SH_]

here's my personal 2 cents for the record,

Pot: rushdown is good, don't make mistakes, p buster hurts, if you face an IB Pot player he can p buster you for free after j.HS - tatami and if it's not done in the corner, it can be backdashed regardless of IB or no = free pot buster so it's pretty risky.

Sol: he can't just "stick out 2D with no ill effect" as some people seem to believe, it's space dependent for the most part, you can catch him on the tail end of his counter if you do a late sakura (not for combo reasons, just for knockdown and advantage), from a far range 6K will CH it, or you can just play a spacing game prediction wise with 6HS. Uppercut is just a matter of when you expect your opponent to do it (which can be a good portion of the time) and you can really bait it out and hit them hard, you'll make it harder for your opponent to want to DP than just take the rushdown at wakeup without the risk of eating big damage for DPing.

Ino: I personally think Ino has a hard ass time of this matchup in general just because of the great options Baiken has once blocking, free note rushdown isn't guaranteed even if it's meaty, once she actually starts doing things, counters are scary (as long as your D skillz are to the point where you can at least get that initial block in on Ino), I personally think Tatami can control space far better than any of Ino's moves to the contrary, and let's not forget the fact that she just can't use chemical love as a poke against Baiken because she is just flat out too short.

random extra matchup- Robo Ky: he likes going low with 2K, she can 6K and hurt him on the stagger (while keeping in mind HS executes in 4 frames and on counter gives him a great guessing game), she can run under air missiles, if your opponent thinks to do 2HS as anti air as a prediction tool, you can get free 6HSs but there are still plenty of things that make this matchup hard, like trying to out poke them with f.S or 6P from Robo being out, just try hard to avoid oki situations from Robo because that is where he can make a living.

[suru]

I'm pretty sure sakura only hits against 2d while Sol is recovering, so you'd have to sakura the 2d itself, and this is not a good idea (gunflame will trade - advantage Sol, and Bandit just goes over it). 6k will only beat 2d if a) you do it first, and b) you're doing it at max range. 6h is risky to be playing guessing games with. 2d isn't an unbeatable move, but a lot of the time he just sticks it out and wins for free.

[suru]

I'm pretty sure sakura only hits against 2d while Sol is recovering, so you'd have to sakura the 2d itself, and this is not a good idea (gunflame will trade - advantage Sol, and Bandit just goes over it). 6k will only beat 2d if a) you do it first, and b) you're doing it at max range. 6h is risky to be playing guessing games with. 2d isn't an unbeatable move, but a lot of the time he just sticks it out and wins for free.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

grr....pot cant pbuster you outta j.hs-tatami dammit

*SDV*

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

grr....pot cant pbuster you outta j.hs-tatami dammit

*SDV*

[SH_]

you can actually see the 2D, to counter it, you have to do it later anyhow to hit his recovery so if you see gunflame, BB, or BR, you can buffer K counter and punish gunflame (non FRC), and be at neutral if he BB or BR's, even if Sol blocks 6K you get +2 on block, which means your 5 frame 2K will beat almost anything he does (it will beat standing K, but will lose to random ass VV). Yes the 6K beating 2D is situational but there are very few things that beat something else 100% of the time, especially amont certain characters, like Baiken so yes it's situational, oh know, you have to think, how cruel. There are situations where yes, 2d will win, that's why you have to discourage your opponent from using it or set up situations where the move isn't that effective, if your losing to 5K, then don't hang out where 5K will hit you, or find situations where your things will beat his thing, very straight foward.

[SH_]

you can actually see the 2D, to counter it, you have to do it later anyhow to hit his recovery so if you see gunflame, BB, or BR, you can buffer K counter and punish gunflame (non FRC), and be at neutral if he BB or BR's, even if Sol blocks 6K you get +2 on block, which means your 5 frame 2K will beat almost anything he does (it will beat standing K, but will lose to random ass VV). Yes the 6K beating 2D is situational but there are very few things that beat something else 100% of the time, especially amont certain characters, like Baiken so yes it's situational, oh know, you have to think, how cruel. There are situations where yes, 2d will win, that's why you have to discourage your opponent from using it or set up situations where the move isn't that effective, if your losing to 5K, then don't hang out where 5K will hit you, or find situations where your things will beat his thing, very straight foward.