Hellmonkey

Thanks for the HnK matches

I'm planning to make it to this, as I'm in New York now.

Great combos, cool video!

Hi Marble, welcome to the Baiken forum, glad to see another player here! Sorry for the somewhat delayed response. Indeed as you have figured out Baiken's combos are very specific based on how far they begin from the corner. There is no straightforward answer to your question about having an additional 25% meter, but I will point out some of the fundamentals that might help understand the trade-offs in that situation. I would like to point out first of all that just because you have 25% doesn't mean you should blow it on a combo. Particularly for characters with more health (i.e. lower damage modifier such as Robo-Ky), you might want to save that meter for a full combo if you land a hit after your knock-down (this situation is known as okizeme, or wake-up game). The damage you get from a reset into a full combo is significantly more than the small damage you tack on at the end of your combo. Furthermore, your meter gain is shunted for a while after using an RC or FRC, so that is another good reason not to throw them in unnecessarily. If you do want to blow that extra meter, the easiest solution is to find out which moves with low GB- you can throw in your combo. Particularly, 6H, j.D, 5H, j.H, and tatami are all great to use, and the full chart can be found in her frame data. For example, after landing near the corner you could add a rep with 6H j.D FRC airdash j.H j.tatami, but as you have noticed the side-switching can be tricky so you may have to jump forward or backwards, or adjust the combo timing as fits to ensure a knockdown. The exact timing and best move to use can be character specific due to differing weights. Generally it is a good idea to do a j.K jc j.H j.tatami repetition when available because it is free damage for zero meter. Typically a meterless option is your best bet in order to save that meter for a new combo, safe guard cancels, faultless defense to push them away and air-block, or even a super to make your killing blow unburstable.

What exactly are you having trouble with? I imagine Baiken could approach fairly easily from the ground or by run-jumping, if you guess correctly you'll avoid whichever projectile she threw out first. From there you have many options in the air or running up to them on the ground, like looking for a guard cancel or j.S or double jump j.H/airdash back tatami if you're in the air. j.S hitbox hits her from pretty much everywhere IIRC, and you can connect a j.D from correct positioning as well. It's pretty much a projectile dodging game and when you land hits it does boat loads of damage so you try not to waste your meter too much on FD.

Corner throw range concern Your'e correct, tatami straight from throw works at a decent range outside the corner. I like your running 5S followup, as I have been using 2D, and running 5S is a bit easier execution. You still need to be within range to have a c.5S instead of f.5S though, or you cannot continue tensionless. For example, if you knock down out of the corner with 6P suzuran zakuro, then throw them on their wakeup back into the corner, you can be close enough for a tatami but not close enough for the tensionless followup. This gives Baiken less range on her meterless throw combo than simply using running 2k 5s > dustloop like in AC, losing some range to +R. I don't think there is a solution as good as AC for this one, running 6P doesn't work at that range, nor 2k 6P. Also for Axl throw -> tatami or 6P doesn't work at all, but I found you can do running 5HS tatami and as long as you land the following j.K link you still get a knockdown (137 damage throw Axl) I don't know if an easier one exists for him. Stoneroth: There is another method of corner carrying if you don't like to j.tatami FRC (I personally use other tools over this one if I can) Running j.SD pick-up after low j.tatami From nearly full screen 25%: 6P j.K > jc j.H > j.tatami (low) > running j.SD FRC > airdash j.tatami > j.K > jc j.H > j.tatami (crossup) > 6P suzuran zakuro (195 dmg VE) From full screen 50%: 6P j.K jc j.H j.tatami running j.SD FRC airdash j.tatami sj.SD FRC airdash j.H tatami 6P suzuran zakuro (209 VE) This version doesn't work on the lighter characters, you're better off playing with j.K j.tatami or zakuro loop for them. If you're anywhere near the corner you can also go for tensionless: 6P j.K jc j.H j.tatami [running j.PK jc j.H j.tatami 6P suzuran zakuro.] I believe this is the "easiest" form of this combo, although running 5S or 2D to replace running j.P in the bracketed section both work on most hitboxes closer to the corner. The bracketed section of the combo can begin with: running j.PK, running 5S or 2D, or straight to (running, forward jump, or neutral jump) j.K based on the spacing. 6P> j.SD FRC > continue is always an option midscreen, although extremely hard to follow up as you get further from the corner. However, If you do decide to do a tension combo when in meterless-range, surely you should use 6P > (j.SD or j.D) FRC ad (j.tatami or j.h tatami) such that you land in front of them for a 6H > 2D, or straight 6H for the characters easy to follow up with j.K > jc j.H j.tatami and maintain your knockdown. Want to blow all your meter? For even further meter usage, use 6H j.D frc j.H j.tatami instead of going to j.K jc j.H j.tatami repetition. Difficulty compared to other full-screen options? I haven't found great bnb combos using wallbounce - kabari in full to mid screen, i feel like her other variations are more stable. I haven't played enough with j.tatami FRC combos to know all their benefits, but perhaps this is the best stable option for even more ranges. I also haven't compared the damages yet but they should be similar. The run-jump timing can be quite sensitive, as well as delaying j.H and j.tatami timings as required, although these are quite easy to adjust to once you get intuition from trying the combos. The j.H j.tatami is very fundamental to her combos IMO. Combo discussion? As for where all this discussion belongs, I think it's fine to have combo and strategy discussion in this thread until (and if) we establish an official +R guide. +R combos do not seem anywhere near as straightforward as AC. I can merge combo related information away once a guide is completed.

I've been playing around with it more and I see what you mean about suzuran sakura FRC being too range dependent. It probably isn't worth investigating too closely except for some cool looking combos as you say. One exception is using 75% to sakura FRC suzuran baku > followup to get the Baku effect from even a 2K. FB tatami FRC seems like a much better option for this situation but I'm not sure about a reliable followup from many distances, as it seems quite character specific. I like using airdash low hitting j.H which gives you a ton of time to follow up, but will require some more meter to continue the combo in many cases. There are some other combo problems I've run into, like finding a reliable corner throw combo on venom due to not being able to tatami directly from throw. Running 2K 6P suzuran zakuro works, as well as youshijin run 6P suzuran zakuro if you're deep, but if you're spaced a bit from the wall I don't know if a great tensionless solution exists. @Stoneroth I'll look into 6P antiair combos as well when I get more time for training mode.

Thanks for the great post Shinjin, definitely looking forward to the new video! Have you played much with FB Tatami FRC? I'm not yet sure what the best option is from a far 5H, perhaps suzuran sakura FRC could lead to better options.

I've played around with +R Baiken in training, but haven't had enough experience against people to write up a meaningful new guide for +R. Most of the new stuff has been mentioned in forum posts. Most of the hitboxes are the same as AC although she has new tools, to name a few: - suzuran into counters without blocking - faster antiair counter but loss of youshijin. -sped up sakura but no strike invincibility. -j.K jc j.H j.tatami meterless combos. -6P -> suzuran 412p ender for knockdowns at the end of combos -2K>6P>6K links -6H damage un-nerfed And some changes of hers: -no fast universal youshijin counter, has to sakura against ground or 412p against airborne. -mawarikomi nerfed (presumably because she can now 63214K suzuran -> counter without blocking) -j.D can be recovered from much more quickly than previously Unfortunately I can't say which of her new tools are the most useful, however in the games I have played I found she has to spend meter more often than before to get knockdowns in the corner, and her midscreen combos are harder to execute. Her potential near the corner seems to be higher and using airdash j.H j.tatami works from many heights now. You still get huge damage from youzansen RC combos near the corner, so her 50/50 is really good with 2k and youzansen (overhead). kabari (chain) now has a sliding hit which I don't really like compared to the old normal hit, but it does still allow you to pick up after for a combo. j.D is still a great zoning tool even if it doesn't have as much untechable time as AC, and 2S still has its great hitbox. Her corner combo changed quite a bit, now it's usually throw>tatami mat>2D>j.K>jc>j.H>j.tatami>6p(away from wall)>suzuran(63214K)>zakuro (new 214P cancel)

Huge Ogawa set @ http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/b/506727453?t=61m Zato is looking awesome. Love the new combo in the corner into 5D > wallstick > 2D > 2s 5s 5h drill. Mid screen 5H(3) drill looks so good. New gallery combos are great, especially from the unblockable j.H + eddie drill.

Sorry for the confusion, there is no way I know of to jump install your super-jumps from neutral. I have yet to find a common situation that would require jump installing on Baiken. I was just referring to using a normal jump -> j.D (usually run-jump for spacing), and jumping at the lowest possible height similar to the timing of an airdash in her old dustloops. You can mix this up with neutral SJ>j.D if you plan to airdash at the lowest possible height instead, as it will get your j.D out where you want it slightly quicker. The Safety option here would be airdash back j.S. If you do airdash at them like this you might be too low for a j.s j.tatami (Greedy, as it's not a guaranteed string anyways. Really only useful for fishing for counter-hits from higher up) so you might consider j.S(delay)PK to hit the j.K as low as possible to negate the landing recovery by keeping them in blockstun as long as possible. Airdashing with a j.P could be a better option if they're close enough. In this situation going for the low j.K > j.D is not as strong as a mixup because you can't land and immediately 2K/2D.

Just to add on to the Youzansen discussion, there are a number of moves that give landing recovery after being used in the air and this can always be negated by double jumping, but never by airdashing. j.D is the best example of this (universal), which you may have noticed from baiken's dustloops in previous games. Technically it could be possible to negate youzansen's landing recovery by jump installing so even if you get the superjump youzansen you could still do something like RC j.K > double jump, however if you're going to be blowing the meter after youzansen for a combo from mid screen you probably just want to j.(S)D FRC airdash tatami. If you're already in the corner, you can go more directly into her corner loop, throwing in 6H depending on the spacing. The one area of this game this actually does have a big impact on is the use of j.D from neutral, which is very strong in general due to its hitbox and speed. By timing your double jump before landing, you can reduce the risk of getting capitalized on from the landing recovery, and in fact if an opponent seeks to punish you it can open up offensive options like airdashing at them low to the ground when they think you might not be able to act in time.

I've been pretty busy, and it's hard to tell the turnout at these events. Definitely plan to make it out there tomorrow then.

Anyone gonna make it this week for GG?

I'll try to make it to this tomorrow