[CF] Kagura Mutsuki Information

[-Seo]

For info relating to BBCF and Kagura. Loketest runs from 19th-20th.

 

 

• Exceed Accel: Kouryuu "Genma Rettouzan" (ABCD During Overdrive)
• Ryuurenbu (8 charge 2 +C in midair or during Ryuujinshou/Fafner/Dragon's Ascent)
• 3C floats lower, can only be followed up by 2DB
• 6DC hit effect changed, now works like OD version (causes slide)
• j.C is VERY slow, doesn't cause stagger on ground hit
• 5C/2C/6C are MUCH faster
• 2C causes slide effect on ground hit
• Knockdown on [8]2C is short, similar to hizansen
• A ryuubakusen is faster, might go further
• A ryuubakusen hit effect changed, 5DA>[4]6A>5B doesn't work
• 5DA wallstick reduced
• C fafnir no longer causes wallstick
• B fafnir is slower, more recovery
• 6B>2C>2DC works
• No 6A gatlings
• j.C landing lag reduced
• j.C Counter Hit "slams" on hit. Difficult to follow up
• A ryuubakusen starts as 1 hit, after travelling becomes 2 hits
• A ryuubakusen knocks down on hit

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s356/sh/0db5e3e4-544f-4193-9c71-9ed6d38081a0/2fb307fe1b0d1b39e60cf5a5cd4c464f

 

Normals:

 

5C: Startup is faster, range is shorter. Can't combo into 6DA on air CH

2C: Startup is faster, can combo into it from 6B. Causes slide effect on ground hit

6C: Startup is faster. Range feels shorter(?). Doesn't seem to have head invuln

3C: Floats lower on hit, so you can't combo into 5DC,2DC or 6DC

j.C: Startup is slower, landing lag has been reduced (Almost 0!)

 

No changes to jump cancels and no additional gatlings added.

 

Drive:

 

5DA: Midscreen air hit knocks them further away. Can't tech it until you hit the ground

5DB: Damage up to 2200dmg. Blows them further away on hit.

5DC: Invuln doesn't seem changed. Hitbox behind you might be a tiny bit extended. Although you still don't turn around if the opponent passes by overhead.

6DC: On air hit, either floats them like 1.1 OD, but a little lower or causes a sliding effect, might have a clean hit mechanic, similar to Ragna's Belial edge or produce different effects dependant on when the stance is used (e.g. 6DC>2DC might be different to 2DC>6DC). Wall bounds on CH.

 

Specials:

Ryuubakusen: A orb moves faster, goes full screen. Knocksdown on ground hit. Starts of as 1 hit, after travelling a bit becomes 2 hits and eventually 3 hits.

B Fafnir: Startup increased, recovery increased. Invuln still the same

C Fafnir: No longer wallsticks, Extend Cfafnir combos not possible. Invuln still the same

 

New move:

Hits overhead! Knockdown is similar to Jin's Hizansen.

No height limit. Charge time is short 5B(8)B>j.2C will work for quick overhead.

Minus on block, but seems hard to be punished for because of the distance it opens up.

Can't be followed up on midscreen CH

In the corner, rc>5B will always hit, regardless of CH

 

Exceed Accel:

The deadly art, the Kagura-Copter!

 

Combos:

Midscreen: 5BB>2C>2DC>5DA. You can 6DA after the 5DA, but it seems character specific

Corner: 5BB>2C>5C>A orb>6B>5C>2DA>6DC>Cfaf(followup)

Midscreen: 2DA>5DA>6DA. Again, the 6DA feels character specific>

Corner: 5BB>2C>5C>A orb>dash2C>5C>2DA>5DA>6DA>Cfaf(followup) is 3200 damage, can replace dash 2C with 6B.

 

Misc:

Feels like a completely different character.

They got rid of his painful neutral + one-shot comeback damage playstyle, and he's become a character that sort of grinds you down in little increments by throwing out 5C willy-nilly and getting knockdowns from even anti-air Fafner/A mash ground hits.

The new overhead move especially... (if I say more Mori will notice, so rest is omitted).

It's like playing an entirely different character, and strong/weak talk aside, fun.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

This version of Kagura sounds absolutely awful. Now I'm still optimistic, however I don't really see anything "good" on thes changes.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Hold up.......does that mean 2DC does not work anymore after a 3C? And only that pretty much 5B > B > 3C > 2D B will just be an oki setup......arc sys why.......

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'll wait to see footage.

I was skeptical of Extend Kagura and later found him to be enjoyable.

My one question is if 5BB > 2C works. 

[Maadhum]

Looks like they're actually making changes to this characters neutral as opposed to just tweaking combo routes. Kinda worried about the 46A changes though. If it only hits once at point blank, it might not leave Kagura at frame advantage. 

[-Seo]

I'll wait to see footage.

I was skeptical of Extend Kagura and later found him to be enjoyable.

My one question is if 5BB > 2C works. 

 

5BB>2C is pretty much sounding like his go to stuff now, so yes it works. Added more info from the first loketest to the OP

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Mori........u just killed the dream.......

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Hey Seo, anything about his B orb link ability into combos? Or is it still mainly used as a projectile for zoning?

[Angry Guy of DE]

It sounds like Kagura's incredible damage from corner combos and confirms is going to be weaker.

C Fafnir not wall sticking pretty much sounds like its not good for corner combos anymore.

B Fafnir just seemingly got worse.

3C lost most of its utility straight up and is now just a sweep outside of comboing into 2DB.

5BB > 2C comboing is nice...but damage ability from that...?

I liked his bad neutral but amazing ability to just kill in 2 combos.  Dude has a big sword but has to "whittle" you down...what the hell?!?

[-Seo]

Hey, if 5C still does 1k on its own and is now much faster, I'll happily take that. I remember someone suggesting that his combo rate had been nerfed though, so damage overall would be lower, regardless of combo routes.

 

Hey Seo, anything about his B orb link ability into combos? Or is it still mainly used as a projectile for zoning?

 

Not heard anything about B orb, so I can only assume it works the same as Extend, so yeah probably won't be fitting into combos.

[DaiAndOh]

I'm really curious to see these faster ground normals myself actually! Interesting change of direction for him...

[-Seo]

The evernote that a good chunk of this info came from has been updated, so the OP has been edited a little too. It's mostly changes to 6DA and A orb.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Ground C normals seem to be faster but less range...

5BB (6B) can naturally combo into 2C...

I guess this means that they are at least 1-2 frames faster for that to connect.

If I'm reading frame data correctly:

Extend 2C : 18 Frame start-up

Extend 5BB (6B) : 17 frames of ground hit-stun

So if 2C got faster and not 5BB(6B) getting more hit-stun then I guess that's how it works?  2C is actually 1 frame faster than 5C at 19 frame start-up, still slow compared to Ragna's 13 frame start-up 5C so I dunno about "willy nilly" 5C pokes.

I want some Kagura footage.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

So correct me if i'm wrong here, but is 3C more of an ender in combos? Also since Fafner doesn't stick in corners anymore I feel like combos in corners will be hit or miss.

 

I to want to see kag footage! XD

[Angry Guy of DE]

The change to Cfafnir with the added follow-up option pretty much makes it seem like the 214D finisher of Ragna's ID.

I hope at least that 3C on air borne opponents (Such as 6C > 6DA > 3C) can allow more than 2DB or else it pretty much is just 3C > 2DB for CF.

3.2K in the corner off of 5B is really low for Kagura.  I know its still in loke tests so hopefully it'll get better in time but that might be the lowest corner damage that he's had.  It also makes it sound like Fafnir follow up doesn't give even frame advantage to do orb oki...even though A orb looks like it got worse in CF.


I probably won't be happy with Japanese Kagura footage because Japan doesn't seem to think much of the character and most footage of Extend Kagura is questionable with some of their combos and spacing.

 

[-Seo]

Well people seem to think his combo rate got nerfed too, probably as a way to compensate for faster C normals. Just any footage is all we need right now, personally I think he's sounding a lot better than he is right now.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Did 2C also lose stagger?

[Skye]

Yes

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

Did some Mock CF combos last night in the lab, I have to say they feel quite at home. (Mind you BBCPEX doesn't have the properties of what CF states) However going from 5BB > 2C > 5C > (4)6 A > felt pretty natural. I think CF Kagura may have some pretty lenient combo routes this time. Footage come soon!

 

I am really curious to what kind of Oki setups you can do in the corner for CF Kagura

[HolyOrderChipp]

So wait... What's distinctive about Kagura if he is changed to yet another generic low-damage character? I, for one, like high damage, and will pay the price of crappy neutral. Isn't that a cool identity for Kagura? I mean sure, redesigns are common; Team Blue doesn't seem to know what they want many characters to really be like. But still, what gives? Ok sure, he has big normals. So he's... A bootleg Ragna or something? What is Kagura supposed to be? I would love to get inside the minds of the leaders of Team Blue and find that out, if they even know what they want on that score. I mean, that's the central question here, right?

 

And does BlazBlue currently have another "very high damage, but crappy neutral" character? It's a cool archetype! I want to see it represented!

 

Really, the question I would pose is this: What's wrong with CPEX Kagura? He's neither too good nor too bad. He has a distinctive archetype. Does he have some really terrible gameplay somewhere? Some really distorted matchups? I mean honestly, does Team Blue just like changing things for the sake of changing things?

[Angry Guy of DE]

Well just try to wait for footage I guess...despite the fact that Kagura will still have poor neutral because he has T-rex limb syndrome.

Don't expect many things to get better in matchups though.

Hakumen will still just 4C you to death from full screen.

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

I feel like Kagura was going in the direction of a pseudo Ragna. This is really apparent in in Extend, the fact the Fafner sticks you to the wall like Rags C version ID then drops you down to continue combos. The inclusion of two Dps, even though one is just abysmal. Kagura in vanilla CP was probably the most unique, as you could link Both orbs into combos, and his drive links made him feel original.

I'm not sure if people know this or not, however ususally the first iteration of whatever bb game comes out, the balance is all story based. Any subsequent update after they try to make characters "balanced".

gosh how I miss B orb links......remember when you could link 2DA > (4)6B > that was just awesome....

[Tsukahara]

I feel like this might be the most viable version of Kagura yet.

 

The biggest struggle for Kagura has always been neutral, with nothing great to cover the space between 6b and 5c. I personally would most definitely take a version of Kagura with a much improved neutral game, assuming 2c and 5c are as fast as I hope. Right now it feels like we crush characters with weaker neutral than us, but any character with better neutral makes us cry. (Hold that Ragna 8 frame 5b)

 

I'd rather play and win neutral a few times with good pokes instead of trying to 2-hit KO people.

 

 

I disagree that Kagura is going the direction of Ragna though. Ragna's D version of ID is basically just used for combos, either damage midscreen or wallstick in the corner.His C dp is strictly worthwhile only as a reversal.

 

Kagura's C DP is basically everything it always was, Reversal, anti-air, and now a combo tool in the corner. The B version still has it's uses though, just as a better anti air. Leading to full combos off CH near the corner, and anti-airing with significantly less commitment. (Expect to die or spend your burst if people bait your C dp as an anti-air)

 

 

I don't feel like his combo theory has really changed that much since vanilla, we just traded wall bounces for wallsticks and moved drives around. I do wish B orbs were as good as they used to be though, hopefully that is one thing they bring back.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Even if CF Kagura becomes more viable with the changes, he's a character that won't play like Kagura.  I'm aware how dumb it sounds.

In the end Kagura is a ground focused character with almost no air conversion options from moves and his weak footsies were helped somewhat by how his current j.C functions.  On normal hit it caused a crumple that let you get up in the person's face helping bypass the footsie zone, on CH you could scoop with 3C into a combo.  The CF j.C has less recovery on landing but it potentially loses what made it so valuable for Kagura's move pool : A fast big (relatively) hitbox that can catch people trying to throw pokes out on the ground.

I wonder if this is what Relius players felt like when they heard 3C wasn't jc anymore.

[-Seo]

Even if CF Kagura becomes more viable with the changes, he's a character that won't play like Kagura.  I'm aware how dumb it sounds.

In the end Kagura is a ground focused character with almost no air conversion options from moves and his weak footsies were helped somewhat by how his current j.C functions.  On normal hit it caused a crumple that let you get up in the person's face helping bypass the footsie zone, on CH you could scoop with 3C into a combo.  The CF j.C has less recovery on landing but it potentially loses what made it so valuable for Kagura's move pool : A fast big (relatively) hitbox that can catch people trying to throw pokes out on the ground.

I wonder if this is what Relius players felt like when they heard 3C wasn't jc anymore.

 

Are you actually going to tell me you'd rather play neutral with a bad j.C, rather than actually being able to play footsies and potentially punish people for whiffing with a  faster 5C/2C?