Angry Guy of DE Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 A faster 5C/2C that also might have less range. Even if they are faster they will still be slow compared to things like Ragna's 5B that with a micro dash has range that is comparable to 5C from my eyes. Kagura's neutral at least for me also includes the usage of [4]6A/B to help cover some of Kagura's blind spots. Honestly I try to avoid having to play neutral with Kagura so I'm either full screen holding [3] to either throw a fireball or B fafnir against airdash, or I'm close enough to start pressure with his B normals. Having to play with Neutral and trying to whiff punish moves with what could be a 15-16 frame start-up 5C/2C sounds like a bad time for me. Kagura either bulldozes or gets bulldozed in fights...CF Kagura sounds like a tractor that wins at a snails pace or breaks down halfway for any number of reasons.
Tsukahara Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 It might have less range, but I doubt it was cut down that much. I admit it's entirely speculation, but I'm thinking it likely will be between the size of Koko 3c and Ragna 5c (both which are pretty good in neutral), and roughly 13-14 frames. Which lines up pretty close with their normals. Fireballs are good for approaching and covering some of his weaknesses, but there are a decent amount of characters in this game that just don't have to care about them. (Tager, Azrael, Hakumen are the most obvious for this) I hardly think he is getting crippled like you make it sound. Midscreen CH's that will be more easily gotten will lead to like 2k and pressure at the bare minimum, the same as a lot of other characters. And meterless 3k combos sounds bad for Kagura, but I doubt those are optimal/final yet, and with the min scaling on kagura's super, we likely will still do 4.5-5k with 50 meter. I think if anything these changes are helping him keep up to the rest of the cast. So he doesn't bulldoze people, but he doesn't get bulldozed by anyone with a better neutral game. Either way though, this is all speculation, we don't have the game yet, and more things can still be changed before we do get it, so no need to fret just yet.
WaltzOfTheWolf Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Hey Everyone, Finally have some CF Kag footage.....and he looks....well just see for your self XD.
WaltzOfTheWolf Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Here is my opinion as of now. Just my 2 cents.Kag looks to have "a neutral" which is definitely welcome! His 2C looks like the combo router now. so bnbs will proabably always be 5B>B>2C. or whatnot. I will say the animation of his 2C slide looks pretty hilarious. 5DA>6DA looks pretty rad midscreen, looks like you could possibly follow up with a 3C>2DB (possibly) then A orb oki?? I am not sure. As the player didn't seem to do that (or was trying to). The Corner stuff look pretty interesting however very underwhelming...2.5-2.8k in a corner for kag is totally wack....I would like to see more corner stuff since C fafner is not our go to move now. Also A orb looks pretty damn fast as it travels now. I'm not sure if it was me, however Kaguras backdash look wicked fast....If so thats just rad to!I'm really interested to see more of him in CF. Kag might not be as great, but for a neutral I suppose thats good.....i....guess......right?
FA-ST Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Via-CzVOc&t=7m08s(Corner) "stuff>6DC>B Fafnir>6B> more stuff" works
Angry Guy of DE Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 That damage is very sad, even considering that its a loke test.2C > 5DA > 6DA is pretty cool but options after that seem a bit iffy. Probably only 3C > 2DB / 6B > j.B > New move to knockdown / maybe [4]6 A/B to enable more than one hit of it in this version?A orb oki looks weaker in this version as it moves forward to the extent that it goes off-screen. B orb will probably be the go-to for corner oki.
WaltzOfTheWolf Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Damage might be low in this version, but at least people can stop bitching and moaning about Kagura now. I'm not entirely sure why they are going with the direction they are with him. However, getting a victory will be pretty satisfying, and it won't be based off a damage comeback. (I know just hear me out).I think the only reason got this damage nerf, was because players hated the 2 combo comebacks. (Which is pretty bullshit...The guy has a giant fucking weapon, logically if you swing it with great force it's going to hurt like hell.) I'm still very interested in the potential stuff he can dish out....man if only i could get my hands on CF... Low Tier Madness, here i come!
Angry Guy of DE Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 I think what feels off with CF Kagura is how most of his Drive moves don't really work together anymore, this especially with the 3C nerf. 2DC borders on corner only usage aside unless crouch confirms into 5C > 2DC > 6DA still work.Meanwhile Jin probably can still do his old corner C DP loops for 3K+
FA-ST Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Aren't you guys overreacting a bit too much?I'm pretty confident that we can get at least 3.6k off an actually optimal combo.
Tsukahara Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 In the video above linked by FA-ST it shows that 5B > 2C > 2DC works, so I don't think it's usage is corner only. I also doubt these are optimal, but 3.2-3.5k meterless in the corner isn't the worst by any means. Especially if C normals are as fast as they look. I'm a bit concerned that the A orb change now makes some midscreen combos not work, as well as it just not working at all in the corner.I have only really seen corner combo stuff, Does anyone know what our midscreen bnb's turned into?
-Seo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I really wouldn't worry about damage when players only have a limited time to try things out for a few days.In the video above linked by FA-ST it shows that 5B > 2C > 2DC works, so I don't think it's usage is corner only. I also doubt these are optimal, but 3.2-3.5k meterless in the corner isn't the worst by any means. Especially if C normals are as fast as they look. I'm a bit concerned that the A orb change now makes some midscreen combos not work, as well as it just not working at all in the corner.I have only really seen corner combo stuff, Does anyone know what our midscreen bnb's turned into?Midscreen stuff has been fairly basic, but it does seem like people have struggled to find enders with him at the moment. 5BB>2C>5DA>6DA>3C>2DB probably works, but I'd like to know if you can 6DA>[4]6A>5B/6B/3C>stuff. Also, with how fast A orb is now, 5BB>2C>2DC>5DA>6DC>[4]6A makes me thing that knocking them away with 6DC and throwing the orb to chase after them will actually give some form of oki if they emergency tech, as [4]6A can go up to 3 hits if it travels now. Edited August 31, 2015 by -Seo
FatalCounter Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 http://www.twitch.tv/baf0/v/26405595 Just gonna let it here for some people to get a taste at the new Kagura. First match of a Kagura player start around 30 min. His corner route look sick. 3C sweep higher now and seem to connect like before since 3C > 6DC works! 82C (new move) is kinda fast tbh and some hard knockdown but easy to pick up after 2DA. I believe this move is good even at controlling air space. 46A is the new GOAT, faster startup, recover faster, + on block and hit three times after travelling and deal ~1.2K. beat some rolls, I don't know maybe timing based but just better overall. 2DA seems a bit safer on block and ground bounces a bit higher. CH 5C gives a higher midscreen wall bounce and connect easily with 46A, I think you can convert with 66 6C. 2C remained unchanged from the loketest. Didn't get many jC footage. 5DB does less damage, we knew this already 2DB does more damage ~1.3K 28B has a juggle potential (known) also leave the opponent closer to the ground. kinda slower startup and a bit less damage compared to BBCP EX. 28B > 28C works. 28C seems to have a faster startup. Easy to connect it after 28B. YEAH MORE DPs I seriously believe Kagura is better in this version! We will see.
Angry Guy of DE Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 3C > 6DC working is great news. [8]2C looks like 3C can pick them up after that in the corner. Not sure if it is character specific or the Kagura player actually hit it on the later frames so he could do 3C afterwards.
-Seo Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 I got to play around 20 games with Kagura today, he's a lot of fun! [8]2C is a really strong move, but getting used to holding 7 during pressure to get the quick overhead felt weird haha. His damage midscreen is about the same, if not a little better, and his corner carry is solid too. Corner damage is a little bit low been getting anywhere between 3.2~3.8k so far, but I've just been using loketest combos so far. j.C doesn't stagger on hit anymore and feels really weird to combo from. Other than that, the character feels pretty good so far, hopefully he'll get better as time goes on.
Angry Guy of DE Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Other things noticed from the twitch stream 5B can also pick up after [8]2C. [4]1236C can also combo after [8]2C when close to the ground. [2]8B > [2]8C seems to combo in the corner. [8]2C should then be possible at the end.
DaiAndOh Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, FatalCounter said: Hey Seo, Are you in Japan? "Location: Okayama, Japan" Yup. How do C moves feel as far as startup/recovery compared to CP -SEO/anyone else?
FatalCounter Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 2 hours ago, DaiAndOh said: How do C moves feel as far as startup/recovery compared to CP -SEO/anyone else? Thanks man. I think I will drop this here and let you judge by yourself. 2C is definitely faster maybe 1 or 2 frames less on startup. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27624117
HK_Solenerro Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Jourdal posted a day 1 Kagura combo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyZ5M3CHAEo
-Seo Posted November 20, 2015 Author Posted November 20, 2015 12 hours ago, DaiAndOh said: "Location: Okayama, Japan" Yup. How do C moves feel as far as startup/recovery compared to CP -SEO/anyone else? Recovery feels about the same honestly, a misplaced 2C/5C will get you hurt. Startup is noticbly faster, specifically on 2C. If I had to take a wild stab, 2C seems around 16 frames and 5C around 17f.
WaltzOfTheWolf Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Is the charge of (8)2 C like super wicked fast? doing it off a 2a makes it out to be. Apologies If i am late to the discussion.
Dazardz Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 Managing to do [8]2C off of 6B in a combo surprises me as well. This needs to be explained.
-Seo Posted November 22, 2015 Author Posted November 22, 2015 It's not quite as hard as it seems, though it does take a little bit of practice. I definitely don't think it has a 45f charge time though, I may just be imagining it. You can buffer the dash 6B pretty early and just go straight to holding [9] and get it pretty easily. It's not all too dissimilar to doing 3C>6DC>[2]8C in CPEX.
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