Kumlekar Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 any suggestions for drive spammers? I've been jumping above them and hitting j.2C but any additional advice is welcome.
KaiAskari Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 One thing to do is watch the strings they do and 2C electric chair them for their spam. If the do the overhead jump kick thing she does (sorry, I don't know Noel's moves by command) you can 6A counter and air combo. I've noticed they like to run into D pumpkins and 234A lobelia's as well. Depending on what they are doing you can also D3C them.
Bluewindz Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Spam Rachel's top tier God Hand, God Fork, and God Chair with 5D for safety. God Hand for when they are in the air, God Fork for when they are on the ground, and God Chair for when they are on top of you. Noel can spam drive, but so can you. Rachel's schwartzis bigger than Noel's schwartz.
kro_ Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 How to beat drive spammers: Block low and watch for 2d (the overhead drive attack where she jumps in the air and blasts in an arc). Chair or 5b is a good answer for 2d and any of her single-button followups to a blocked 2d. Learn to combo off chair and 5b counterhit. How to beat Noel: 6a beats out all of her aerials since they have relatively short range. Noel also has a tough time killing frogs and needs to be in your face to do damage, so staying near the frog is a good idea. Once again, use your pumpkin in combination with the frog to force her to block it and go for free mixups. You can literally just sit there and fish for 6a anti-airs if you keep a frog and pumpkin near you. Noel also lacks a good reversal so rushing her down is fairly easy. It shouldn't be hard to regen wind in this matchup. Watch out for Noel's air super and 3c slide. These beat your 6a and 6b respectively. I believe her 5d is also invulnerable to the fork poke. Her slide can also go under a pumpkin winded horizontally. A smart Noel will attempt to throw you to make your pumpkin and frog disappear even if you tech. After a tech, she has the advantage. It's fairly difficult to get out of pressure once you get in it, so do your best to keep her out. And god help you if you burst or don't have barrier. Noel is one of the best characters in the game at guard crushing the opponent.
Vayden Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Played around 30 matches vs a friend's Noel and more than once I've seen Rachel's 2A go through him so I'm pretty certain her 5D has body immunity in addition to head. Once he gets any overhead or slide attack in it basically leads to a 3.6-4k damage combo... without distortion. I dont even know which other character can do that. Her air distortion comes out almost instantly as well since she doesnt have a chant for it, making it incredibly easy to catch opponents off guard with it unless their turtling. With Rachel's extremely limited options (losing in both the speed and range department) I really see no other way aside from spamming lobelias or pumpkin and waiting for wind to charge up Anyone has any decent followups from an anti-air 6A? Cant chain into 5B so I was wondering what other combos there are for Rachel after the hit.
Alzarath Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 If Noel likes to attempt 3c in neutral situations, 2a/2b/5b can beat it. Try not to do 236a in strings too often, 5d will own you if she sees it.
Vayden Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 I really only use 236a as keep away (when he tries to dash in) or at the end of a blocked string (for that extra push to make it harder to counter). Rachel’s air game is simply too weak for her to go head to head in the air so I have to resort to lobelias or 6a for anti-air when I see him air dash in. Problem is I don’t have anything decent to connect with after 6a hits. Offensively my options are also pretty limited with Noel having multiple AA counters to Rachel’s j.2dc and most of her drive CH attacks stunning for as long as Rachel’s 6b CH. In a head on ground collision the best I can hope for is a tie, the worst is him outranging me and getting a CH, leading to another slow and painful 4k combo. Overall, it seems pretty impossible to play an offensive Rachel vs Noel. The only times I can beat him is by staying defensive (helps to prevent surprise air distortions as well) which I greatly dislike.
Alex073088 Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Played around 30 matches vs a friend's Noel and more than once I've seen Rachel's 2A go through him so I'm pretty certain her 5D has body immunity in addition to head. Once he gets any overhead or slide attack in it basically leads to a 3.6-4k damage combo... without distortion. I dont even know which other character can do that. Her air distortion comes out almost instantly as well since she doesnt have a chant for it, making it incredibly easy to catch opponents off guard with it unless their turtling. With Rachel's extremely limited options (losing in both the speed and range department) I really see no other way aside from spamming lobelias or pumpkin and waiting for wind to charge up Anyone has any decent followups from an anti-air 6A? Cant chain into 5B so I was wondering what other combos there are for Rachel after the hit. a combo that follows that will always connect once u hit an aerial opponent with 6a that i do is of course 6a>d.j(directional jump)>j.a>j.a>j.a>j.c>d.j(directional jump)+j.c>qcf+a(tiny lobilia) hits every time just make sure u jump and square =D
sogos Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 a combo that follows that will always connect once u hit an aerial opponent with 6a that i do is of course 6a>d.j(directional jump)>j.a>j.a>j.a>j.c>d.j(directional jump)+j.c>qcf+a(tiny lobilia) hits every time just make sure u jump and square =D wow you made up a new notation in d.j, a new mechanic in directional jump and a shitty combo in one whole post. BEST POST '09 to Vayden: If you hit with non-CH 6a AA and they can tech before 5b hits, theres not much you can do. If theres a pole nearby you can 22a into SJ blahblahaircombo or super if you have some meter to waste. Best option is probably to just get a free pumpkin + frog summon off. If you hit CH 6a, you can dash 6a 5b blahblahaircombo
Binh Mighty Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 If Noel likes to attempt 3c in neutral situations, 2a/2b/5b can beat it. Try not to do 236a in strings too often, 5d will own you if she sees it. This helps a lot. Seeing that 3C has a slower start up frame then Rachel's normals. Also if you block one of her drive attacks, do electric chair in between it. But don't do this too often or she can mix up and make you whiff. So just try blocking better (although its a bit harder online wise) Try to zone her really well with frog and pumpkin and 236, if you can put her into a block stun you are advantage. If you get her into a combo, always try to drag her to the corner. Some Noels like to come down with j.D after air tech that beats anti-air usually, whenever they land they like to do Spring Raid (Flash kick looking move), so just block it and it should be a free combo if they don't have 50 percent meter.
Vayden Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Chair only works the first few times; after that they learn to poke from outside the chair's range and move in when youre recovering. Most of my friends like to air dash a lot, relying only on lobelias and 6a for damage doesnt get you very far though. Rachel's combos are incredibly limited, and relying on summons vs a decent player who stays in the air most of the time simply doesnt work, and usually means free hits for them in a neutral situation. My main problem with my friend's Noel is he can start his insane damage combo from virtually any opening attack, while Im limited to miserable 1.6k-2.4k damage combos since frog doesnt work on Noel unless shes cornered :/ Not sure if youre referring to the move where she kicks her foot diagonally upwards, but that has hella range and I even lose to it coming in with 5a/5b, and definitely eat it if Im doing j.2dc.
kro_ Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 You can do combos that don't use the frog or use 6cdc to push her into the corner. Landing a hit with 6a or lobelia should give you the opportunity to summon a pumpkin and initiate rushdown. Noel can't anti-air a pumpkin with you following behind it. And if you actually are landing 6a's a lot, some of those should be counter hits. You can catch her with 5b and go into an air combo after 6a counterhit.
Alzarath Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 You actually can do frog combo on Noel, but you need an extra wind stock: 5BD 5CDC 214A 5B 236A etc.. Works on Jin/Ragna also btw (you can do 3C instead of 5B on them)
Vayden Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 You can do combos that don't use the frog or use 6cdc to push her into the corner. Landing a hit with 6a or lobelia should give you the opportunity to summon a pumpkin and initiate rushdown. Noel can't anti-air a pumpkin with you following behind it. And if you actually are landing 6a's a lot, some of those should be counter hits. You can catch her with 5b and go into an air combo after 6a counterhit. I find *starter* -> 6cdc unreliable for cornering human opponents in general. Barrier usually means that 2nd c is gonna whiff and leave you open. Maybe because I rely too much on a attacks for starters? Dunno. Kinda skeptical about the heavy reliance on pumpkin. Like I said, opponents who mostly stay in the air are practically immune to it since Rachel doesnt have very much to followup with after an air hit, and even a ground pumpkin whiffs against a sliding opponent. Using them alot also tends to burn the wind counter pretty fast, leaving you helpless earlier than you would like. I land 6a fairly often and get the occasional air combo in. Does crap damage compared to his combo though >_> Anyhoo, thx for the tips folks. Will try next time I play him
Coinage Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Sometimes my 6A is beaten by her 6A and sometimes not. I had a friend teach me a very basic advice that proved to be quite good. Block low until you see use 6B, 2D, or any air moves. This helped me win more matches. It seems some of her overhead moves are quite a bit easy to see. I see why you all say 3C is good, but if they clash with your 3C, you can easily get countered because I got countered many times.
DaRabidDuckie Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Overall, it seems pretty impossible to play an offensive Rachel vs Noel. I'm a little late on this, and I apologize for commenting on an earlier post, but it IS possible to beat a rushdown Noel with offensive tactics. I'm a Noel main, and I fought a Rachel who managed to completely shut down my offense by rushing ME down. Her application of pressure was danged impressive. She used a mix of j2C, 6C, and 2C combined with wind, and I was cornered and taking damage before I knew it. The only way I knew to get out was to tech and air 5D, but she countered it with the chair and used wind to push me back down into the corner. The only way I was able to win was by canceling out of a burst and then performing my own rushdown. I could tell he wasn't used to people breaking out of it. I was really impressed, and sent them a friend request. I'm thinking about subbing Rachel now and developing a RTSD strat with her using his ideas. I wish I could post the match, but I'll try to post my findings once I've studied it more.
Vayden Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Im sorry but that just means you’re not playing Noel right. Many of Noel’s attacks have longer range and/or higher priority than Rachel’s. Add that to the fact her 5d has projectile, head AND body immunity, plus an insane 3.6k+ distortion-less combo that can be started from ANY opening attack, and you realize all it takes for Rachel to get beaten is for Noel to get an attack in 3 times. Oh, and lets not also forget that Rachel needs to expend more wind stocks for her more damaging frog combos to work on Noel, further hampering her efforts. Strictly speaking, with Rachel’s extremely weak air game, you should rarely, if ever, find yourself getting pressured by her.
Maester Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Need help with something, Against Noel... 5B > 5B > D5C > 5C > 214B > D > dash > 5B > 5C > 5C This combo is also shown in MYS combo vid, as soon as I get to the pumpkin part D then dash forward Noel becomes airborne but in his video she remains on the ground?? Help?
Zaido Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 you hit her with the pumpkin before she is "on the ground" state meaning, you launched the pumpkin too late, try to hit it earlier.
bapestarr Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 what do you guys do to get in on noel? everytime i want to get in she mangaes to get me since her attacks have a bit longer range? also what do you do to get out of a rushdown
DC Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 what do you guys do to get in on noel? everytime i want to get in she mangaes to get me since her attacks have a bit longer range? also what do you do to get out of a rushdown Pumpkin to get in. This is a generic answer but it works lol. To get out of a rushdown? Block low and watch for her (2?) overheads. One of them is part of Chain Revolver. They're both pretty easy to react to.
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