PhantomX Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 So you're saying to use the Counter Assault on her D swords? o_O That's pretty unorthodox... I like it, haha.
Senkei Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 Yep and trust me it really works, I wanted to find some way to escape her pressure and attacks and I came up with that.
lunaris Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 in my thread on 2b i noted that you can use 2b to simply dodge her 4d and j.2d(from a jc) swords. i don't see any need to counter assault when the only swords 2b can't dodge easily(you just mash it if she does the blockstring as fast as possible; if she doesn't, you can jump out anyways) are the 5d swords(which can be dodged but are difficult). i guess you could argue that being able to jump immediately after the second sword in a Xdd string gives you more time, but either way a sword is completely whiffing. i think the recovery time on counter assault and 2b is fairly similar. more importantly, a good nu is capable of slightly delaying sword attacks in DD strings and will do so frequently just because she can, and i think that might screw over the counter assault strategy. i suppose if they delayed 4D VERY slightly they could hit you out of 2b after DD, but every time i've tried it 2b has worked simply by mashing. and as to heat, i find it pretty useful to have 100% heat when my enemy is hovering around 30% HP. if they ever get close and try to attack, counter assault>super>curse usually makes the match pretty unwinnable(since they're cursed and have no more HP). at the very least, even if they're aware of that strategy they become much more predictable/restricted.
tolore Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 if they are REALLY looking for it they can throw break it, that's pretty hard though(had it happen a few times).
CopperDabbit Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 if they are REALLY looking for it they can throw break it, that's pretty hard though(had it happen a few times). That can only happen if you CA a projectile attack, otherwise it counts as throwing them out of the move (giant red x)
tolore Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 it can also happen if they do low aerials and land in the middle of the active frames, just random stuff to watch out for.
PhantomX Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Why would you try to CA their aerials when you know it's a grounded grab? :\
tolore Posted September 19, 2009 Posted September 19, 2009 because they are obviously safe jumped, the grab works, but it's throw techable, it still works most of the time, but i've had someone watching for it.
Paragn Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 One strategy that has been somewhat effective for me is to constantly jump dash cancel ->barrier guard until nu starts throwing out 6D or j.2D. At this point I use 2c which can set up RC->6c loop. Also when you score a counter hit with 2c at the very tail end at the move's animation (which is usually the range it hits at when fighting nu) you can 5B->j5A->jC...etc into curse loop without using any meter. Also most Nus Will almost always use back dash to escape after being knocked down or when you get too close for comfort. I usually try to punish this by once again using 2C, or j3D and she usually backs right into my tentacle. Sometimes I get punished for it, but hey, you're not going to win this matchup without taking a few risks.
Senkei Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Holy shit im not talking about using the counter assault to grab her. Read the damn post! I'm talking about using it's invincibility to dodge D strings. @ Lunaris:They can delay the swords all they want, you still get the free jump out into pressure. Heat is useful yes in that very specific situation, but not against NU. Why would she even want to get close to you in order to get Counter Assualted? So that point you made is quite silly to the subject at hand. but... I havn't tried to use 2b at all but then again I never play this game that much anyway.
thegame4ever Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 I never play this game that much anyway. Then you are in no position to offer matchup advice etc. and you have never even tried 2B. If sword is delayed, doesn't that mean you can backdash out of there for free? I'd much rather save my 50 meter for grab>super, or if they burst to rapid cancel block and continue my pressure. lunaris is right, 2B works wonders, counter assaulting swords to get out of pressure is poor when it's her goddamn D. If she was meleeing up my face that's when I want to use 50 and counter assault>super.
Matt Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Back dashing is a bad idea. The amount of recovery there is on a back dash is so high that it gives the Nu players free hits. I say do what the pros do jump, barrier block, airdash cancel, barrier block until you're close enough to attack. If the Nu player is running away too much take your chances with jD and if it works use the curse to lock her down so that you can safely move in without her escaping.
InspectorOda Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 And what happens when they don't 4DD and go into Command Dash, 214D©, Gravity Well, or Aerial Pressure? 2B doesn't work on everything. It might be better to use CA to try and escape against good v-13's, or at least ones that bother hit confirming 5DD.
kousaka Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 One strategy that has been somewhat effective for me is to constantly jump dash cancel ->barrier guard until nu starts throwing out 6D or j.2D. At this point I use 2c which can set up RC->6c loop. Also when you score a counter hit with 2c at the very tail end at the move's animation (which is usually the range it hits at when fighting nu) you can 5B->j5A->jC...etc into curse loop without using any meter. Also most Nus Will almost always use back dash to escape after being knocked down or when you get too close for comfort. I usually try to punish this by once again using 2C, or j3D and she usually backs right into my tentacle. Sometimes I get punished for it, but hey, you're not going to win this matchup without taking a few risks. Back dashing is a bad idea. The amount of recovery there is on a back dash is so high that it gives the Nu players free hits. I say do what the pros do jump, barrier block, airdash cancel, barrier block until you're close enough to attack. If the Nu player is running away too much take your chances with jD and if it works use the curse to lock her down so that you can safely move in without her escaping. I agree with these guys. Take your chances with psychic j6D/j3D on nu backdash. Psychic punish 2C any anti air swords that you train them to throw by airdash cancel/barrier blocking constantly. Desperation trade jD with a sword hit to curse them so it's easier to approach. Once your in curse/pressure relentlessly. High risk mind games or mad reaction time gambles FTW.
Skye Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 What if they air dash alot? Cloud? I say get the cloud out after teleporting behind her and try your best to keep it up, the homing cloud will prevent her from staying in one place, great for pressure.
PhantomX Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 If they airdash you should be intercepting with 6A/B/C into curse, or even 5Cing if they're obvious about it.
thegame4ever Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 And what happens when they don't 4DD and go into Command Dash, 214D©, Gravity Well, or Aerial Pressure? 2B doesn't work on everything. It might be better to use CA to try and escape against good v-13's, or at least ones that bother hit confirming 5DD. They command dash dash forward. You an option since you can react to everything. You can see 4DD then mash 2B, you can see her command dash and dash forward etc. You're goin to need that 50 meter, and CA'ing a 5DD is telling the Nu "I don't want to react to your moves, I just want an easy way out." The hard way out is the best, and if you want to adapt to beat Nu you'll have to learn to react. You can 2B at any time, but you can't CA at any time.
Senkei Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Then you are in no position to offer matchup advice etc. and you have never even tried 2B. If sword is delayed, doesn't that mean you can backdash out of there for free? I'd much rather save my 50 meter for grab>super, or if they burst to rapid cancel block and continue my pressure. lunaris is right, 2B works wonders, counter assaulting swords to get out of pressure is poor when it's her goddamn D. If she was meleeing up my face that's when I want to use 50 and counter assault>super. LOL! I can offer whatever advice I want. You talking about back-dashing out of her D strings makes you look a little silly when you badger me about my horrible advice. Since it looks like that's the only part of my post you seemed to read I will reiterate. Saving the 50% Heat and grabbing Nu into a super may seem great but I'd much rather spend my time up close on her mixing it up into a nice 6c loop then risking a broken grab into her zoning me out again. (it's damn easy to break throws in this game btw) It amazes me how little I play this game yet the comments I see posted by regulars makes them sound like they just learned how to walk. I don't want to diss the whole 2b thing (since i haven't seen it on any vids at all) If there is any recording of this 2b strategy being of use can someone show me? Im sure it's relevance would be appreciated.
thegame4ever Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 IB 5DD then before 4DD comes out you can backdash, but it's much much preferable to 2B since you don't even need to IB. Go to training, set record nu to 5DD>4DD, and mash 2B when 4D is out. It's a guarantee it won't hit you.
InspectorOda Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I didn't say that CA to escape pressure is a good idea either, just that it would probably work better than a 2B against a good v-13. If they go into jump pressure via j2DD or j214D©, 2B is not gonna work very well since confirming whichever one is used will be nigh impossible, and if you 2B to try and dodge a j2DD you think is coming and they throw out a j214D, you're screwed and will eat a big fat combo. At least CA gives you Invincibility frames. And only an idiot would use 4DD after 5DD block confirm on Arakune, or most characters in general, outside of mind games ala TK j214D. Seriously though, against a good v-13 player it is usually better to just man it up and block rather than taking the easy way out, since it could screw you over quite badly. Go ahead and spam 2B on scrubby v-13's though, it works wonders every single time.
Senkei Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Thank you for that. I never said it's something to base your whole game plan off of. I was just suggesting it as a little unexpected trick to throw them off a little. Jesus christ the gun was jumped very fast, blocking and finding holes is the best way to get to her obviously but this forces a gap rather than waiting for it.
thegame4ever Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Thank you for that. I never said it's something to base your whole game plan off of. I was just suggesting it as a little unexpected trick to throw them off a little. Jesus christ the gun was jumped very fast, blocking and finding holes is the best way to get to her obviously but this forces a gap rather than waiting for it. It forces a gap true, but then you jump, you have to block swords, move forward, have to block swords. If it forced a gap and allowed me to summon a cloud without being hit, that's 50 meter WELL SPENT. If it's 50 just to be on NEUTRAL grounds, in which she can easily zone me again, it's better to save that 50 and just block and react accordingly. Good on you for coming up with alternatives to escape pressure, and bad on me for jumping the gun, we need as much input as possible without only criticizing others, we don't want dustloop to be SRK.
Senkei Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Fair enough! But the way I was using the CA is so you just don't jump and block. It is used for you to attack right after since a sword is whiffed giving time to attack, not throw out a cloud.
thegame4ever Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Then this is perfect if you're in range for 3C, CA>3C>6C loop. Alternatively you can IB 2nd hit of 5DD and 3C. Haven't tried 2B the 4D and 3Cing yet.
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