AC Combos: Theory and Practice

[Caer-caveral]

The extended patterns can be found in the first post of this thread. And it's actually not your imagination. Testament is harder to IAD with. If I recall correctly he has a longer amount of time from after a jump intil he can dash than any other character. This means that the problem of pressing too fast is very common with him, and you can't do it very low.

[Badguy]

The extended patterns can be found in the first post of this thread.

And it's actually not your imagination. Testament is harder to IAD with. If I recall correctly he has a longer amount of time from after a jump intil he can dash than any other character. This means that the problem of pressing too fast is very common with him, and you can't do it very low.

finally the truth has been sed i knew it, i think my problem is pressin to fast and here i am thinkin i press too slow im gunna go try this shit again and get it down pat

[Caer-caveral]

Okay, here we go again. Thanks to Rise and his excellent combovid, I've spent more time playing with curse-combos. I have during this time found several very interesting things. First off comes the point of doing HS > net > tk BL instead of just HS > BL at the end of the standard side-switching-combo. I've always done the latter in order to avoid damage scaling from the net as well as getting them down lower for easier knockdown. So wrong. According to the frame data, the second hit of BL has the same untechable time for both ground and air versions. However in reality, a tk BL gives knockdown much easier. This makes knocking down Dizzy easy, and even makes it possible to get a knockdown on lights. Secondly, it just makes the combo easier. No more accidental 236P for landing on the wrong side, or OTG HS > BL into punishment for hitting too late. Another thing that is as of yet unconfirmed, but it seems like moving in any direction, even back towards the corner will often ruin the side-switch, putting you back on the wrong side. Don't know why. More than that, the video shows that you can actually get the side switch from more situation than I initially thought. As long as you can still hit with jS > jHS, it's possible so be sure to look for that. It's actually possible without it but much harder. Finally, I now have what I'm pretty sure is the optimal warrant-combo in the corner. Warrant > HS EXE FRC > jHS > jD > BL 1-hit > HS > Net > dash > jS > jHS > BL 1-ht > HS > Net > tk BL > 236 P It does huge damage and gives you an optimal knockdown for only 25% tension. Just make sure you hit the jS as late as possible. For lights, change 236P into tk BL > tk BL. I'll update the first post with this as well.

[Zenpou Tenshin]

Something I found out yesterday while fighting Bridget: Gatling to Zeinest, 5s, j.k, j.s, j.hs, BL, Land, TK BL, BL, TK BL ~ I got about 5 BL's on him. The same concept works with hitomi as well.

[The Muffin Man]

thanks for the help guys. another question, im assuming the BL Loop works on lights (may specifically), but ideally should i be juggling them lower to the ground or higher?? i always seem to push them really far away or really high up. ive been testing this using the simple throw>6k>BL setup thanks once again

[Diveman]

but, Caer, how do u exactly do the side-switching? because I tried to do it today and failed miserably =/m is there any setup or something?

[Caer-caveral]

@The Muffin Man: I haven't researched it all that much, but what worked best for me is to do throw > 6K > BL > tk BL and then wait a little in order to let them get further dow[finput][/finput]way. After that it's pretty much just as fast as you can. I experienced difficulties with keeping the loop going without that pause, but best thing to do it sprobably to try out different stuff like this and find what you feel is easiest for you. Might differ from character to character as well. @Diveman: Well, the main factor seem to lie in getting the opponent as high up as possible in relation to yourself before the BL. Having momentum may help, but I don't have any hard evidence for that yet. Best source for reference would be The "Electric communication" combovid, but basically you just trap them in a net close to the corner, then run in and do something like jS > jHS > BL or jP > jK > jS > BL. Note that there are about 6 frames after the opponent flies out of the net before they can tech. Try to catch them during these frames, as it helps with getting them up higher. In other news, this way of doing side-switches rocks so much! I've tried it out in matches now and it works amazingly well. It suddenly becomes one of your best options for several occasions, including: * Opponent is hit by a tree relatively close to the corner: S > jK > jS > jHS > BL > HS > Net > ... * random air-hit to BL 1-hit * Warrant in the corner, as previously noted * Any ground combo starting in or very close to the corner In all the cases listed above, you get a perfect knockdown for at most 25% tension, often none. It also fills the gap created by my previous side-switching combos (the superjump ones) as they are much harder when you are actually in the corner. Now, the best usage is something like this: Combo is started between your starting position and the opponents starting position: 6P > S > 2D > HS EXE FRC > dash in deep K > S > sj > jP > jK > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > (land in the corner) > HS > Net > tk BL > 236P Combo starts between opponents starting position and about the length of 2D from the corner: 6P > S > 2D > HS EXE FRC > dash S > sj > jP > jK > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > (land in the corner) > HS > Net > tk BL > 236P Combo starts closer to the corner: 6P > S > 2D > HS EXE FRC > jHS > jD > BL 1-hit > HS > Net > dash > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > (land in the corner) > HS > Net > tk BL > 236P EDIT: This does not work very well on all characters though. I haven't had a chance to test it out, but for example on Venom it's almost impossible to get this shit to work with any consistency. Dizzy and Sol are easy though, if you need a good choice for practice dummy =)

[TNPR]

i have this combo vid its crap but you can see some great combos the last one is a surprise so sorry about projectile char such as ky,sol,order sol,etc..these combos are without tension btw

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7234019302264850684

i apologize for my crappy quality

[Dream Maker]

These combos aren't tensionless because gravedigger costs 25% tension to use now. And you should forget the old gravedigger loops this isn't worth the tension in AC, you have better options now for just 25% of your tension bar.

[Badguy]

i have this combo vid its crap but you can see some great combos the last one is a surprise so sorry about projectile char such as ky,sol,order sol,etc..these combos are without tension btw

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7234019302264850684

i apologize for my crappy quality

wow those combos were forest blazing! lol

well anyways man alot of those combos were techable and not worth it and yes if you didnt notice force break moves cost 25% to do

be sure to always test ur combos with ur opponent recovery set to back or front

(some moves cant be tech'd neutral so its not realiable)

[Diveman]

Hello, today practicing a bit I thought "How I miss the Phantom soul after a throw shit", then I remembered the Electric communication CV, and i said: "maybe...ok lets test this shit". And I can confirm this, you CAN phantom soul the opp after a throw near the corner like this: Corner Throw (you have to throw them to the corner), H Exe Beast, 6K, Net, dash jump, j.k, j.s, j.h, BL (1-hit), land (side-switch) 5H, net, tk BL, p phantom soul. I could only test this on sol, but it works perfectly. On characters like Baiken, after the first net, its easier if you do: dash jump, j.s, j.p, j.s, BL (1-hit) the timing is kinda hard, but once you get it its very useful to get a curse. on heavy ones like potem, i couldnt get this, so if someone could try to land this combo on pot and make it work it would be appreciated. I`ll keep testing on other characters.

[Caer-caveral]

It's been known for quite a while. I think it was Goran who came up with it, only a few weeks after the release. The most common version of it is: Corner throw > HS > net > dash jK > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > (land behind opponent) > HS > net > tk BL > 236P It does the same damage as yours, but I find it a bit easier. It works on all mediums I've tried it on, which is most of them.And it does work on potemkin and robo-ky as well. You just have to either time the first HS early or delay your jS a bit. What I'm wondering is how you managed to get a knockdown on a light with this. I've tried it several times and I can't get it, they always tech about halfway down. In fact, I don't have any corner throw combo on lights that's even decent, so I always just let them lie =/ BTW, updated first post with dust-combos and combos starting with Gravedigger. Not terribly exciting, but good to know.

[Badguy]

for lights and mid-weights i use this corner throw combo... corner throw > HS > net > dash > j.HS > j.D > BL 1-hit > (land behind opponent) > HS > net > tk BL > 236P for Potemkin i use corner throw > S > net > dash > j.HS > j.D > BL 1-hit > (land behind opponent) > HS > net > tk BL > 236P and for Robo-Ky i use the standard Corner throw > HS > net > dash jK > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > (land behind opponent) > HS > net > tk BL > 236P

[Caer-caveral]

Still, gotta ask, do you get knockdown on lights from that? Or am I the only one this isn't working for?

[Badguy]

Still, gotta ask, do you get knockdown on lights from that? Or am I the only one this isn't working for?

yup been using it all the time, i get a knockdown and a p-skull, did you actually try it my way? instead of

j.K > j.S > j.HS > BL

i use j.HS > j.D

[Caer-caveral]

Okay, I got it. But your way didn't work for me either. You sure they can't tech that for you? Anyway, I got it by catching them low with the first HS, and do HS > net > dash jS > BL 1-hit > HS > net > tk BL Doable, but the timing is iffy as hell.

[Tage*Proto]

Caer, can you maybe explain the best way to get the Phantom Soul off of a throw? I can do the throw, BL, tk BL, dash, 5k 5hs(insert variant here), BL, TK BL, but my dashing skull won't hit very consistently. Thanks.

[Badguy]

Caer, can you maybe explain the best way to get the Phantom Soul off of a throw? I can do the throw, BL, tk BL, dash, 5k 5hs(insert variant here), BL, TK BL, but my dashing skull won't hit very consistently. Thanks.

usually to get that phantom soul input it like this 236,6+P but still its quite difficult, i find the easy character to do throw into phantom soul is anji

[Caer-caveral]

Okay, I just went ahead and took my last combo off the record (and off this thread) because this is just plain better. Finally playing stick has paid off in some way. I'm going to assume this needs to be said because since no one has mentioned it, people either didn't know it or you're all spiteful bastards for not telling me about it I was practicing my superjump combo on stick today (god I hate superjumps to the right), and since I can't do things on automatic like I could on a pad I actually had to think about how I was doing it. It turns out that what made the combo work was that if you delay the jumpcancel after the close 5S, you will retain much more momentum from your dash than if done immediately. I have no idea why it's like this. Anyway, this means that if you do the following: 6P or 2K > S > 2D > HS EXE FRC > dash S > delay > jK > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > sideswitch > ... you can get a sideswitch without the superjump. It works better the longer you delay the jump cancel, so you might want to do jP instead of jK, since it's faster and thus easier to connect with. Now, the beauty of this is that first of all it's way easier, secondly it works even if you're deep in the corner (so did the other one actually, but once again, way easier) and best of all, it works on absolutely everyone. You just need to remove the jHS on light characters and add another jP for Potemkin. Also important for making it work is to do the HS after the sideswitch as late as possible. Don't know why it's like that either. Superjump combos are not obsolete, since they work from a farther distance than this one. Also for the characters it works on, I suggest still doing this as a corner combo: 6P > S > 2D > HS EXE FRC > jHS > jD > BL 1-hit > HS > Net > dash > jS > jHS > BL 1-hit > sideswitch > ... since it does a noticeable amount more damage. Characters I've found this to work well on so far is Dizzy, Ky, Slayer and Faust. ------- Regarding curse loop, yes you need to do the input like Badguy said, and yes it is by no means easy. It's all about perfect spacing on both the dash before 5K > HS and the dash before the skull. If you dash too short the first time, you won't be able to reach with the skull, and if you dash too deep you won't hit with the next tk BL. For the last dash, you just need to know you opponents hitbox well and dash the absolute minimum. I recommend Sol as a training dummy, since he is moderately easy compared to most, but still a challenge (unlike Anji on whom it's quite easy). Also, I often find it a bit easier if you switch 5K to 6K.

[Tage*Proto]

Thanks Caer for the explanation, and also, welcome to arcade stick .

[aiban]

i dont know where to put this thing.. can te switch from a slash exe beast pressure to hs exe pressure XD.. eg. s, hs, hs exe(frc), dash in > [near corner(highlow mix to string)], hs exe, 6k, hs exe(frc) blablabla?? etc??

[geist]

its not possible to loop ky its only possible to get that one hit badland, personally i jus take the time to go for zeinest oki on ky unless im near a corner and hit into the corner

Finally got the game and was toying around with some of the combos and found out you CAN do a TENSIONLESS, CORNERLESS throw combo on Ky

it really only involves doing a very small dash before the 6K...it pretty much goes like this

throw, 66K BL, BL, BL

I have some troubles timing the TK badlands (usually when I get the TK, he's too far down), but fortunately 3 badlands will connect (maybe 4) even without the TK. UNFORTUNATELY since I'm not doing the TK version, there's not enough time to dash after the second BL to get a few hits in, so I haven't really been able to test out any sort of curse loop

the timing on the kick (and the dash) is a bitch to get. You basically have to start the first forward the moment you recover from the throw animation....any earlier and you just come out with 6K, any later and the 6K OTG's. For the 6K itself, you pretty much do it at the same time as the second forward. If you do it right you'll hear the dash sound, but not see any movement, and the 6k will hit very low (maybe another reason I can't get the TK :p). Very rarely you'll hear the dash and think everything's ok, but you'll still only get a one hit

course, with the difficulty of this, you could debate whether or not it's practical, but with only a short amount of practice I've been able to land it somewhat consistantly.

[eddy47]

I have read a few post here. But i dun understand what EXE MOP GD is. Can someone tell me what are these moves and how to use it? Thank you

[ShinDVDz]

</snip>

With the difficulty of that combo, wouldn't it be better to just skip the combo altogether and just run up and set up a net for the okizeme game?

[Caer-caveral]

EXE Beast = 41236S or HS

GD: Gravedigger = 214 D

MoP: Master of Puppets = 236236HS

I suggest reading up on the frame data for more info on each of them. http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/testament.html