[CT] Taokaka vs. Nu

[DJGoblin]

I was playing a bunch of rounds against a pretty good nu online. If your far away and can predit what shes going to do with the swords you can drive and hit B before it hits you to teleport through the swords and get in on her. This really wont work on the C moves with nu but I was using 4D~B/5D~B and even J.4D~B. as approaches. Its tough to get off but if your successful you can really make nu pay. On the other hand you will eat a nasty combo if you miss it so another high risk/possble high reward depending on how close you get in when you hit B. Nu matchup's are mostly jokes anyway. You really don't have a shot no matter who you are

[MumMum]

This really isn't that bad of a match up for Tao. Just a matter knowing what/how to block and getting in.

[XDest]

The problem with the matchup is that Taokaka has to risk a lot more regardless to get damage, while Nu can punish somebody for moving a certain way. But if you can guess right in risky scenarios for big damage, or approach correctly without risking much (going between 3, 1 and D~B can be safer routes), it can get closer to an even matchup.

[Ronove]

d~b mixups (whether it's 5d~b or, 2d~b, or others) are extremely useful against her if she's trying to anticipate you. Most of the moves they use take a long recovery, if they whiff they're wide open for punishment (5b as usual, or if they're whiffed a long recovery move even 6c). But yeah, it's high-risk/high-reward, chances are that a smart Nu player might be baiting our drive moves and punish them.

[Hsien_Jo]

Im not sure if this was already covered but, I noticed: > Tao's 5D Fly's over Nu's 5D, and that low hitting blade move. > Nu's 4D the one that goes overhead from the back can be easily crawled under. If it's during the generic Nu D, D, 4D, D, low blade move block string, u can crawl under or backdash the 4D overhead easily without a previous instant block. > Nu's 5C can be crawled under, but unless ur close enough to 2B or 3C i wouldn't advise it since she can cancel into 6C on whiff and hit r during crawl. > So far as I've seen 214214C "Ima Beat the Crap Out of U" Super, flys through Nu's 5C spam without harm to u.

[Ronove]

A couple of things after having faced a friend of mine who plays a solid Nu: - Although it has been repeated in this thread, I'll stress it as well. Watch out for her 6C, 2C, 3C crap. Chances are Nu will throw you a couple of D swords to make you evade them while you approach her and pull a 5C or a 2C (which comes out stupidly fast for a C move) right as you land. Even if you block, you'll be caught in some crappy blockstun which will lead to Nu's mixup game which is something you absolutely want to avoid. So either be VERY QUICK at closing distance, or bait her C shit and punish on whiff before they can escape. - Keep your blockstrings simple. 2A (max 2 times), 5b and 2b. 6B against her is VERY RISKY. I know it because I did try to throw it out but ended up eating a counterhit C. If you really want to use it don't do it often and don't use it predictably. 5C as blockstring ender is very risky if they already blocked/IBed your stuff since they're probably be mashing her 2C/3C which come out in 9 frames. Kara-throw them. - j.C is your best tool from the air and hopefully score a CH. - Don't drive if you know she's gonna block it or if you know the drive won't connect. She'll punish you HARD for it. However, 214D is really good in general when you want to quickly approach her (besides the IAD) from the distance. - Hitconfirm. Yeah, it's supposed to be the golden rule in any matchup, but really I can't stop stressing this. Hitconfirm your stuff. This is not a matchup where you can allow yourself to risk too much because Nu is godlike at punishing and good Nus will be baiting stuff as much as they can since they can't really pressure. Only throw your C crap if after hitconfirm or if you are 100% sure they're going to connect (after Nu whiffed one of her long recovery moves). - Watch out for Nu's TK 2147D. They love that move as round opener, and they may also throw it out if they see you approaching from the ground with a dash. - Every time they use Act Pulsar to get behind you, most of times this will lead into a throw attempt. - Don't get too defensive. Only block/IB when you really don't have better options. And that's it as far as my current personal experience goes. I haven't played a lot of them since as strange is at may sound they seem to be a rare breed, compared to the rest of top-tier cast (I definetely played more Rachel/Arakune/Jin than Nu). If you have a good Nu in your friend list don't hesistate to practice with them as much as you can.

[Arcade Fire87]

Hey there, I just played like 20 games with Xdest online for Xbox 360 and was hoping to maybe learn something from the forums here. The person above wrote to make sure Nu doesn't block drive. I was wondering, what exactly can Nu do to punish Tao if she blockes her drive, I haven't seen the option. 2C is definitely thrown out a lot but that doesn't punish too many Tao's from a blocked drive. A lot of Tao's aren't a problem online, but I kinda wanna learn what ever options are left against the few really good one's.

[XDest]

B cancel is unsafe on block, slightly (like -1 or -2 or something) disadvantageous on hit, combos on CH. You can pretty much do anything you want unless it CH's you. C cancel is -3 on block, probably advantageous on hit. A non-canceled drive, and a forward canceled drive is generally distance-safe for the most part . But can't really be followed up for pressure purposes. They're -7 and -9 respectively. Not exactly safe, but most characters don't have a fast enough move with enough range to punish them. Then again 2C... heh. RC resets to 0 on block I'm pretty sure, and of course combos on hit and CH.

[Ronove]

-1 or -2 on hit for the B cancel is safe, considering there is no move that is that fast. @Arcade Fire Normally a good Tao will never use a drive move unless they're sure to hit or after hitconfirming first. They may use it as cross-up manuver jump (j.2D~B) or use the ~C cancel as a feint to bait something from the opponent, but it's just too risky to blindly drive on a Nu and getting blocked since the recovery from a blocked drive is pretty long and you have all the time to decide what you want to do to punish Tao (2C, or just dash forward->mixup, or dash backward). At most if a drive move was blocked the Tao may attempt to drive again during her back roll animation but unless it's a j.2D~B or a j.4D~B that manage to hit it's too risky. On a semi-unrelated note, here's an other little tip for Taos that I got from personal match-up experience: it may occasionally occur that the Nu will throw her launcher as a reversal move at the end of your blockstring. That move even if blocked is a bother to deal with (you'll still get launched), so be sure to bait it out, it's not super fast so you can either CH 5B it or quick kara-throw. Just to make sure you don't get countered by the aforementioned launcher, try to avoid ending your blockstrings with a low unless you're able to quickly follow up with something else that is either a 5b or a 5c (maybe even 6a, but I never tried it on block, too risky). Of course, if you notice that the Nu player is really launcher-happy you might want to purposely leave little gaps in your blockstrings and punish that move to keep him honest.

[XDest]

On hit, Ronove. If somebody jabs you after you HIT with a 5D~B and you 5B, you're beat. Of course something is going to be safe on it, usually you expect a move you hit to give the advantage to you, this is not the case. On block it's 100% unsafe.

[Arcade Fire87]

I think what makes things so complicated, Ronove, is that XDest usually Tao's drive in a really complex manner, he does a lot of cancels and feinits with it, mixed with pressure strings and crossups (Possibly one of two Tao's on XBL that actually use it correctly). I don't want to say I'm mashing out 2C, but I do look for any oppurtunities in gaps for 2Cs for a CH. I really want to so badly counter her drives and mixups with Nu's 2A, but it's incredibly hard timing and realy, really not worth getting CH hit for 4000 damage plus oki pressure.

[Ronove]

Well that's why Nu vs Tao is considered 5:5 (or 4.5:5.5 in Nu's favor). Tao has a lot of tricks with her drive cancels (~c and ~b) to bait Nu's risky moves since most of the times a Nu player will opt to go straight for a 2C or 3C. What you do by looking for gaps is correct, the Nu player I train the matchup with does the same: defends the best he can and tries to sneak something between the holes in Tao's pressure game (and there will be holes, especially if you know how to IB her strings). A lot of Nus will usually 2C or use her antiair D stuff on reaction when they see Tao approaching with a drive from the air, it's all a matter of not getting baited too easily. @XDest 1 or 2 frames are still safe, no move in the game is that fast, so you can still block or tech-throw. Besides, Nu doesn't really have any amazingly fast pokes so that's why ~B on hit is still considered fine.

[XDest]

I never said it was unsafe on hit. I said if both players mashed jab after it hits, the opponent will win.

[Ronove]

Well, but you're not supposed to do that in first place. Atleast in CT.

[Arcade Fire87]

Yeah, Ronove, before I started playing XDest on a daily basis, I used to have an incredibly hard time playing against Tao, I used to feel the matchup was more 4-5 in Tao's favor, but I'm beginning to think it's fairly evenly matched now. I used to lose to some of the better Tao's, but I think right now Dest might be the only American Tao player on XBL that beats me (The really good players don't really go online though ), although that doesn't mean every other Tao online is instant win for me either. Right now, I pretty much base all my strategies against Tao off of XDest since he's the only really competent Tao player I know and play It's kinda a wierd adjustment for me as a Nu player, because I'm probably spending 75 percent of the fight up close against good Tao players. A lot of people online don't even realize Tao can crawl underneath 4DD after 5DD. It's because of this I can't use mixups like 5DD>wheel, or 5DD>4DD>TK cresent, or for that matter, even really pressure Tao from afar. Mix in the fact that Tao can do her DD inbetween Nu's drive, or that I can't use 5DD pressure while Tao has metter, so it becomes very, very risky. Last session with XDest I was mixing in some 4B Launchers with Nu. I didn't want to abuse it and become predictable, but it was a really nice counter to Tao ending combos with low hits, or trying to hit me out of Act pulsar when I try to add close up pressure. Overall though, this might be the only matchup, along with Bang, where I feel Nu is doing far more blocking and manuvering than she has to with the rest of the cast in BB

[XDest]

Actually Arcade, I think I told you this before. But the game autoblocks low if you go into crawl and are in a blockstring. That's why it's not a mixup. It's a weird glitch I think, so the wheel rarely hits even though I'm expecting the overhead.

[Ronove]

@ArcadeFire That's because Tao has a lot of tools to get around Nu's game from distance. However, if the Tao player wants to forcefully get in they have to risk sometimes even with drive cancel mixups, which is why this matchup is pretty even. It's a matter of how well the Nu is good at taking advantage of the gaps that Tao sometimes has to leave and the ability of the Tao player to capitalize on a chance given and start her pressure/mixup on oki. In this matchup Nu's swords are not supposed to be the primary source of damage dealing (well of course they're always good on oki if Tao has been knocked down), they are mostly used to force the Tao player to pick a path and possibly try to limit his options when he's closing in. But thankfully Tao has 3 jumps or 2 airdashes so it's all a matter on how wisely you use them to get in and avoid an anti-air 2C or any other thing that the Nu might be preparing.

[Arcade Fire87]

Xdest and I played a lot today, went pretty 50/50, he uploaded a fight on youtube, guess I'll post it (he crushes me in the second game though).

If you could find anything I could capatalize on, I'd definitely appreciate it. I'm not perfect, I do screw up a few oppurtunities for linking combos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUGoPymatz4

[Ronove]

Good stuff on round 2 by Xdest, 2b on oki was a nice move. Nice job with ~c feints as well although you really played it risky a few times, he could have punished you. Game 2, nice job with air counter-throw after his tech at the corner. I think you might need to pressure more with 66->5b though (reason is you can stay on Nu's face and also be in range for a nice kara-throw), although you can somehow get away if you "poke" with 3C from max range, it's such an easy move to IB that I think it's not worth the risk... @ArcadeFire I only gave it a quick look so forgive me if I don't list all the specific things (might do that tomorrw, it's already pretty late at night here): round 1, at the beginning, IB his 3C and punish hard. During round 2 and also round 3, you let yourself get hit by a clean 6C when you dashed back and tried to throw a sword. Don't forget Tao's 6C has a LOT of range and he can also 66 that move as (66C, just like he can 66 her 5B or her 2a by doing 63a) so keep that in mind. If you're backdashing and you fear he might poke you from the distance I think that TK crescent saber is what you're supposed to do (or atleast that's what my sparring partner does when playing midscreen). Or, dash and jump back, but then again all of this depends on what are the "habits" of the Tao player that you are facing. XDest seems to know you pretty well so I guess that's why he's throwing so many 6C without any CH hitconfirm first.

[XDest]

6C is pretty important vs Nu. Punishing backdashes and 2D attempts especially. As for using them in strings, 5B 6C is a bad habit of mine, I know it has a big hole - but that usually can be used to my advantage for conditioning for other 5B followups. 5C->6C doesn't really have a hole at all, you have to literally be mashing jab to get out of it. Either way, a DP will beat those, but of course Nu doesn't have one, another thing to take advantage of.

[Arcade Fire87]

Yeah, XDest and I have probably player over 100 games against one another so there's a lot of familarity Usually I have no issues backdashing out of the 6C, once in a while it tags me though. I was interested in what you meant to counter with TK, but I'd need more examples Haha, and DP would be nice! I'd probably mix some with my backdashes

[BoomBoxBeats]

My favorite move to do against Nu is to get close and [as player 2] 1D~B J.5C and string from there to air combo or berserker barrage. I still find it really hard to gauge her cancel dash move. I get grabbed almost everytime when someone grabs after that.

[BoomBoxBeats]

wow I just saw Xdest vid :0 nice using 5C to drive cancel feint and then using your extra jump to create an opening. May sound simple to others but I never really used it that much.