[CT] Taokaka vs. Jin

[Sheriff]

Ronove, you asked about an effective poke for Jin. I find that Tao's 2b is a godsend for this matchup. Like Hsein-Jo said it's great for closing distance against Jin. I also find that it either dodges under a fair amount of his overhead/mid attacks but it's also got great priority. Since it comes out pretty quick, you can poke a few times until your opponent goes to block low. The just follow up with a high mixup for punishment.

[XDest]

I'm still having vast problems with this matchup. I can't properly get in because his moves have huge hitboxes keeping me away. Yet if I defend one j.B, there's no way I'm getting out of the blockstring this century because of Tao's lack of DPs or Anti-Air. And of course if I try to pressure, there come the billion DPs from the Jin player. Hell if I defend one of anything except for one of his DPs. Hell, that's probably the main way I get damage in this matchup right now is punishing random DPs on block. I feel as if none of my normal tactics will ever work properly against this character, but I don't know what to do to anti him either.

[Ronove]

I'm still having vast problems with this matchup. I can't properly get in because his moves have huge hitboxes keeping me away. Yet if I defend one j.B, there's no way I'm getting out of the blockstring this century because of Tao's lack of DPs or Anti-Air. Hell if I defend one of anything except for one of his DPs.

Hell, that's probably the main way I get damage in this matchup right now is punishing random DPs on block.

I feel as if none of my normal tactics will ever work properly against this character, but I don't know what to do to anti him either.

j.B is a huge pain, my only suggestion is to attempt to IB that and the following move (if it's a jump-in they'll do a 5b, else it's the usual j.C).

Anyway, I realized that if Jin is doing a blockstring if you can't IB atleast barrier guarding will work since his best move up close is 5b, once he is out of range for that he'll either:

- crossup/jump-in j.B

- 5C

- 5D

- 236A

If he does 5C or 5D it's good news for you, as others suggested 2b is really effective whenever they're trying to poke with one of the two moves.

If it's a 236A, crawl and punish on reaction for a CH

Problem is if he tries the crossup j.B. As you said that move has a ridiculous hitbox (and ridiculous priority as well), best bet is to attempt again a IB->6a but it really requires some yomi/reflexes. In any case, most of the Jins will usually go for the poke if they've been pushed far. Just don't let them close in, their 5b is a real bother because it'll always allow to start their frame trap game.

Anyway, lately I've been having more success against Jin players because they tend to abuse the same things and get easily predictable. So far I only had real trouble against Jin who played nice mind games and resets every time they managed to get in and start their offense.

[GreyFlcn]

So what are good ways to start a combo on Jin? Since 6A's don't work that great. And 6B's / 236CC's just get countered.

[XDest]

I have a REALLY hard time against a Jin that knows what they're doing. - They can pressure you, but you cannot pressure them. - You will probably be in a blockstring half the game unless you get a lucky IB/backdash - 623A makes it impossible to get anywhere near him - Moving when he has 25 meter is even more impossible because of j.236D - They can force you into damage, but you only get damage if they screw up - j.B and j.C will beat all of your aerials, guaranteed. This character makes me rage so hard, how the hell is this matchup 6-4?

[Pirateyoshi]

I think matchups really depend on how well Tao can bait the opponent.

When you really think about it, Tao has no plus frame pressure, and no real frame traps. Going for the low&throw is what she does best and Jin regrettably has a lot of ways to defend against that kind of RTSD style.

Why isn't it 7-3 like Arakune? I would guess because Tao has trouble even getting near Arakune when cursed. It definitely has to be up there on the toughest matchups we have though.

[TaoFTW]

I have a REALLY hard time against a Jin that knows what they're doing.

- They can pressure you, but you cannot pressure them.

- You will probably be in a blockstring half the game unless you get a lucky IB/backdash

- 623A makes it impossible to get anywhere near him

- Moving when he has 25 meter is even more impossible because of j.236D

- They can force you into damage, but you only get damage if they screw up

- j.B and j.C will beat all of your aerials, guaranteed.

This character makes me rage so hard, how the hell is this matchup 6-4?

After playing nothing but Jin players in my local arcade, the matchup is 5.5/4.5 - or 5/5 - in Tao's favor. Both characters have a response to each other's tactics. But whenever I play against Jin, I usually get a few win streaks...unless it's veteru.

First, and foremost, you CAN pressure Jin with close range mixups. Just because your normals don't give you plus frames doesn't mean he can anticipate hi/lo mixups and crossups. Jin's answer to that is a reversal DP. Your answer to their reversal should be baiting for massive damage.

Jin's pressure game is very linear. 5b -> jc -> j.b -> j.c -> crossup j.d -> whatever else to force you blocking. Your answer is to barrier guard and just defend. He'll be pushed back far enough so he'll be forced to go for hi/lo mixups or 66 -> 5a/5b/b+c. Your response to his hi/low mixup is grabbing him in the air before his j.b animation comes out. You can't get out of 5a pressure strings. But if he starts throwing some risky normals, like 5d or 5c, then that's your opportunity to Just Defend and jump away.

Jin's answer to your jumps is a DP. Your answer to a DP is blocking. :o

The only time his pressure poses some sort of a threat is when you're in the corner. At that moment, you're likely going to get a guard break. But there are preemptive measures to prevent stuff like that from happening...

...like jumping.

Jin's air normals are only a threat when you're below him. You have the advantage when you're two jumps above his head. Doing that will cause average Jin players to do two things: (1) jump more than usual and (2) throw more DPs. You can triple jump over Jin's j.236b. His air normals, particularly j.b and j.c, will beat you at midscreen, but not when you're face to face. If you suspect a jump cape normal, just IB it and sneak in a j.c.

"They can force you into damage, but you only get damage if they screw up."

On the contrary, you can force big damage when Jin players throw out risky moves. For example, you can IB DPs and punish afterwards. Any Jin player who spams high risk normals or specials are asking for a beating.

[GreyFlcn]

So from the sound of it. One way to really punish Jin is with 2B, 6A[1], JC, j.D~B, taunt, (loop) Or with Crawl, 5B, 6C, 236CC, (loop) (Or loop combo off of an air grab, or a backwards grab) What's a reliable combo to use on Jin after a Neutral Grab? Considering how heavy he is, I'm guessing it probably involves a j.4D

[Ronove]

I rarely use the neutral grab, but generally you do a j.4D~B (~A if you're cornering him) and follow with OTG string > drive loop.

[lurch_E_bean]

What's a reliable combo to use on Jin after a Neutral Grab? Considering how heavy he is, I'm guessing it probably involves a j.4D

I've got three combos I use off a neutral throw (not in the corner):

5b+c -> j.4d~b -> 5b -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb

5b+c -> j.66 -> (j.c -> 5d~6) x3 -> j.a -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb

5b+c -> j.66 -> j.c -> j.236b -> j.2d~b -> 5b -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb

You can loop the second one an additional time against certain characters (same characters that you can do the horizontal loop off 3c on an extra time), but Jin will only get you three.

I'm not completely positive how well the last one works on Jin, and it seems to be the toughest for some reason. I usually use that one on Noel, Tao, and Rachael, because the second combo doesn't work on them. Probably best to stick with the first two.