TaoFTW Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Jin needs some medication. This thread is dedicated to finding good strategies against the ice cart man.
MacArthur Blunts Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Jin: Crouchwalk is good... Goes under icecar, 5C, other ice thing, sometimes scarf if he does it too high... 5B his forward kick looking thing for combo, don't try to beat scarf in this air it's really good. get out of ice... Other than that just watch for his overhead and break throws. Neutral situations should be you actively baiting shoryu and dicking around just outside of his 5C range so he's gotta throw riskier stuff.. anyD~C (bait shoryu) CH 2D~B taunt combo 2D~B falling j.C dash 5B->6A(1)->taunt combo for shoryu bait... you can IB icecar followup and get 5B into taunt combo, IBing the other ice thing doesn't put you at that bad of a disadvantage so 2A is pretty good or 2D to get out... D shoryu can be IB'ed and then crouchwalk under the followup for CH awesomeness. really guys one good crouchwalk into CH B->6C should discourage a good jin from using stuff that can be crouchwalked, if they aren't getting discouraged it only takes a few CH B's to get him deadified. Watch how jin is guarding as well. If he is FDing your B, 2A, 2B stuff it's time to karathrow him or D~B. If he is IBing, get ready to deal with a shoryu. Throwing 6B in this match isn't really a good idea due to jin's abare off his counterpokes. I'd much rather just frametrap and low-throw-crossup mixup the guy. you get at least a third life off IB CH 5C for shoryu punish, so rely on that. air to air isn't that good vs him unless you're doing jump back j.C. don't really try to anti-air him simply because we don't really have a good standing anti air. It will be much better to just avoid his scarf and go from there. if he airdashes at you, you can D~B to get under him or simply just dash under him and poke with 5C when he lands. also, 2B will move you forward and you're really low-profile while you do it, so getting out of the corner with that when he jumps at you is golden. I'll use lots of D~A or D~C at a good range vs him to try and bait out a 5C, shoryu, or another poke. Also FD breaking works just as well. You're going to want to punish jin's moves while he is in recovery most of the time in this matchup so set up a zoning plan with jump back j.A, falling j.C and go from there. like I said, lots of D fakes to train him...
Final_Round Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 this is what i was really looking for.... man... i mean.. i get soooo pwnd by good jin's it's a shame... dp all day.. so, i use most of what's here but i still get beat by that damn icicle surf board mess. i will try and post some vids of me playing him so, everyone could see... and critic what i am doing right and wrong..
Shiri Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Sorry to start this thread off with newb issues, but for some reason I can't seem to beat Jin spacing his C attacks properly and like...sekkaijin...I can't get close enough to poke him, my C attacks (even if it looks like I spaced it correctly) just get my arm hit while obviously I don't hit his sword, and drive just gets stuffed. Also if I ever get frozen I just get rolled over because I get frozen again as soon as I mash out. Ugh.
RoyalSpade Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 a really easy way to beat ice car is after block you're basicaly gauranteed a 5B which'll lead into longer combos
D__T Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 I tried crawling under ice car, and I noticed you kind of get pulled along with it. It seems that when I try to use 2A to hit him out of this, sometimes I get hit, and sometimes I hit him. Is it better to try to punish, or should I wait until the move ends (can you crawl under the 2nd hit part, or does that not happen if he whiffs?)
XDest Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 3C > 2D~6 > Combo seems to interrupt after crawling vs all icecars. But I've only tested that in training.
canned.air Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 when you crawl under an ice car, you do get pulled along with him. however, your best bet is to wait for the animation where his car shatters 'cause he didn't hit anything. when that happens and he's getting back onto the ground, punish with 3C to a drive loop. if you do it too early, you get hit with the ice car. too late, and he'll probably mash his buttons to do something else.
RedTao Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Urgh, I'm having serious trouble with this matchup. I try to follow MacArthur's advice but I'm no IB wizard and eventually get rolled. The problem is that once he has me in his rushdown there's just no escape. The match starts, we dance around a bit, maybe I can even get some combos in, but the moment he tags me with something it's over and I'm stuck in the corner. Eventually I'm about to die and I burst, and we dance around a bit again, but then he tags me with something again and I'm back in the corner, this time with no burst, and I lose. And Tao's like the best in the game at escaping pressure! Where are the gaps in Jin's strings? What in this crazy man's whirlwind of ice, kicks, and swords is vulnerable on block??
Just_here2 Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Most Jins I play eventually do a j.B in their corner trap. Tao can 2B or 3 under that.
Sileh Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Here's an example of our very own RinHara5saki in a match using the 22C counter to Jin's Ice Car: (around 1:52 in the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6yb6PZCja8
TSiggs Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Thank god for this thread, the crawl works great against the ice car!!! Is the best thing to do after a 3c into drive loop?
XDest Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Thank god for this thread, the crawl works great against the ice car!!! Is the best thing to do after a 3c into drive loop? Here's 3 3C combos possible, all are within 200 damage of each other, ranging from 3300 to 3500 I think. 3C 5D~B (no hit) 5B 5C 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB 3C 5D~B (hit) 5B 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB 3C 5D~6 j.C 236B 2D~B (hit) 5B 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB You might be able to get more. But those options allow for good damage, ground game, are pretty universal hitbox-wise and are pretty easy to get off consistently.
TSiggs Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Awesome, thanks XDest! Going to work on these in training mode tonight!!
faultydefense Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 mcarther mentioned it before but I think crawl is absolutely godly in this match-up under his projectiles, ice car, a/b uppercuts, 2nd hit of d uppercut, hard to catch with his j.B, 5C (may be range dependant, not sure) but also his 5D!!! in jin's strings, A > B > C > [insert tao crawl] if he 5D's u go under it for punish, if he jumped you can get out of the way, projectile/ice car go under, 6D/C you have time to react and poke/block. Just watch for 3C but if u force him to start 3Cing then he's ending his strings earlier and you're not getting guard crushed
Ronove Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Guys, I'm having quite a few problems with this matchup. I can't seem to effectively pressure Jin, and also I think my blockstrings aren't good enough. This is due to Jin's 5b (the kick that hits twice), and his 5d which has a freaking huge hitbox (doesn't even allow me any attempt to crossup 2d~b->j.c). Both these help him score counterhits which lead to his painful combos and also allow him to set his corner game which is a pain in the butt to deal with. Couple that with the fact that online sometimes the combos on him will whiff because of his hitbox, and this matchup has really gotten almost frustrating for me. Any suggestion, advice, whatever, is welcome.
XDest Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 I'm having problems with a certain pressure style Jin. I've only seen a couple of these types. Because Tao doesn't have a good anti air and 5B doesn't have enough range, one of Jin's jumping moves seems to be able to beat anything she has out after one of his blockstrings. And 6A doesn't combo properly because its an awkward angle. Any ideas?
Ronove Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 It's most likely their j.B (which is also a good crossup move), and j.C I'm having trouble with it as well. So far the only answer I found was to simply backdash away from his crossup/jump-in attempt and then react accordingly to what they do after that. Usually if they see you backdashing they're probably expecting you to counterattack once they land so they might be trying to throw either a 5D or 2D, so be ready to block and punish. It takes a bit of guessing and reading versus good Jin players, they have a lot of choices they can go from when pressuring you. x_x Personally it's the most difficult matchup for me (which is not good since there are A LOT of Jin on the net, heh). I even fare way better against V-13 than I do against Jin.
lurch_E_bean Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Here's a fun fact: Tao's taunt can knock Jin off his icecar. From this video, we have this combo (third to last, interestingly vs. Jin): Opponent in the air: Taunt CH -> 214d -> j.2d~b -> Taunt -> 214d -> j.2d~b -> 5c -> 2d~5 -> 5d~c -> 5d~a -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb [6000] I sure as hell can't pull that combo off yet, but anyone who can pull this off against an icecar online and posts a video is my new hero. Bonus points for a ragequit.
GreyFlcn Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I even fare way better against V-13 than I do against Jin. Well that's saying a lot. But then again, Tao gets out of the worst of Nu's keep-away game.
XDest Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Tao is rated as 3.5 vs Jin and 4.5 vs Nu. So, it looks like you're not the only one who thinks that.
Ronove Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I suspected so. That said, it's not an impossible matchup, but Tao can't really make a mistake in this matchup since Jin can comfortably punish in the most painful way and then proceed to set their painful oki game (especially once they corner you). I've been wondering one thing though. Is there atleast one poke move we can use? Is 5C really our only possible poking tool? Since j.C gets negated by his DPs (or his 5D ). I guess we need to bait their DPs but smart Jin players won't fall for it and simply wait for us to make the first move and try to sneak something between our blockstrings... Heh. If any Tao has good success in this matchup, I'd like to hear their strategies.
Hsien_Jo Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I don't know if he did this on purpose or just trying to range me, but when I was fighting against a pretty ok Jin guy, i was full screen away and he threw an ice dagger, I crawled under it because I love bein special, and he followed up with his range super and I ate both hits and felt real stupid, and had to msg him for great set up lol so don't crawl predictably like I do sometimes. If u crawl under his Ice Cream Truck Move (aka Ice Car), If u raise up right before he lands, you can counter throw or counter hit with 5B into whatever you want. I like to try 5B into 6C, if you do it immediately sometimes it might miss so you may need to hold it. Other times he will bounce on the wall behind you, and you can 6C him another time or two, makes for a funny mini loop. I practiced crawling under Ice Cream Truck in combo block string and you can crawl under it without having to instant block much and counter with 5B so, I guess look for predictable Ice Car block strings. I don't know if high lvl Jin's use it on block. I've been wondering one thing though. Is there atleast one poke move we can use? Is 5C really our only possible poking tool? Since j.C gets negated by his DPs (or his 5D ). I guess we need to bait their DPs but smart Jin players won't fall for it and simply wait for us to make the first move and try to sneak something between our blockstrings... It doesn't always lead to major damage and the range is shorter, sometimes (especially during block strings), I like to poke with 2B. Since you can crawl under alot of Jin's moves its helped me before. When he tried his A and B DP's I just kicked him in the ankle and did 5C into cat spirit 1, into Drive mix-up. Since 2B does get you closer to the opponent I think its good to use sometimes to get closer to start mix up's or get a throw, but not to abuse it so someone can read you from it. Btw I've seen some Tao possible face pics before, but the one in ur avatar is one of the one's that looks believeable, because of that smile shes doing
Ronove Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 They may use the A version of Ice Car between their blockstring sometime, but if they use the B and C version I just crawl->3C->combo, and they stop doing it.
GreyFlcn Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Another thing to keep in mind with this matchup. Jin is one of four other characters in the game (Jin, v13, Rachel, Litchi) Which your 6A does not connect at all on a crouching character. Also one thing I find from experience is that Jins which you pressure a lot, will simply whip out that invincible crouching blade upper cut move And laugh at you as you tech them. One thing to keep in mind though, unless he uses that "spinny" holstered sword attack, or a jumpbehind.B/C/D a crouching Jin can't land any hits on you if you are crouch blocking. Since besides though two approaches, he has no good overhead crossups. But considering your 6B and 236C are too slow.... Neither do you....
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