Brave Hippo Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 Well we didn't have one so might as well get one up eh? Okay so lets talk about Rachel. I honestly dont know a thing about this match up and although Rachel's come few and far between, they do come. So, your thoughts on this match up gentlemen?
VR-Raiden Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Of what I've tried, 3C seems like the best option for killing George. Kills him in 1 hit and you can JC. You can punish the chair with 5C (CH) > 6C combo, or anything you feel like. 6A will beat her falling down move (j.2C?) 5B at max range misses her crouch, and Gauntlet Hades tends to miss it too so be careful of that. TK GH still hits her crouch though I believe. Careful of that fork attack she has, the one with the CH stun that lasts for like 10 years. Nothing yet on how to play the match specifically. Haven't played enough of them.
Tarnish Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Of what I've tried, 3C seems like the best option for killing George. Kills him in 1 hit and you can JC. You can punish the chair with 5C (CH) > 6C combo, or anything you feel like. 6A will beat her falling down move (j.2C?) 5B at max range misses her crouch, and Gauntlet Hades tends to miss it too so be careful of that. TK GH still hits her crouch though I believe. Careful of that fork attack she has, the one with the CH stun that lasts for like 10 years. Nothing yet on how to play the match specifically. Haven't played enough of them. I fought a bit of Rachel this weekend. I still don't know much of the match either, but Tiger Knee Gauntlet Hades after a properly spaced sweep works a bit better than Ragna's overhead mixups when fishing for 6B. Seems a bit hard to space Rachel, and I don't have a clue what to do about her pressure game if she gets in and starts that retarded overhead mix up. Her 6A, whatever that Cat Uppercut anti-air is anyway, is a really good poke. It's not just for anti-air. It's another reason to watch yourself when performing 5B, because she can hit twice with it and go into a combo.
Zero000 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Learn how to instant guard the multi hits that Rachel throws at you (George/spike thing/thunder) so you can get meter. It's nice to have meter if you get yourself cornered and need to use the counter assault to get out if that dumb overhead mixup and george and pumpkins and crap all over you. Use barrier if necessary. Like all the matchups against the top tier, watch your guard meter. Watch your run-inscause that fork attack is essentially the better verison of your 5b, it's a far poke that stops alot of stuff. Same with 6A/Cat upper (see above) I haven't figured out when ragna can DP against her rushdown. Even if you instant guard her spike drop (i think j.2c) she has enough frame advantage to keep going. IM NOT SURE, maybe I just didn't spam out DP fast enough. Oh well Edit: Oh yeah. About hitting George. 3c seems like the goto option, but just watch out when you're baited into it cause 3c takes a long time to recover. It's really risky when there's a pumpkin out as well cause you're defintally going to get hit if you sweep that thing. 6d also works to kill it if you want that range, same idea about recovering though. 6c sorta kills it since the first hit touches it, and the followup gets rid of it. I think you're able to dash cancel the the 2nd hit after the frog dies. Everything else takes two hits to kill George.
VR-Raiden Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Edit: Oh yeah. About hitting George. 3c seems like the goto option, but just watch out when you're baited into it cause 3c takes a long time to recover. It's really risky when there's a pumpkin out as well cause you're defintally going to get hit if you sweep that thing. 3C is jump cancel-able so the recovery isn't a problem. but yeah I'm sure they can still hit you for doing it if you don't do it in a safe situation
OutlawAssassin Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Fighting Rachel is about calling the repetitiveness of what she must do before she can start rushing you down. Try to stay mid screen if possible and the moment she summons pumpkin on the ground HF for a nice CH. If she summons in the air GH if she is low enough. 6A is a good option for pumpkins that might be a bit to high since you'll have upper body invincibility. If you have the pressure on her try not to jump as much as you would against other match up. Her 6A will win if she is a decent player. Your only option on stopping the pumpkin after being blown toward you is 214D since it also has projectile properties but because of the the hit range of it is most likely going to whiff. If in BK 214D then stop almost everything she has.
BADX Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 This is all helping but those damn pumpkins. . . i hates them, Soniti has no problem making me his bitch when his RA and my RG meet.
D_Dollars Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 i have so much trouble with this match up. her pressure is just to godly. and i have absoulutely no idea what to do once rachels start launching pumpkin and the rods while using the wind to keep you back. it's like i almost feel stuck and i need help on dealing with her overhead also.
excelence Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I haven't figured out when ragna can DP against her rushdown. Even if you instant guard her spike drop (i think j.2c) she has enough frame advantage to keep going. IM NOT SURE, maybe I just didn't spam out DP fast enough. Oh well If u Ib the j.2c, you had a guaranteed ID counter, but i think the gap is less than 3f Edit: Oh yeah. About hitting George. 3c seems like the goto option, but just watch out when you're baited into it cause 3c takes a long time to recover. It's really risky when there's a pumpkin out as well cause you're defintally going to get hit if you sweep that thing. 6d also works to kill it if you want that range, same idea about recovering though. 6c sorta kills it since the first hit touches it, and the followup gets rid of it. I think you're able to dash cancel the the 2nd hit after the frog dies. Everything else takes two hits to kill George. Dash cancel just for Killing George is very dangerous imo, as we can't block right away after DC'ing And question... Ragna j.d whiff her crouching hit box , do GH usually fast enough to catch crouching Rachel?
Prototype909 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 I still say this is the stupidest matchup for Ragna, Rachel can literally crouch barrier block the whole match and be safe except for TK GH. I mean, 6B comes out way to slow to be effective in this matchup and 6D -> j.D places you too far away. What a dumb ass move, making a character immune to OVERHEADS. And then if you do manage to get Rachel into a combo, chances are it won't work do to her small hitbox. Wtf.
A.X.I.S. Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 it sucks but you should have a problem with getting in on her, at least for me it is, i have to run stop run stop everything and then wait for a opening...its ok i can manage though.
Prototype909 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 it sucks but you should have a problem with getting in on her, at least for me it is, i have to run stop run stop everything and then wait for a opening...its ok i can manage though. It's not so bad as long as you can navigate past the pumpkin and frog + cannon spam. If you can IB the pumpkin it becomes pretty easy to get in, too bad it's hard to actually do anything with that opening.
A.X.I.S. Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 yeah thats my problem, navigating her fun spams, i'm trying to barrier brake and whatnot so i can block the 236A cannon...sucks to do online though.
FlyingVe Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 I've played a few good rachel's recently and while the match-up is going to suck no matter what you do there are a couple of things I've taken to doing. ID really shines in this match, many of rachel's pressure strings have almost Tager style holes in them that you can ID (my favorite being between the two 5C's and lobelia [5b>5b>5C+D>5C --<<Insert inferno divider here>>-- >B lobelia]) Also, rachel player's will usually play very conservatively and will often block when given the choice as a result 6D and dead-spike shenanigans tend to work pretty well.
FlyingVe Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 I just discovered that Rachel can low profile under DbD... ~>: (
AurosuunFlame Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 I just discovered that Rachel can low profile under DbD... ~>: ( Gauntlet Hades, too, apparently. It's terrible trying to unlearn Gauntlet Hades. I'm so used to throwing it out when I'm sure it'll hit, then it just outright misses her every single time because she crouches. Her dodging DbD is also infuriating. In a way, for this particular match up, I feel like I'm trying to learn that if it isn't 6B, overheads won't work & DbD too, just because Rachel is so guddd. Pic related to match up.
FlyingVe Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 You can still get her with TK GH. The best way to get damage on Rachel is just to keep pressuring her. She has very limited options to get out of Ragna's pressure. If you can bait one out, it's big damage. Of course being able to get in and pressure her is a monumental undertaking.
A.X.I.S. Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 when I'm ragna I have no idea how to get in on her...I even lost a few because they spam lobelia and I couldn't IB and get in. -_-
FlyingVe Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 You get in on her the same way you would with Tager. Lot's of jumping, blocking, and just inching your way forward. The lobelias are really only a temporary defense for Rachel (part of why she sucks in CS), it's the pumpkin you have to watch our for, and I can't help you with that.
Gil Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 Gauntlet Hades, too, apparently. It's terrible trying to unlearn Gauntlet Hades. I'm so used to throwing it out when I'm sure it'll hit, then it just outright misses her every single time because she crouches. Her dodging DbD is also infuriating. In a way, for this particular match up, I feel like I'm trying to learn that if it isn't 6B, overheads won't work & DbD too, just because Rachel is so guddd. Pic related to match up. Oh dear, now you're raging here, Jade.
AurosuunFlame Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 You can still get her with TK GH. The best way to get damage on Rachel is just to keep pressuring her. She has very limited options to get out of Ragna's pressure. If you can bait one out, it's big damage. Of course being able to get in and pressure her is a monumental undertaking. This is definitely true. It's fun being able to pressure her like crazy without being threatened much. I did not know TK GH hit Rachel as she was ducking, though. That I've got to try. Two questions, though. You can only TK GH after a jump cancellable move, right? And can you TK GH her in the middle of a block string if the move before it is jump cancellable? I hate having to use 6B as an overhead when I can't get into range of using it ffff. Oh dear, now you're raging here, Jade. For you, Gil, all my fury and hate towards Rachel manifests in the form of 720. Get off my bridge, you troll.
toanenadiz Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 You can only TK GH after a jump cancellable move, right? And can you TK GH her in the middle of a block string if the move before it is jump cancellable? You can TK GH whenever you are able to jump including, but not limited to, after a jump cancellable move. And the answer to your second question is yes.
Kain Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 Generally, your pressure should be all about the air combos against Rachel. Land a hit, that should go straight into an air combo to take advantage of the fact that Rachel can't charge wind while in the air. You especially want to rush when she doesn't have a full wind bar, because then she can't wind a pumpkin out when she feels like it, and her only option at that point is CH 6B. The real problem with Rachel IMO starts the moment she goes straight on the offense, because if you block wrong, you eat tons of damage as a result. You generally want to be blocking low until she gets to 2B, because then she can JC it into j.3DC, which is a stupid good overhead. It's almost always a given that Rachel has frog and/or pumpkin out, at which point you want to ID out of her blockstring when you have a good opportunity, lest you end up getting guard crushed because you blocked too long. (Most of the advice comes from a pro Rachel called juk3unit or something on XBL.)
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